Community Chest 4 (PUBLIC BETA PERIOD OVER!)

[Keeper of Jericho]

Community Chest has never been the easiest of wads. There are enough maps out there in all of the 3 previous chests that can be very tough to beat, or that have slaughterfest qualities.

[DooMer 4ever]

Well, I didn't mean that ToD's run on the map is how everyone would be able to play it. Not everyone is a Doom god, and I certainly am not. What I meant is that the invulnerability etc. I wasn't aware of when playing the map myself make the map look very much playable and leave quite a bit of margin for mistakes to complete it without too much trouble. Of course, I haven't actually tried so I might as well be wrong, who knows. I'll propably try playing the original version over the weekend not to sound completely stupid.

[The Green Herring]

hawkwind said:

map 21 revisited.

There is a very obvious issue with KS_GRI8 with sector 723. Easily fixed by changing the floor height of sector 727 to -216. There is also still the issue of KS_GRI8 not rendering on the back-sides of lines 3323, 3186 etc.

As with the MAP16 bug j4rio brought up, both bugs occur only in one specific hardware-rendering source port — this time, Risen3d. The sector 723 bug should be fixed in Beta 4, but please check with other source ports before declaring a bug to be "very obvious."

[pfl]

07 Hoedown; got stuck on the way to the blue armor secret between the raised raising platform and the spot where the armor lies.

[hawkwind]

The Green Herring said:

As with the MAP16 bug j4rio brought up, both bugs occur only in one specific hardware-rendering source port — this time, Risen3d. The sector 723 bug should be fixed in Beta 4, but please check with other source ports before declaring a bug to be "very obvious."

The error j4rio posted was for glboom+, not Risen3D. I do agree though, that I should have checked in other ports regarding what I stated for map 21. For the moment I suggest not fixing the map 21 sector 723 issue. You are right. It is an internal bug and will be reported to Graham Jackson, author of R3D.

Also, the glboom+ bug for map 16 is caused by line 545 overlapping lines 511 and 507. Deleting line 545 and fixing this area up solves that one. It appears that DB2 fails in detecting overlapping lines now. While at it I checked map 16 for overlapping lines with DB1 and it reported these also, 4436/4431, 4141/4136 and 3846/3841. While I could not see any rendering glitch it is probably worth fixing these as well.

[The Green Herring]

hawkwind said:

The error j4rio posted was for glboom+, not Risen3D. [...]

Also, the glboom+ bug for map 16 is caused by line 545 overlapping lines 511 and 507. Deleting line 545 and fixing this area up solves that one.

If you read my response to his post, you'll find that not only do I already know all of this, but the bug has already been addressed and fixed (gotta put it in the changelog). Thanks for the effort in the rest of the post, though.

[Crimson Dusk]

I only skimmed through the maps by now but - *damn* - map20 blew my mind! Great job Kassman!
The rest of the maps look great too, truly a breeze of fresh air. :)

[hawkwind]

map 24 ...

1. MIDFENC1 bleeds into the floor at ( or near ) vertex 1979 and 1995 in software ports. Caused by Y offsets.
2. MIDFENC1 at line 640 bleeds into the floor in software ports. Does not render in hardware. Just needs a Y offset fix, or lower unpeg the line and remove Y offsets and maybe an X alignment.
3. Sector 1875 probably should have had the floor flat FWATER1.
4. The mid texture on lines 3219 and 3218 is only rendering on one side.
5. Problem (HOM) with sector 458 in the ceiling. Suspect a fake ceiling issue. Does a fake sector even need to be here ?
6. Y offset issue at line 7313, and nearby I think.
7. Brightness level for sector 508 could be 160, to match surrounds.

map 25 ...

1. Linetype 261 - ceiling brightness, could have been used for sectors 624, 632, etc.
2. Line 3088 could be flagged "secret".
3. This map has the computermap pickup. As such many control sectors need their lines flagged "hidden".
4. Minor - many of the vine textures do not match up on both sides of the lines.

[Insane_Gazebo]

Well done on getting this far guys. A shit ton of work has obviously gone into this. I haven't had time to go through them all yet, but warping around through the maps showed me a few really good looking pieces of work in this pack. (And continued with the CC tradition of having a few lousy maps, that may or may not have been added in the last few minutes.)

One question, however, and I'm sorry if I missed someone answering it: What happened to that giant green map I thought was part of this CC? I remember seeing some shots of it in the CC sub-forum a long time ago, and I was really looking forward to playing it.

[The Green Herring]

"Temple of Verdance" did not make it into the WAD, but it was later released separately, although it requires you to have cc4-tex.wad to play it (and to load it before the level WAD, which the author doesn't mention).

[Insane_Gazebo]

The Green Herring said:

"Temple of Verdance" did not make it into the WAD, but it was later released separately, although it requires you to have cc4-tex.wad to play it (and to load it before the level WAD, which the author doesn't mention).

Ah, I was hoping that might have been the case. Thanks!

[hawkwind]

map26 ...

1. Fake sectors for sectors 37 and 38 would be much better, to prevent the "floor" from "sliding" when looking at the torches and strafing side to side.
2. Note the ceiling flat of sector 181. It uses the flat DEM4_6, but note the texture on lines 983, 977,994 and 964. It uses the texture BIGDOORF. As such the flat on the underside would look much better with BROWNSD2. So the 4 corner sectors should be a new sector and the 2 central ones to stay as is.
3. Lines 5962, 13685, 13711 could be flagged "secret".
4. IMO, the ceiling flat for sector 474 would look better with CEIL5_M.
5. T304 - blue torch - not flagged easy or medium skill.
6. Some of SP_DUDEA on line 13939 hangs below the red bricks, and is not seen on the other sidedef. Just needs SP_DUDEA raised up a bit.
7. Lines associated with sectors 1778, 1832, 1837 and 1826 could be flagged "hidden".

map 27 ...

1. HOM in the "floor" of sectors 82, 84, 86 and 81 in at least Glboom+ and Risen3D. Said sectors should have been self referencing, or better still, fake sectors.
2. Lines 1669, 9309 could be flagged "secret".
3. Texture on lines 4998 and 5004 do not tile correctly. Need an alignment.
4. 100% secrets not possible. Remove the "secret" flag from sector 1432 as it is impossible to get.
5. I also suspect - and I hope I'm wrong, that secret sector 1374 is impossible to get as well, since sector 1432 closes as soon as the archvile - T341 - teleports immediately at the start of the level from either line 9132, 9045 or 9125 to sector 1335, crossing line 9092, permanently closing sector 1432, preventing the use of the switch at line 9703, so the lift at sector cannot be used, preventing use of the switch at line 9698, hence the player cannot teleport to sector 391, preventing the use of the switch at line 9308, which would open door sector 1368 to reach secret sector 1374. Am I missing something ?

[The Green Herring]

hawkwind said:

map 27 ...

[...]

5. I also suspect - and I hope I'm wrong, that secret sector 1374 is impossible to get as well, since sector 1432 closes as soon as the archvile - T341 - teleports immediately at the start of the level from either line 9132, 9045 or 9125 to sector 1335, crossing line 9092, permanently closing sector 1432, preventing the use of the switch at line 9703, so the lift at sector cannot be used, preventing use of the switch at line 9698, hence the player cannot teleport to sector 391, preventing the use of the switch at line 9308, which would open door sector 1368 to reach secret sector 1374. Am I missing something ?

Yes, you are missing something. The switch at linedef 9308 can be accessed by

Spoiler

performing an arch-vile jump onto sector 391.

The switch that activates that lift-door and which gets sealed off is for use in -nomonsters only.

(Y'know, I changed linedef 9308 from a gunfire switch to a regular one for the express purpose of preventing confusion. I guess that failed, and I will have to change it back.)

[Evolution]

Time to rifle through maps 16 to 32!

[Hekksy]

Map18 causes instant segmentation violation in DOS Boom 2.02. Some other ports have trouble with it.

[The Green Herring]

Vulture said:

Map18 causes instant segmentation violation in DOS Boom 2.02. Some other ports have trouble with it.

The WAD's text file said:

Advanced engine needed : Boom-compatible source ports with an increased SEGS limit (PrBoom+ 2.5.1.3 -complevel 9 or Eternity Engine v3.40.20 "Mjolnir" recommended)

May Not Run With... : Doom2.exe, Boom.exe (too many SEGS on certain levels), or any source port that isn't Boom-compatible

[Evolution]

We realized that the server had too low a heapsize for this map. I'm surprised it ran fine during the first rotation, but decided only to kick a fuss during the pain rotation. The map with -fast enabled must have demanded a little too much. We've just been toying around on the [DUI] NJ 1.09 server for the US session and have found a nice working value. :)

[hawkwind]

map 27 sector 391 ...

@The Green Herring - I read what you stated and ok - BUT - now sectors 1432 and 1430 and 1431 are now redundant as is the teleport thing at sector 391 and the tag for this sector ( or are these necessary for DM ? ).

[The Green Herring]

The thing, the tag, and each and every sector mentioned in your post is part of the -nomonsters set-up, i.e. a way that you can get to that secret when playing the level with no monsters. I thought I made that absolutely clear when I said the switch was for -nomonsters only, but I guess not.

[hawkwind]

The Green Herring said:

The thing, the tag, and each and every sector mentioned in your post is part of the -nomonsters set-up, i.e. a way that you can get to that secret when playing the level with no monsters. I thought I made that absolutely clear when I said the switch was for -nomonsters only, but I guess not.

I understand now. I know, I'm a dill ... ;)

==========================================

map 20 revisited ...

Ports with mouselook support will notice areas of "black" when looking up into "space". This is both a software and a hardware issue. I'll let Graham Jackson, the author of Risen3D to explain ...

The problem with cc4 map20, where unwanted dark areas can be seen in a sky ceiling or floor with any port, all goes back, I believe, to maps that instead of using F_SKY1, where F_SKY1 is actually wanted, have instead used a black texture for reasons that defy explanation. In the case of cc4 map20 ALLBLAKF has been used in place of F_SKY1 for both ceilings and floors. The reason for doing this? None: other than most probably copying what has been done in previous maps (since we all learn from what others have done previously).

In the case of vrack2b.wad's map01, a widely admired map, two textures have been added in place of F_SKY1 for no good reason namely CEIL5_1 and STARS1. Subsequent map authors have wrongly assumed on either looking at this map or others that were , perhaps, inspired by this that a black texture has to be used in place of F_SKY1 where different floor/ceiling heights create a line 'missing texture'. What is not understood, as it has never been widely explained, is that missing upper/lower textures with sky ceilings/floors are ignored by the renderer. It is also not obvious to a map author that the sky texture is not drawn as a flat in the same way as for all other textures. The sky is a single enveloping entity that moves with the player to give the impression of being infinitely distant. As such 'missing' line textures, in the case of a sky where used both sides of a line, has no effect and needs no special handling in the map. Despite this none of these authors have ever tried using the texture that is actually wanted, F_SKY1, perpetuating the delusion that a black texture for some unholy reason or other has to be used.

To finally bust this myth, which can cause untold woe, I submit the replacement cc4bet3_map20 where F_SKY1 has been correctly used in place of all occurrences in sky sectors of the unwanted ALLBLAKF texture. In addition instead of having missing mid textures on 1's lines at the map boundaries the sectors have been 'flattened'. I have gone to this trouble because cc4 map20 is a good map which has clearly been crafted after many a long hour by skillful map designers and deserves to be rendered correctly and also, as I've said, to bust this ridiculous myth that using black floor/ceiling patches instead of F_SKY1 is somehow required in the circumstances mentioned. - end quote.

Just to add, Graham sent me this map modified as stated, and looks great without all the black weirdness.

============================================


map 28 ...

1. Seeing ashwall3 at line 6659 abutting line 6662 with rock16 looked odd. Similar with rock16 at lines 6692, 6816 and 6673.
2. Lines 10041, 973 could be flagged "secret".
3. Sector 2099 does not have sector effect 8, as does sector 1915, 1808 etc. Actually, some torches flicker, others don't.
4. Floor brightness, linetype 213, could have been used for sectors 2107, 2109 etc.
5. Notice how the "bridges" at sectors 1828, have the texture SUPP816D, a little lower than the floor of sector 1902, but the player does not notice this in movement. Similar for the bridge at sector 1865.
6. With Risen3D, there is momentary blocking when running from sector 1708 to sector 1704. This is because when the player has reached line 12837, sector 1711 is still lowering. Easily fixed by moving line 12844 just 4 map units north, to make it the same distance that line 12843 is from line 12840.

[DeathevokatioN]

Congrats on such a fine megawad to everyone who is involved, and kudos to Green Herring for his hard work. It's been great fun playing this wad co-op, there are some amazing levels, and there weren't any levels that I didn't enjoy as I like to say that imperfection has it's charm, and I guess I'm part of the few that enjoyed Keeper's level as it originally was. :p

It was great to play another map by Adam Windsor, and I hope he continues to make levels! Wilou and Lupinx have been promoted into my list of favorite modern mappers. If I had to pick 5 favorite levels out of the set I'd say Technoprison (please don't change it for anyone, Joshy), The Grotto, Spiritual Holocaust, Crucifix Held Close and then I'd squeeze maps 20 and 21 into 1 map with Doombuilder and give it a mention. :)

I ran into 2 game breaking bugs which I'm not sure have been covered yet. but I'll post them anyway later tonight...

[hawkwind]

map 29 ...

1. Lines 6692, 6705, 4569, 4574, 2486 and 2331 could be flagged "secret".
2. For "realism", a small sector could be placed in front of line 2736, with a brightness of 128 so as to not have said line render with the brightness of 208. Note this was done at line 1871. Similar for lines 1157, 1912, 1006, 3024, 2413, 1813, 1848 and sector 63.
3. Note the Y offsets for the texture on lines 3026, 3027, 457 and 3021, 3022, 3021. One side is -8 while the other is 0. This results in differing heights for the texture.
4. Due to its frame animation, the revenants at sector 28 can be seen through line 2331 when looking along it in a north/south orientation, and when sector 35 is closed. They just need to be dragged slightly west.
5. Note that the texture SKINFACE does not X align correctly on lines associated with sector 32.
7. Wrong floor flat for sectors 656, 650 and 652. Should be BRIKGTH8.
8. Line 1857 needs an x offset of 120 and y -24, and line 2135 need a Y offset of 64 and y -24.
9. Is an AV jump required to reach secret sector 1314 ?
10 Should sector 130 have had the floor and ceiling flat BRIKGTH3 ? Compare sector 145.


map 30 ...

1. Non damaging lava at sector 21.
2. Lava at sectors 810 and 824 do 20% damage, but elsewhere only does 10%.
3. Lines 7469, 2153, 3830 and 3593 could be flagged
"secret".
4. I thought the speed of the lifts at sectors 309 and 310 was a bit too fast. It took me numerous tries before I made it from sector973 to 431.

================================================

There are many instances where this pwad uses the hanging sprite Type 61 - Hanging victim, one legged. This has been set to the wrong height of 52. It should be 84, like its blocking variant. As such see how it renders in Eternity and GLBoom+ at map 28 vertex 10159 for example.

I've made a small DeHackEd patch to correct this ...

.........................................

Patch File for DeHackEd v3.0

Doom version = 21
Patch format = 6

Thing 109 (One-legged Body 2)
Height = 5505024

.........................................

===========================================

Well done one and all for this great pwad ! :)

[HackNeyed]

pfl said:

07 Hoedown; got stuck on the way to the blue armor secret between the raised raising platform and the spot where the armor lies.

Me too with ZDoom but not with PrBoom-Plus. I'm Loving this wad, it's heaps of fun.

[WH-Wilou84]

Thanks for the bug reports, hawkwind. :)
As always, you're very accurate.

I've made the related fixes on map 28, and am about to send the update to The Green Herring.

[darkreaver]

hawkwind said:

map 29 ...

9. Is an AV jump required to reach secret sector 1314 ?

In the version you tested, yes. But its no longer required in the newest version.

[Keeper of Jericho]

I've finally found the perfect solution for map 16's pole-running, to make the sequence easier and still look good, but also optional. I've added a switch that will lower the old, difficult poles and makes new, easy ones rise instead. It works like a charm and it looks good. All the player has to do now is find a way to get to that switch. For those who fear that the switch is in some obscure place, it's not. Take a look, it's in plain sight:

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/Elpizo/Doom-Screenshots/TheForgottenBase/screenshot_doom_20120811_190623.png

This way, people who like the pole-running sequence can still enjoy it, and people who find it too annoying can bypass it as well, and both side should be pleased now.

I'll do a few more tests. and then I'll send it to TGH. I pray that with this the map'll be done for good.

[Not Jabba]

Sounds like a perfect solution. Thanks for sticking with it and smoothing out the design.

[dew]

the angry dewmonster is appeased, i like that idea. thanks on working out a compromise!

[pfl]

http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m570/bfgbfg/Screenshot_Doom_20120812_003801.jpg

11 The Grotto; switch can be activated from "window", even when in the ground, at this very precise location.

[Joshy]

pfl said:

http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m570/bfgbfg/Screenshot_Doom_20120812_003801.jpg

11 The Grotto; switch can be activated from "window", even when in the ground, at this very precise location.

That's not really unintentional; think of it as a shortcut. ;-)