My 9th Map Finally Finished! Feedback Appreciated

[RunescapeZYX]

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Long tedious hours of mapping have finally ended. It is here: My 9th map, Inferno.

This map is my largest and most detailed map to date, with over 20,000 linedefs, 400 monsters, and 1,400 sectors. It has taken countless hours to finish, so I hope if you decide to download it, that you enjoy the carnidge.

Screenshots (without monsters shown ;D):

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/84/2012071900004.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/155/2012071900005.jpg/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/151/2012071900006.jpg/

Below is a link to the download. However the following WAD's are required for textures:
-Doom 2
-Plutonia
-Plutonia 2
-Alien Vendetta
-Speed of Doom

Link: http://www.mediafire.com/?pb86j9x45hqzasr

Feedback Appreciated, Enjoy.
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[Unholypimpin]

I was going to download and give feedback but then I realized all the wad requirements and it needs skulltag to run. However from what i can tell from the screenshots the detail is pretty good, so good work.

[RunescapeZYX]

Alwaysdoomed said:

I was going to download and give feedback but then I realized all the wad requirements and it needs skulltag to run. However from what i can tell from the screenshots the detail is pretty good, so good work.

I assure you it would take less than 10 minutes to get them all. They are all free and Skulltag is a free program. But thank you anyway.

[invictius]

I have all required wads in my skulltag directory, yet the map isn't loading (seems to freeze after selecting difficulty).

[RunescapeZYX]

invictius said:

I have all required wads in my skulltag directory, yet the map isn't loading (seems to freeze after selecting difficulty).

Yes this problem happens to me as well. It hasn't freezed, it simply is taking forever to load up all the missing textures. Whenever I play it, I load it in Doom Builder 2 and then hit the "test map" button. I'm not sure how to run just the WAD itself even with the downloaded textures and not experience missing ones...

Another reason it may take forever to load is the fact that the size of this map alone is 20% of the size of the entire Doom 2 WAD.

[dannebubinga]

You should really make a new texture resource wad that holds the textures you want to use. Because it's tedious to add all those resources just to play 1 map. And why is it skulltag only? Seems pretty dull to me since it's a silly port that makes the game easier unless I don't spend hours trying to modify it to behave like good ol' doom.

[RunescapeZYX]

dannebubinga said:

You should really make a new texture resource wad that holds the textures you want to use. Because it's tedious to add all those resources just to play 1 map. And why is it skulltag only? Seems pretty dull to me since it's a silly port that makes the game easier unless I don't spend hours trying to modify it to behave like good ol' doom.

I'm actually trying to figure out how to do that right now. However I have no clue what to do.

[invictius]

RunescapeZYX said:

Whenever I play it, I load it in Doom Builder 2 and then hit the "test map" button.

I've been able to load by doing that but don't know how to load all the resources. Skulltag is set as the source port to load in the "test map" options... I try to load the resources out of the different pwads but you can only select one wad. I tried zipping them up and selecting them under "from directory" but it doesn't recognize the zipped wads as valid.

[scifista42]

I'm using command line to start the map with all resources. I type this:

skulltag -file av.wad -file Plutonia.wad -file Pl2.wad -file SODfinal.wad -file MAP03.wad

Spoiler

I played the map. At first I tried to kill everything, but I very early realised it won't be possible (the couple of cyberdemons). The first bigger trouble came with the couple of archviles while barons are behind you and you have only SSG and plasmagun. It took me many tries, but it was something players can deal with. After the blue key trap, I realised the best way (the only way?) to get through is running past all monsters. In the corridor to the large final arena I got trapped by endless crowd of barons, so next time I had to quickly run through before they appear. In the final arena I was just running in circles, dodging billions of projectiles and trying to get to switches. After pressing all switches, I tried to get to exit, but it was still too high - I had to straferun.

Sorry, but I must say - again - the map is too difficult. Too many monsters, no BFG or even rocketlauncher and too deadly traps that are almost impossible even if you know about them. I felt really frustrated when I had 13% health, I saw one stimpack at the end of corridor, so I run there and then bunch of chaingunners killed me. I don't like this kind of maps. As I told you in your other thread, you should do something with difficulty, add more ammunition and less monsters for lower skill levels.

In my opinion, at least on lower skill levels, maps should be playable and completable on the first try (when you don't know where are all the traps). And I really cannot say this about your map(s). You should learn to make maps that way - that's my advice for you.

[RunescapeZYX]

invictius said:

I've been able to load by doing that but don't know how to load all the resources. Skulltag is set as the source port to load in the "test map" options... I try to load the resources out of the different pwads but you can only select one wad. I tried zipping them up and selecting them under "from directory" but it doesn't recognize the zipped wads as valid.

Well I know this isn't a forum about how to configure Doom Builder but since you're using it to test this map for me...

-As soon as DB2 is running, go to the "tools" tab and then select "Game Configurations...F6"

-Now you select your configuration on the left of the window that pops up. Select "Doom 2". You may notice that now the "Add Resource..." option has become available.

-Select "Add Resource..."

-You will be on the "From WAD File" tab automatically. Stay there.

-Now you just click the folder icon on the right to add as many WAD's as you want.

[RunescapeZYX]

scifista42 said:

Sorry, but I must say - again - the map is too difficult. Too many monsters, no BFG or even rocketlauncher and too deadly traps that are almost impossible even if you know about them. I felt really frustrated when I had 13% health, I saw one stimpack at the end of corridor, so I run there and then bunch of chaingunners killed me. I don't like this kind of maps. As I told you in your other thread, you should do something with difficulty, add more ammunition and less monsters for lower skill levels.

In my opinion, at least on lower skill levels, maps should be playable and completable on the first try (when you don't know where are all the traps). And I really cannot say this about your map(s). You should learn to make maps that way - that's my advice for you.

How do you make that spoiler trick? It's pretty cool.

Anyway. This map is not meant for the average Doom player. I've beaten it multiple times, so I assure you it's not impossible. In fact, after uploading my usual demos of the map to youtube, I then--after already beating the entire level--went back and made the last room easier by adding 3 additional soulspheres. Which means I did it with the original 275 health available in that final room.

You say there isn't a BFG...then I question if you even played the map. I'm not trying to post spoilers but there are 4 BFG's in the last room, all in the open.

I also give the player a Plasma Gun VERY early. And the blue key trap has PLENTY of ammo for it. Killing Cyberdemons with a Plasma Gun is very easy. It only takes ~150-200 rounds.

Now I'm not saying that what you've said is all wrong. It's a hard map I agree. But this time around, I gave the player plenty of ammo and health in those extreme conditions, so if a player isn't just running through the map skipping all the big fights, he won't end up completely screwed later on; as this is a linear map where the player only can go one way the majority of the time. And that is the one flaw I see in it.

[K3K]

FINALLY BEAT IT! :P Damn was it hard, the only problem being that there wasn't enough ammo near the beggining to fend off all of the barons and imps. (Don't know If i missed a secret or not :\) But I'm compiling all of the video into one with WMM and It's 22 minutes LONG! Awesome map and a massive improvement from your last few.

Sorry it took so long to finish the recording :\ I kept dieing so many times in the previous recordings I was like "Fuck it I'll do it later". And I finally did :P I'd give it a solid 9/10 for architecture 8/10 for difficulty and 9/10 for fun. Overall a 8.5 WAD. I liked it alot Runescape keep up the good maping ;).

[K3K]

Also, you should look up a tutorial on the internet on how to combine all those wads into one, or grab all of the textures then put it into one WAD. It's kinda tedious having to combine the wads into a specific order just to play it :\

[scifista42]

RunescapeZYX said:

How do you make that spoiler trick? It's pretty cool.

Put the word "spoiler" in angular brackets [], then write a text you want to have in spoiler and end with "/spoiler" in angular brackets. If you want to see an example, click on the "Quote" button in the right bottom corner of my previous post (or this post) and you'll see.

no BFG

Sorry, my mistake, I wanted to say you get BFG too late, you don't have it earlier when you really need it.

Spoiler

When you encounter cyberdemons, archviles and dozens of revenants and barons, it would be much easier (but still hard -_-) with BFG. And in the final area, I found the BFG's, but I didn't need to shoot at all. There were too many monsters and they were fighting each other, so all I needed was to not get hit and quickly get to the exit.

And I'm just saying that I don't like when I must restart/load the game 20 times to deal with a very difficult trap and then I encounter even more difficult one. So when I play such maps, I tend to keep running past everything. I hope you understand me in this.

[RunescapeZYX]

scifista42 said:

And I'm just saying that I don't like when I must restart/load the game 20 times to deal with a very difficult trap and then I encounter even more difficult one. So when I play such maps, I tend to keep running past everything. I hope you understand me in this.

It just takes some practice :p. as the creator of the map, I know how to deal with all the fights which is why I can't understand when people say certain fights are too hard.

With the blue key trap, it's easy to not get hit if you run behind the large structure when rev's fireballs are coming at you. Or you can just run in a circle and they will miss. Once it's down to just the 2 cybers (one time there was only one as the rev's somehow killed one) you just take em out with the plasma gun.

As for when you first enter the main area of the map, I just take out everything there including the cacos and ONLY THEN activate the archs. Much easier to fight the pair alone with the plasma gun...

[RunescapeZYX]

TB171 said:

FINALLY BEAT IT! :P Damn was it hard, the only problem being that there wasn't enough ammo near the beggining to fend off all of the barons and imps. (Don't know If i missed a secret or not :\)

I don't see how one could run out of SSG ammo. The first room alone has 80 rounds. (The shotgun containing 8, SSG containing 8, total of 3 boxes of shells [60], and shotgun shells [4]). Then there's a backpack in the next area, so even more ammo.

The main area containing the red key switch contains another 84 alone. 64 of which is in the open and readily available. The secret contains some ammo/health...

I orginally put the plasma gun in the secret however I realized you should never put items that are crutial for completeing a level inside a secret. Like how I put a rocket launcher inside a secret in my 8th map. Which is funny because in your video (which is now deleted), you were wondering where the rocket launcher was when you were in the mancubus room.

Lastly, you said "to fend off all of the barons and imps...", near the beginning you fight 5 things: One being a baron of course. However you do not fight anymore until you activate the archviles. After which 3 barons teleport in. Maybe you meant cacos? That was a lot of spoilers. Oh well.

[RunescapeZYX]

TB171 said:

I'd give it a solid 9/10 for architecture 8/10 for difficulty and 9/10 for fun. Overall a 8.5 WAD. I liked it alot Runescape keep up the good maping ;).

And thank you! Only, is a high rating for difficulty mean it's a bad thing? Like too hard? Or not hard enough?

[K3K]

RunescapeZYX said:

I don't see how one could run out of SSG ammo. The first room alone has 80 rounds. (The shotgun containing 8, SSG containing 8, total of 3 boxes of shells [60], and shotgun shells [4]). Then there's a backpack in the next area, so even more ammo.

The main area containing the red key switch contains another 84 alone. 64 of which is in the open and readily available. The secret contains some ammo/health...

I orginally put the plasma gun in the secret however I realized you should never put items that are crutial for completeing a level inside a secret. Like how I put a rocket launcher inside a secret in my 8th map. Which is funny because in your video (which is now deleted), you were wondering where the rocket launcher was when you were in the mancubus room.

Lastly, you said "to fend off all of the barons and imps...", near the beginning you fight 5 things: One being a baron of course. However you do not fight anymore until you activate the archviles. After which 3 barons teleport in. Maybe you meant cacos? That was a lot of spoilers. Oh well.

About the ammo thing... It turns out I accidently missed the boxes of shells like a dumbass *facepalm*. And yes I deleted my old channel,just wanted to start off new :P and I'm uploading the Inferno video soonly, I would have later but my internet is shit. And I also redid the map playthrough.

[K3K]

RunescapeZYX said:

And thank you! Only, is a high rating for difficulty mean it's a bad thing? Like too hard? Or not hard enough?

A high difficulty rating would be (in my book) really well balanced. So yes, it is a good thing :)