Why the disemboweled baron corpses?

[DoomUK]

What do you think the story behind this wall texture is? Why are they hanging there much like the human corpses are? What did they do to upset Satan?

[Blastfrog]

Perhaps these Barons betrayed the Demonic Oath™, or maybe they were just killed for fun, since demons are sporadic and evil after all. I imagine that Hell in the Doom universe is a very chaotic and lawless place, with the only order being that of social ranks. Otherwise, demons just run around killing each other and humans that end up there when they feel like it.

[purist]

It's to add a touch of foreboding to the Cyberdemon.

In E1M8 there are hung and disembowled human corpses in the baron's chambers. Barons become slightly more commonplace enemies throughout E2 (particulary in UV) so the E2 boss has too heighten the dread.

Seeing these at the start of E2M8 is supposed to make the player wonder what the Hell has done this? Before being confronted by the Cyberdemon.

...Just realised I answered this question very literally, when you're probably grasping for some fanfic... oh well it might be useful to someone.

Incidently, one of my favourite textures. I've always thought it's a shame it's not in Doom 2.

[Yukarin]

He probably got caught touching another barons baroness and ended up in this predicament

[BaronOfStuff]

He laughed when the Cyberdemon missed.

The Cyberdemon didn't miss with the second or third rockets though.

[printz]

There's also a backstory on this texture in the Doom novels.

[Maes]

Interesting. I never noticed the large scratch mark on its left leg, and what appears to be a pierced hole in its belly, almost as if made by a rocket...

[fraggle]

purist said:

It's to add a touch of foreboding to the Cyberdemon.

[...]

Seeing these at the start of E2M8 is supposed to make the player wonder what the Hell has done this? Before being confronted by the Cyberdemon.

This would be my answer as well. The Barons of Hell were the bosses at the end of the previous episode; having them strung up like this instantly takes things up to the next level.

In story terms, I imagine that perhaps the Barons were supposed to have dealt with the player by now and have now suffered the consequences of their failure to do so.

[Blastfrog]

fraggle said:

In story terms, I imagine that perhaps the Barons were supposed to have dealt with the player by now and have now suffered the consequences of their failure to do so.

But there's four of them on the walls, not two. Besides, the player killed them and they remained on Phobos, so they couldn't have been the ones on the walls at the top of the tower. They split in half from the waist down, whereas the ones on the walls have holes in their abdomens, but are still in one piece; their injuries don't match.

Unless you mean ones that the player didn't kill in the earlier E2 levels.

[Phobus]

Basically what purist said: They're there to make the player go "What could destroy those tough bastards so thoroughly?"

[RightField]

The first time I played this level, when I was young, I thought each button would revive a baron and you'd have to fight it in that room.

[NiuHaka]

purist said:

It's to add a touch of foreboding to the Cyberdemon.

And you will notice that there is a Cyberdemon skull on the door at the beginning of E3M8. I've never confirmed this to actually be a Cyberdemon skull and those other miscellaneous skulls leave room for doubt but the head and horns bare the same shape.

[Vermil]

NiuHaka said:

And you will notice that there is a Cyberdemon skull on the door at the beginning of E3M8. I've never confirmed this to actually be a Cyberdemon skull and those other miscellaneous skulls leave room for doubt but the head and horns bare the same shape.

Yes, though the texture is also used on the first doors of E3M1/9.

[geekmarine]

In the most literal sense, I agree that they were put there to give the player a feel for how powerful the upcoming Cyberdemon boss was. My personal take on it, though, is that they were sacrificed in a satanic ritual in order to summon the Cyberdemon.

[ReX]

purist said:

It's to add a touch of foreboding to the Cyberdemon.

My sentiments, exactly. Here's an excerpt from Tower of Babel:

She was in a small, four-cornered green marble chamber with recesses in each wall, and a short pedestal in the center with switches all around. But the symmetry of the room was the last thing on her mind as she stared aghast at the wall recesses. There, splayed against the stone, were the very beasts that had been the stuff of her waking nightmares for the past few days. "Goat Guys" she used to call them, for they had powerful, hairy, and hoofed legs, and heads that were like large goat skulls. Their torsos and arms were those of a man -- a wrestler in his prime perhaps, or a heavy-weight boxer. She had grown to hate yet admire them, because, like her, they were tough and relentless, warriors to the bitter end.

And yet here they were, chained and eviscerated like they were haggard beggars that had dared ask for a seat at an emperor's banquet. Their throats were ripped open and their guts hung out, the green blood oozing from the wounds. One was missing most of an arm, another a foot, and yet another lacked anything below its wrist. What could possibly do this to them? she wondered with some trepidation. "Something big!" came back the reply from the deepest recesses of her brain. "Something big and EVIL!"

[PRIMEVAL]

They compliment the green brick, makes a nice contrast.

[RjY]

I seem to recall reading something that said they were placed in E2M9 as a hint to the player that he should be trying to get the monsters to fight each other (dead barons in caco room, dead cacos in baron room)

(In fact I suspect it might have been in that Sandy Petersen interview linked from the bottom of E2M9: Fortress of Mystery (Doom) but that seems now to be a dead link)

[fraggle]

Sodaholic said:

But there's four of them on the walls, not two. Besides, the player killed them and they remained on Phobos, so they couldn't have been the ones on the walls at the top of the tower. They split in half from the waist down, whereas the ones on the walls have holes in their abdomens, but are still in one piece; their injuries don't match.

Unless you mean ones that the player didn't kill in the earlier E2 levels.

Yeah, I appreciate it doesn't completely make sense, it's just what the imagery makes me think of.

If you assume that the Barons are like "lieutenants" lower in rank than the Cyberdemon, I guess you could assume that there were two Barons in charge of the Phobos base (which you killed), and then perhaps four more that were in charge of the Deimos base - by the time you reach E2M8 they've failed in their instructions to stop you. Or perhaps they failed their boss in other ways. I imagine the Cyberdemon perhaps executing them for their incompetence like Darth Vader does in The Empire Strike Back.

Whatever the explanation in story terms, foreboding is definitely the reason they're there in the game.

[Phml]

Killing and hanging allies merely to scare/impress the doomguy, or even just because, is exactly the sort of thing I would expect from evil demons. They're so cruel and barbaric they'll kill their own on a whim and blah blah blah.

Giving it a more rational if inhuman reason kind of takes away from the feeling you're dealing with an alien, monstrous, demonic force IMHO.

[Quasar]

Phml said:

Killing and hanging allies merely to scare/impress the doomguy, or even just because, is exactly the sort of thing I would expect from evil demons. They're so cruel and barbaric they'll kill their own on a whim and blah blah blah.

Giving it a more rational if inhuman reason kind of takes away from the feeling you're dealing with an alien, monstrous, demonic force IMHO.

Chaotic evil - evil for evil's sake.

[Clonehunter]

Cybie killing his own to inspark terror?

Cyb the Impaler

[Marnetmar]

The barons dieded

[Platinum Shell]

Yeah, it was to show the player that some bad mufucka went through the tough guys like they were tissues, and were even hung up as a display, a warning.

That and, it also shows how demons will go against their own kind, as they run on pure evil.

[Gez]

Like in E2M9. Cacocorpses in the baron cave, tortured barons in the Caco Hall. It also serves as a subtle hint to the player: "Make them infight!"

[40oz]

Until you approach the cyberdemon, the Hell Baron is the largest, heaviest, and scariest monster in the game. Once you enter the Tower of Babel, hear that eerily melancholic music, you know you're about to fight something that no one is going to fuck with. It's rather horrifying and I don't think the map would be the same without it. It's a shame the Icon of Sin didn't start with something equally as terrible. The pile of weapons and stretched faces and hanged humans were pretty good but not as good as the texture we're talking about here.

[Use]

Just another one of those things that makes Doom the best ever.

[purist]

ReX said:

My sentiments, exactly. Here's an excerpt from Tower of Babel:

Off topic but I once attempted a bit of fan fiction for E2M8 myself, which you might be interested in.

[Encryptic]

DoomUK said:

What do you think the story behind this wall texture is? Why are they hanging there much like the human corpses are? What did they do to upset Satan?

Sometimes a mutilated Baron is just a mutilated Baron.

[printz]

Encryptic said:

Sometimes a mutilated Baron is just a mutilated Baron.

Maybe they're not even corpses. Maybe they're ragdolls!

[ReX]

purist said:

Off topic but I once attempted a bit of fan fiction for E2M8 myself, which you might be interested in.

"But I am safe amongst the dead..."
Good one.

As for the rest of it, pure poetry, I say.

And the final stanza:

My helpless quarry begged of me
With pleading eyes, if not with tongue
To put it out of agony
I drew my double-shooter gun

conveys a vulnerable quality to a cyberdemon that is in stark contrast to the fear and hatred it ordinarily inspires. And why not? Demons were once human too.

Kudos.