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Blastfrog

I hate Halls of the Damned

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E2M6 is that bad. Seriously. Really though, I find it to be the most dull, uninspiring, bland, and flat-out bad level in the original Doom. It has absolutely no height variation, and is just a collection of dark hallways with monster closets. Not to mention is was absolutely fugly. I'm not exactly a fan of Petersen's work as it is, but just this level alone makes me hate him.

In other news, I retract my earlier statements that Doom 1 is better than Doom 2. While I would say that I prefer Doom 1's atmosphere, looking at it objectively, it does have inferior level design compared to Doom 2.

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Truthfully, there are that many thematic shifts in Halls of the Damned that I never even realised just how flat the map really is, and I'm sort of intrigued as to why you consider it to be an uninspiring level. The fake exit, toxic intro, baron closets, map layout and key powered non-linearity of the level provides the necessary pizzazz that I might consider it an interesting and entertaining romp.

But each to his own. I'll admit I'm not a fan of the star* and tek maze beyond the wooden labyrinth, though.

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I'd beg to differ, my man. Not about the Halls, which can go suck a sweaty testicle (only Doom 1 level I actually can't stand playing), but Doom 2 levels being overall better. I found the open, city levels often missed the mark, as did others -- Nirvana, Tricks and Traps, The Factory and Gotcha! were levels I wouldn't miss if they disappeared entirely.

If it helps with Halls of the Damned, I usually save my plasma cells for the escape out of the damn thing. Only the red key area takes any amount of time here, but it's still a terrible level. And the first time I got that fake exit? FFFFFFFF. No.

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I disagree about "Halls". I have always enjoyed that map and do not recognise it from the OP description.

I also disagree with Doom2 maps > then Doom maps. I have always found Doom's maps to be far superior to those of Doom2. I even remember being disappointed (only mildly mind you) with Doom2's maps the very first time I played it. What makes Doom2 for me is not the maps but the extra bestiary and the SSG. The maps, IMO, for the most part aren't really worth playing multiple times - unlike those in doom.wad.

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Sodaholic said:

It has small amounts of height variation


FTFY

IMHO E2M6 is a good map if you like mazes. My favorite thing about the map was the music

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I can't say much for Tricks And Traps (I honestly kinda hate that map too) but I genuinely like Nirvana, Gotcha, and especially The Factory.

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If this topic is about uninspired Doom levels, I'd have to say that Doom 2 MAP22 is fairly poor. Also, there's something about Romero's maps from Doom 2, except MAP15 and MAP20, that makes them feel too short and incomplete. Maps like 17 and 26 look small and ghetto to me, like flea markets, with lots of rusted metal plating and bars, as well as acid stew and noisy demons. Lots of secrets to hide your wares from the police too.

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General Rainbow Bacon said:

E2M6 is probably one of the best maps in Doom 1, and it's my favorite from episode 2.

I don't know you.

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Okay, let me explain. It's a level where there a lot of exploration to be done and almost half the map can be left alone. It's got that ooziness that made SOH great. The music is creepy and awesome. The level as a whole brings a sense of danger that the earlier maps of SOH don't.

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This thread has made me realise that there isn't a Doom 1/Ultimate Doom map that I dislike really.

Doom 2 on the other hand has Industrial Zone and Gotcha, two of my least favourite levels of any game ever. And then there's Icon of Sin.

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DoomUK said:

Doom 2 on the other hand has Industrial Zone and Gotcha, two of my least favourite levels of any game ever.

Is it the chaingunners in Industrial Zone? I mean, they're annoying, but come on... you could be playing Slough Of Despair.

I'll really never understand the Doom1 > Doom2 opinion in general, especially considering how the complaints about Doom2 seeming halfassed and missing the mark apply doubly so to most of Inferno.

Gotcha is awesome.

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Is there any level in Doom, Doom2 and Final Doom that isn't loved or hated in equal measure.

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E2M6 is a map that has too many memorable moments for me to dislike. The crusher-usage, the fake exit, the striking opening... Those are all great. I mean, yeah, the actual layout leaves something to be desired, but goddamn does it stick out in my mind whenever I think of E2.

As for the Doom 2 vs Doom debate, I've always maintained the opinion that Doom 2 is superior by a good margin. The map design is vastly superior to anything not E1 and the increased monster selection gave the a much-needed variety to the gameplay. I can say, with total confidence, that I would have never even considered mapping had the arch-vile, revenant, and co. never been brought into existence. It would have been totally redundant to play, otherwise.

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I totally like doom 2 maps more. They have bigger height variation. They sometimes have big, cool open areas (maybe Mount Erebus has too, but it's still pretty flat like the rest of doom 1 maps). They have totally special layouts and ideas like the crusher, gotcha or tricks and traps. Every doom 2 map is different, while doom 1 maps, especially E1 and E4 are pretty similiar. The only exceptions IMO are that map in e4 with stronghold and teleporter moving to four different places and e2m1, e1m8, e1m9, e2m8, e2m9, e3m9 (that are pretty cool), e1m1 (that is a holy map) and The Inmost Dens (doom 2 map I actually dislike).

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The Inmost Dens is great, you be trippin'. So is Mount Erebus, for that matter. I love the open ones with a clear sense of where-to-go but a thousand options for how to get there.

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esselfortium said:

the complaints about Doom2 seeming halfassed and missing the mark apply doubly so to most of Inferno.

Yep.

But episodes 1, 2 and 4 are rather solid.

Also, Halls of the Damned is a great map. Height variation alone is as meaningful a yardstick as STC when it comes to judge a map's worth. Halls of the Damned is a strange, chaotic, twisted map; a surreal environment which is how they conveyed Hell's corruption of Deimos.


Also the Inmost Dens are very cool and one of the most atmospheric maps in Doom II. Mount Erebus is a ugly mess, however.

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Without Mt. Erebus, you wouldn't have Doom 2's open-world maps.

I'd consider E2M6 to be a far better map than E2M3 or E2M7, in any case. The early-development holdovers are the dullest parts of The Shores of Hell, and functionally are about on par with Slough of Despair for lack of interest and height variation. Complain about those instead.

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esselfortium said:

for lack of interest and height variation. Complain about those instead.

I won't complain about lack of height variation, since I'm a Wolfenstein 3D fanboy.

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I actually like E2M6 and even moreso the psx doom version, I really don't see any reason to hate it.

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Vermil said:

Is there any level in Doom, Doom2 and Final Doom that isn't loved or hated in equal measure.

E1M1. Pretty hard to hate the first level many if not most of us stepped into.

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DoomUK said:

E1M1. Pretty hard to hate the first level many if not most of us stepped into.

That zig-zaggy bridge... Good times.

Subjectively, I can't help but love this level, and frequently come back to it when I think my own designs are getting too complicated.

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esselfortium said:

Gotcha is awesome.

I think Gotcha might easily be one of my favorite doom levels of all time, honestly. Fun song, and an interesting layout, complete with the amusing bits like the bosses and everything.

I liked E2M6. A bit weird in places, but I think it's pretty fun. Not sure I like the music they put on this level though.

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E2M6 competes with E2M5 for the largest, most involved E2 map, similar to how E1M6 competes with E1M7.

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No Sodaholic, the Halls of the Damned hate you.
And then Sodaholic was a Damned of the Halls.

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