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GoatLord

Doomworld's guide to "Regular Doom Tricks"

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http://www.doomworld.com/tutorials/regintro.php

So I'm sure most all mappers know about this useful part of Doomworld. I wanted to take advantage of it, because I want to experiment with what vanilla Doom 2 can do before trying something more advanced like GZDoom editing. But to be honest, it's a bit technical and I don't really understand ANY of the tricks. I've already figured out how to do basic mapping, but how am I supposed to progress in order to understand what these pages are trying to explain?

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I guess the best way would just be to dive right in and try and copy what's in the diagrams, sector by sector. Although I suppose they could be a lot clearer. Then, if you can't get it to work, post up a link to what you've done so far and people can delve in to see what's wrong and give some pointers.

That said, even I'm not 100% sure about the tricks involving special nodebuilding. Don't think anyone's using warm or dmapedit these days, so I'm honestly clueless to how that stuff works.

Also, for the bridge and room over room effects, those are probably easier to achieve in a port with less effort. It's admirable that you want to learn the basics first, but in a sense, some of these tutorials are deprecated in that they're more of a hack and there are cleaner methods of getting the same result now.

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Nodebuilders? What the hell is that? Man, I feel so ignorant right now. Maybe there's some guides for doing tricks in Doom Builder. It's just that I want to eventually use the Doom Builder GZDoom plugin for creating complex architecture and I don't feel I should tackle that until I can figure out some vanilla tricks first.

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A nodebuilder is exactly how it sounds. It builds nodes from your map data so the game can digest the map data more easily. Nowadays you don't need any specific nodebuilder to pull off these tricks, because most of them will do it automatically. Just use something recent. ZDBSP, ZenNode, and DeepBSP are all great nodebuilders. Doombulder comes with the former two, so you can select whichever you'd rather use.

Probably the first step is to learn the different basic components of a map, and how each of them relate to one another. You will need an intermediate to advanced knowledge of how sector references work, because many of these tricks rely on deliberately breaking them. The Doom wiki can help. I'd suggest starting here, here, and here. In order to get started, you have to know a bit of the technical details, even if it might seem like a pain in the ass.

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In your situation you might be better off starting right away with GZDoom editing rather than vanilla tricks, because these are often a way to approximate things that shouldn't be possible, things that might be supported properly in GZDoom - so learning those particular tricks wouldn't have any direct use to you.

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Is editing for GZDoom pretty straightforward? I was watching a demonstration of the plugin for Doom Builder on Youtube, and it seemed like a lot of the architectural stuff like slopes, terrain and true 3D geometry seemed to behave a bit more like it does in a standard modeling program. If that's the case I'll probably switch to that.

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GZDoom mapping is just like ZDoom mapping these days, just with a few less limitations and a different renderer to work with. ZDoom in UDMF using DB2 is much like ZDoom in Hexen format, just with more options (particularly line and sector properties). ZDoom in Hexen format really is a lot like mapping for HeXen, but again with plenty more options. If you can map for Doom, the small jump to having to define things like door opening speeds and delays on linedefs with special actions that HeXen requires isn't a big deal. The special lumps and scripting require a bit of extra know-how, but none of it was stuff I couldn't pick up from reading the relvant pages and examples on the ZDoom wiki.

Basically, yes, GZDoom editing is pretty straight forward as long as you can get your head around the basics of Doom mapping and have the vaguest idea of what feature you're looking for when searching the wiki for examples on how to use said features.

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Well, I'm basically just wanting to make maps that have some interesting features like two-storied rooms, slopes, suspended bridges, terrain, ambient sounds, transformation sequences ala Doom 64, colored lighting, shit like that. I know GZDoom can handle all of those things, and I'm trying to find the best way to transition to that so that I won't be in over my head.

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Some of it will be following editing tutorials, some trial and error, having a peek at other people's maps in the editor to see how they did it. All of those things together and you'll soon start to make sense of it all.

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Might as well just make a few small test maps to get a handle of the features you want to use and then make the map you really want to make when you feel more comfortable with the feature set.

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Most of the tricks mentioned make use of engine 'hacks', most notable self-referencing sectors. These don't work well with GZDoom, last time I checked (which is admittedly a long time ago).

That said, these tricks are far from useless even now. The idea behind them is still valid, but nowadays you can use port features to replace the 'hack' used.

Take for example 3D effects like a gallows with a body bungling from it, inside a bigger room. Instead of making the supporting sector have self-referencing linedefs, you now use Boom's flat property transfer trigger (nr. '242') to make that sector invisible.

Something as complex as room-above-room effects can still be used. But instead of self-referencing sectors, you now use Boom's 242 trigger. Instead of making sector lower/raise instantly to provide support, you can use 3DMidTex lines. This greatly simplifies the trick. I still use this effect, to fake a linked portal in cases when I can't use a linked portal.

Some ports, such as ZDoom, already have features (like 3DFloors) that really do make vanilla Doom tricks completely obsolete. So it really depends on what port you're modding for.

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Here's a wad I did several years ago. Was going to expand upon it with more advanced features, but I kind of lost interest in it/got busy with other stuff. Never released it until now, so maybe someone will finally find it of use. Not sure I checked with vanilla, but everything was fine with Chocolate Doom.

http://speedy.sh/8DRD2/tricks.wad

It makes use of some lighting tricks, deep water, passover/under fences, and door lock mechanisms.

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DooMAD said:

Some of it will be following editing tutorials, some trial and error, having a peek at other people's maps in the editor to see how they did it. All of those things together and you'll soon start to make sense of it all.

Yeah, 100% followed this progression of things. Used Chubz's DB1 tutorials, proceeded to wonder what the hell a closed sector was and damn it, why can I walk through these damn walls?!

Then I stared at Remain1 and Scythe 2's maps for a good, long while and learned several tricks (bridges, doors opening during a second trek down a hallway, etc.). I tried using the guide OP linked for bridges, but it had some godawful results. By then I'd had a, "Fuck it, I can figure this out because I know Doombuilder!!!" moment.

Of course, I've also figured out minimal scripting, slopes, etc. the same way, so I think this applies the same way for (G)Zdoom and other such ports.

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Its fun to know as a learning excercise, but I can honestly admit I've hardly utilized any of this stuff in my mapping

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40oz said:

Its fun to know as a learning excercise, but I can honestly admit I've hardly utilized any of this stuff in my mapping

Yeah, I'd agree that it's probably not really very important to learn about vanilla tricks, in a general mapping skill development sense.

Speaking for myself, at least, when suggesting that someone starts with vanilla mapping before expanding to whatever advanced source port they're looking at, the intent is to limit the potential distractions of effects and other gimmicks so that the fundamentals of gameplay and layout can be focused on. Even as an experienced mapper, it can be difficult to keep the important stuff in mind as much as I ought to when my attention is going towards visuals and effects.

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