Doom 2 in name only (tentative title)

Suicide exit would be ideal, and compatible with the final 'gauntlet'.

Anywho:



This is the expected bit; the run up to this part is where I'm trying to bring something new. I tried for a kinda 'demonic puppetmaster' look with the 'hands' there, but I'm getting close to VPO in some areas as-is (110-ish visplanes in one area). Will this do?

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ComicMischief said:

Suicide exit would be ideal, and compatible with the final 'gauntlet'.

Okay alright, if you insist. :D

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Nice little map, pitched well for MAP04 I think.

What I liked:

- red key is ostensibly optional, if the player knows the level well enough and has enough health.
- ammo balance is perfect. I did have to punch a few lost souls with the fist due to careless chaingun usage on my part, but I liked the struggle.
- similarly, great health balance.

What I didn't like:

- flat lighting in the first part of the base. Would like some shadows cast by a few lights.
- a few narrow areas in the nukage area at the end, I got stuck a couple of times.

Good map. A few tweaks and it'll be great. :)

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ComicMischief said:

...flat lighting in the first part of the base. Would like some shadows cast by a few lights.
...


I wanted an atmosphere of a brightly-lit building for that area. The most i am ready to do is make some of the corridors a bit darker, but more would diminish that mood for me. I thought the 90-degree walls with their different shading would provide enough contrast.

...a few narrow areas in the nukage area at the end, I got stuck a couple of times.
...

I will look into that, although i didn't notice any narrow areas there besides the dead ends that are naturally getting more and more narrow to a point where you can't go further.

Anyway thanks a lot for the feedback, i'm glad you liked the balance :)

a version with wider lava corridors and a few very slightly darker areas in the green base. There's almost too much contrast in that area with all the 90-degree walls, and since light is never coming from a single source, but rather from tons of lamps all over, i really don't think there should be any strong shadows there. Although from experience i apparently like much more even and plain lighting in doom than other people. :D

edit from the future: the currently latest version is actually here

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Here's where I spoil the surprise; Icon of Sin, in name only. Sharing this Doom Builder snap as a cautionary tale: lettering like this really chews up visplanes, but it's cool. I can work around it.

I've started backwards here, the actual Icon battle is complete (a little tough, but lots of fun) now to do the sins themselves.

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I am really intrigued! Also, be sure to fix slimetrails that those letters will no doubt produce :D

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ComicMischief said:

I have ideas, though I want some feedback from the guys making the last couple of maps as to what themes they went with (a couple of screenshots going in my inbox would be nice) and just how tough they're aiming in terms of difficulty -- although this is less a concern since, being the last map, I could theoretically ramp it up to 'barely possible' and it would fly. After all, Plutonia Revisited did just that. :P

My map will be cavernous, which will be nice because Doom 2 has a rich set of cave (and brick) textures. It will probably be geared with heavy monsters like Hell Knights and Cacodemons and will quite likely have a boss or heavy ambush (or both). At least this is my direction for now.

I hate suicide exits. I'd rather let there be a margin of error, than put an arbitrary forced pistol start, based on a hacky feature (wheeee, even dead players can trigger exits! Keep in mind id did care not to let you win Doom 1 episodes if dead. They probably would have done the same with normal exits if they had this risk).

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Can we not have this one suicide exit, if no others (given that it's, like, the final level here)?

I was asking for the ammo balance to be tight (although suicide exit is better) because I'm tackling the sins. Think about it; greed.

In short, I have planned a gauntlet of six sines before the final one, pride, opens up. For those wondering, each successful run through a sin's section will trigger (out in the 'void' space of my map) a crusher > barrels > commander keen to open the final one. Should work, right? :)

Dangit, I'm spoiling all my surprises.

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ComicMischief said:

Dangit, I'm spoiling all my surprises.


So um...-definitely not trying to make you reveal- how are you going to tackle lust?

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It's MAP30, and (with suicide exit on MAP29) you have only a pistol. Lusting after other weapons is still lust. This is why I was asking. ;)

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ComicMischief said:

It's MAP30, and (with suicide exit on MAP29) you have only a pistol. Lusting after other weapons is still lust. This is why I was asking. ;)

I guess I don't hate the suicide exit after all. Your idea really reminds me of Baldur's Gate 2's final stage, which has a very similar premise.

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Antroid: i liked the outside area of the map, and the lava area at the end was cool. putting the radiation suit behind the red key door was a nice touch.

i definitely agree that the first base part was the weakest, though. there's nothing at all memorable about it, to me. i know you don't want to add it in, but some lighting contrast would really make the area feel stronger. at least some re-texturing would - the bright blue carpet is a little garish.

otherwise, cool map! it didn't seem too difficult, but i'll actually play all the way through legitimately to see how doable everything is.

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This better?

I changed the blue carpet (which i liked!) for the beige metal tiles, and darkened all corridors and more cramped areas of the green base to 144. I didn't really set out to make every part awesome and memorable, but i always thought that a brightly-lit techbase would suit the map04 music very well. Fortunately, with this tweak it still feels like i want it to, but has even more contrast.
Otherwise, glad you like it :) I'm relieved people don't think the lava area is too extreme for a map04.

edit: if anybody wants to check out this iteration, here you go
edit from the future: the currently latest version is actually here

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Antroid said:


I did an FDA of your map. I will edit this post in 53 minutes or so once the upload finishes.

Basically I really liked the map except for the final lava-area--I would try for something a little more memorable and a little less "well, I can't think of anything cool to do so I guess I'll throw in a maze".

The tekgren area also felt a little boring in its monochromatic design. The beginning of the map is very nicely designed.

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i actually liked the maze part quite a bit, though maybe it's too hellish too early. i agree about the tekgreen part being a little boring though.

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WIthout further ado, here's the first draft of my MAP16 - Suburbs:

MAP16.wad - 56.2 Kb

Still unfinished; the level's likely to double in size, but just so you guys get to see it firsthand!

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I am probably going to be away from my computer for the next month (I picked quite the time to join a community project!) but so yous all know I'm not incompetent I have completed the layout of my map. The rooms are all still empty and undetailed, and none of the actions have been setup, but the layout is complete. I would say after 8 hours the map is about 15% complete. Check it:

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ShadesMaster said:

WIthout further ado, here's the first draft of my MAP16 - Suburbs:

MAP16.wad - 56.2 Kb

Still unfinished; the level's likely to double in size, but just so you guys get to see it firsthand!


I like the overall look, but I'd go with a slightly steeper learning curve. The original had an Archie pretty much outside your front door, so it'd be nice to have something like that. Maybe one could spawn when you pick up the chaingun.

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@Shadesmaster and Antroid: Looking good guys!
Antroid, the beginning part of your map is one of the best outdoor parts I've seen in vanilla for simplicity. You've really done a lot there without doing much, great stuff.
Shadesmaster, looking forward to seeing more of yours when it's more progressed, great so far.

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Eris Falling said:

Right, mine works in ZDoom, but goes all retarded in chocorenderlimits.


How about a screenshot of where it goes iffy?

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Hellbent said:

...
Basically I really liked the map except for the final lava-area--I would try for something a little more memorable and a little less "well, I can't think of anything cool to do so I guess I'll throw in a maze". ...

Would you believe that the lava maze was absolutely planned from the very beginning and was one of the main ideas for the map? :) (It's true!)
Now where's that FDA? :D

glenzinho said:

...
Antroid, the beginning part of your map is one of the best outdoor parts I've seen in vanilla for simplicity. You've really done a lot there without doing much, great stuff. ...

Haha, i'm happy :) I think the most important bit was utilizing the 90-degree wall brightening and darkening to my advantage. But i had some trouble with drawsegs in that area initially.

Also i'm okay with a part of the map being boring, it's short and a break between the awesometastic areas around it so that those are more appreciated. You can't just have a non-stop barrage of amazingness :) (although i will try to avoid any boring areas in map29)

Edit: another version of the map, what is it, the fifth one? here Basically just two floor texture changes (i missed a bit of blue rug and i forgot to texture the exit room's floor as an elevator). It's here purely in the interests of having a (more) final build available. I'll add this link to the previous posts too to avoid confusion.

Edit2: so hey ella guro, is my map04 actually accepted for the project? (at least until somebody really passionate for "the focus" makes a map04 that's 100 times better)

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ShadesMaster: what's there looks not too bad, but there's not much! please don't hold back! map 15 in Doom 2, for example, is freaking huge. all the big guns (enemies/weapons) will probably be brought out by around maps 12-13, anyway, so don't feel limited from using something, as long as it's not mind-numbingly difficult.

Antroid: yeah, your map is good! it's accepted. i just find that middle area a little boring. you can have it be a break between the two sections and still be more interesting thematically/visually/etc.

i've been messing around with the beginning of my Bloodfalls map. i'm still very inexperienced with doom editing, so i'm far from anything presentable. i will show some screens when there's something to look at.

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Eris Falling said:

Right, mine works in ZDoom, but goes all retarded in chocorenderlimits.

So the left shots are chocorenderlimits, where an impassable HOM is being shown looking back through the door was, and the walkway ends before the red door.

Might be a sector tagging issue, any switches or or walkover triggers nearby using tag number 0? It's a problem that I think ZDoom is immune to but can create mayhem with vanilla and compatible engines.

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GreyGhost said:

Might be a sector tagging issue, any switches or or walkover triggers nearby using tag number 0? It's a problem that I think ZDoom is immune to but can create mayhem with vanilla and compatible engines.


No

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