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Spider mastermind a dumb idea for a boss?

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Am I'm I The Only One........who feels that the Spidermastermind is a dumb idea for a main boss of "Hell"? (Yes I'm talking about Ultimate Doom). Why couldn't it be like a Giant ass Baron Of Hell-esque Devilish demon? I mean seriously, I love Doom and all but a giant cybernetic spider is the fiend behind the Mars invasion? What the fuck...

Sorry if this sounds rude, but the whole "Spidermastermind" thing always seemed silly to me...

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It has been discussed quite a bit.

People will usually say that it was too weak, or not challenging enough period.

I think of it too "alien like", rather than demonic. But I do like it, and think it looks neat regardless. As a final boss, not so much, but I still like its usage in the game, and it is a fun fight.

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To anyone who had been informed that the antagonists in the Doom series were simply "demons" running amok atop the Earth and moons of Mars, it would probably seem silly that the concept behind the Mastermind is that of a brain on stilts. But this would be failing to mention that which is the core design of the demons within the game, and the themes and styles which make up its environments:

Technologically enhanced demons in space.

For all the praise that Doom receives regarding its raw and simple gameplay, this merging of genres (the biblical and the futuristic) is really quite unusual. The presence of the Mastermind is the perfect summary of the demons' place within the game, even if she does seem a little extra-terrestrial in the traditional sense.

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I always thought that the Spider Mastermind was a created minion of the 'real' bosses of hell, sent out to achieve a mission (i.e. destroy us) at which it utterly failed, thanks to our heroic marine protagonist.

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TB171 said:

Why couldn't it be like a Giant ass Baron Of Hell-esque Devilish demon?

They had that too. On the second episode. It's called the Cyberdemon.

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st.alfonzo said:
For all the praise that Doom receives regarding its raw and simple gameplay, this merging of genres (the biblical and the futuristic) is really quite unusual.

Well, it's derived from D&D plus Aliens, the kind of pop culture the id guys were into. The spiderdemon follows a vaguely arthropod style, as did the Aliens monsters in their way (the queen mother was like a huge ant queen, the face hugger a crablike creature) but with a huge brain that makes one think of programming and computers, things for brainy kids and people, aside from being a graphic pun with "mastermind". I's say they also meant it to be a bit silly and over the top, for the hell of it, to go with elements like the chainsaw, the impaled rabbit or the BFG.

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kristus said:

They had that too. On the second episode. It's called the Cyberdemon.


** I know that but I mean something that just screams Hell. Something like "Diabloists" on the realm667 bestiary.

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Was this creature originally designed by Adrian? I know the spider was the first and only armature to be outsourced to another artist (I can't remember his name, sorry). The manc, arch, and revenant were made by the same sculptor for Doom II.

TB171 said:

** I know that but I mean something that just screams Hell. Something like "Diabloists" on the realm667 bestiary.

The spider fits in well with Doom II's heavily cybernetic influenced cast.

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I don't mind it, maybe not the best boss, but as somebody said it fits in fairly well with the 'demons in space' theme.

We use technology to better out selfs, hell needs to keep up with the times too, otherwise they might not be as powerful or scary. Also gives them a good excuse to do some strange creepy sh*t by merging organic and tech together. I actually thought this was shown quite well in Doom 3?

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From the very first moment I saw it, the Spider Mastermind reminds me of this guy:


A gigantic version thereof.

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Technician said:

I know the spider was the first and only armature to be outsourced to another artist (I can't remember his name, sorry).

Gregor Punchatz.

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printz said:

From the very first moment I saw it, the Spider Mastermind reminds me of this guy

A gigantic version thereof.


I can see why :P

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Please set helpful, descriptive titles for new threads you create. Thanks.

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It would be interesting to find out if the Spider Demon and Cyber Demon were among the last foes designed for the original Doom, as many of Doom2's new foes are partially cybernetic.

In that were ID always thinking of cybernetic Demons from the beginning or was it a gradual shift throughout Doom1's development.

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fraggle said:

Please set helpful, descriptive titles for new threads you create. Thanks.


Oh sorry :S And just noticed that the title was changed. But I take heed and remember next time.

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I always assumed that the demons borrowed the cybernetic technology from humanity or something.

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Avoozl said:

I always assumed that the demons borrowed the cybernetic technology from humanity or something.


I thought about something like that before. But my idea was more dumb and odd sounding, and really didn't make too much sense :P

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That spider was the brains behind the entire invasion. Definitely not an overlord of Hell, more like a tactician that is put in charge of managing the fine details while the higher-ups concentrate on the big picture.

So it was quite appropriate to its role. Even it being physically weaker than its bodyguard the Cyberdemon makes sense in that way.

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The only flaw is that fight seems a little anticlimatic, after E2M8. They could have improved it by hiding the spider while the player has to duke it out with its bodyguards (1, 2, or 3 cyberdemons based on skill level) and only having the spider appear once those are dead (and the player expended most of his energy cells).

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TB171 said:

the whole "Spidermastermind" thing always seemed silly to me...

Why?

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TB171 said:

Am I'm I The Only One........who feels that the Spidermastermind is a dumb idea for a main boss of "Hell"?


Yes, you are the only one. As Kristus said, they gave you the huge goat-legged horned devilish guy(the Cyberdemon) at the conclusion of Episode 2. This was done on purpose. Most people would expect a creature like that to appear at the end of the game, and when it doesn't they are thrown off guard. The Spider Demon challenges people's preconceived notions of hell. It's a cool and creative boss. On the other hand, another fucking Baron of Hell recolor would've been way too obvious and wouldn't have added anything to the game.

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Vordakk said:

Yes, boss. On the other hand, another fucking Baron of Hell recolor would've been way too obvious and wouldn't have added anything to the game.


No, I don't mean like an litteral recoulor. I just don't think the Smastermind fits with whole hell thing. It's just my opinion :P

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I wish there was an intermediate monster between Arachnotron and "Smastermind", that would kick both kinds' asses.

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yellowmadness54 said:

I think of it too "alien like", rather than demonic. But I do like it, and think it looks neat regardless. As a final boss, not so much, but I still like its usage in the game, and it is a fun fight.


I find it ok as a enemy in Doom 2, just doesn't feel right in Ultimate Doom.

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The "Smastermind" (my new favorite name for it) is my favorite looking monster in the game. I also love how very un-typical it is for a hellish being. Something taken straight out of some old lame pagan scripts just doesn't do it for me when imagining what beings from hell might look like. I personally hate cliches.

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I've called him "Spideymind" before but "Smastermind" ain't bad either. :P

Cool enemy anyhow, because yaydesign. Also props for being pretty much the only video game anything that scared me as a kid -- I literally would not play Dis for quite a few weeks after first beating the game, despite running through all the other levels over and over. :P

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Marnetmar said:

My only real issue with it is how weak it is.

That's my problem too. It bugs me to think "they made the final boss weaker than the previous, the Cyberdemon", which shouldn't be more powerful.

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A rapid fire (the only such bad guy attack in Doom1) and hard to avoid, comparatively light damage attack versus easy to avoid, comparatively heavy damage attack.

Wheter ID was able to make them equal though (obviously it depends on a bit more than the actual attack).

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