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dobu gabu maru

The DWmegawad Club Plays: CC4 (Starting JENESIS Oct. 1st!)

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Phobus said:

MAP07: Was pretty surprised to see so many of you not using mouselook and all of the complaints that bought. The map has been virtually unchanged for three years and none of the testers mentioned it IIRC.


Wait what? Playing CC4 with mouselook would be against the rules anyway. I know mouselook would have completely broken my map. So in the spirit of cc4 mouselookers should have their hands broken with hammers. :P

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Just finished map 10, and may I say that was a thouroughly enjoyable 40 minutes of dooming. Really got engrossed in that map, sprawling yet hard to get lost, tons of monsters yet never out of ammo or health, some really nice /nasty surprises. For some silly reason I teleported into the mancubus party at the end without picking up the BFG first, can't believe i managed to survive that.

I have to say as well, despite any minor niggles i've had about previous maps the fact is this is turning out to be a classic collection, each map is really memorable so far - I couldn't say as much for the first 10 maps of most megawads.

People talking about mouselook, I may as well pitch in and say I don't use it myself either.

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MAP10 “Inner Fear” – Dutch Devil

Another big adventure through a medievil castle. Like MAP09 - and all of the set so far to be fair - the level is breathtakingly beautiful but Dutch Devil gets extra brownie points for doing it largely with stock Doom II textures. Several times in this level I allowed myself a breather to gawp at my surroundings.

Although the map is long the layout provided a lot more direction for the player, which meant I only got lost once after getting the red key (then wondered how I managed to once I worked out the way) and again, less seriously, looking for the switch opening the yellow bars to the exit garden. By my rate this is very good going in a large level so I can't complain too much. The length did deprive me of my favoured style of play (no saves) but I found saving after surving key traps worked as a compromise until the ambushes became too hostile for my tastes.

And this is where I felt the level really lost it's way. Teleport ambushes surround you, usually with chaingunners and revenants amongst other lesser foes. Almost every time this happens it feels cheap, which you can measure by comparing the difficulty of the trap the first time around agaist the difficulty the second time. In the aforementioned encounters they were almost instant death first time and then a case of finding a safespot and cheesing the crowd with a SSG in nonchalant comfort the second time. This sort of contrast tells you something is not right.

For the sake of balance I should point out that there is also some deliciously fun fights here also. The twin demon swarms were a rare example of a dangerous but fair demon only battle. So rare that it didn't irk me taking on the exact same fight twice in short succession. The rev/manc finale is also very tasty - provided you pick up the BFG before warping into it (placing the BFG on the teleport destination would have solved this).

So it's a great map with one (repeated) gameplay flaw preventing me from fully enjoying it. Like a beautiful girl with psychotic tendencies she's great to look at but uncomfortable to spend any length of time with.

4/5

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Argh I'm falling behind!

MAP09: (pistol start) At first I thought this map was a bit easy since there was plenty of health and an SSG given quite early... but that smug self-assurance was erased quite quickly. This is definitely fitting the harsher style of the CC series, and some of the traps are a doozy... the archvile behind the wall of revs in particular. Architecture was scenic, although the constant theme of gray + brown throughout the whole map was a bit droll in the end. But it's another solidly designed map that won't be outshined any time soon.

My biggest complaint is that the rocket launcher was given farrrr to late into the map, since you can pretty much exit at that point. I had to run past some of the traps earlier on because I didn't have the proper arsenal to deal with the baddies. Oh, putting a chaingunner right in your face at the top of an elevator is a dick move.

MAP10: (pistol start) Now this is a pretty big send-off for the first ten maps. A large level infested with a various mix of baddies that takes over half an hour to complete. And it's not that it's a dense level, but that there is a whole army just waiting to enter a teleporter and rip you a new one.

No gripes here though, although I usually had to die once in order to know where they were coming from. I like that they come from multiple spots at a time and I'm thankful that dutch didn't abuse archviles in this map, since that could've extended the fights into an obnoxious territory. As others have stated, the layout is sublime and I never felt lost when I was shifting from area to area.

One thing I want to point out that I always love seeing in maps is the little details. Here there was a view into a bloody cavern, an open bookcase drawer, and the chair in the yellow skull-gate room... it's little efforts like these that make each level less like a hand-designed series of rooms and more like an organic, flowing landscape that I could see demons actually occupying. That and you can tell an author loved a map when they put things like that in.

So basically, a solid level from dutch.

Also,

@Phobus I think what was egregious about the chaingunners in the towers was how high up they were. I can see them not being an issue with mouselook, but you have to move so far away just to shoot them with autoaim while they can hit you with pin-point accuracy that it sticks out in the player's mind as horrible. I'm actually surprised no one mentioned it during playtesting.

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MAP11: The Grotto by Christoph & Josh Sealy

I'll sum it up in one word: ENORMOUS! Everything about this map is gargantuan in scope. The architecture is ungodly huge. I played this one in the beta phase, but I'm not going to run through it again today because, well, it's pretty big. I remember spending the best part of an hour on this level, although getting lost in not a problem as the areas are so distinct from each other. This map is a whole game unto itself! Difficulty is mid to high, the only time I had problems was running out of ammo when fighting the Cybies. I used every last bit of ammo to kill those bastards! It's a hell of an experience, but not one I want to repeat again, at least today. The design and gameplay is great, just [insert descriptive word that describes something really fucking big here].

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glenzinho said:

[b][insert descriptive word that describes something really fucking big here].

Ginormous

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i'm probably not going to be able to play Doom until Friday night, due to other commitments, so I shall have some catching up to do on the weekend!

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I might fall behind a bit, too, seeing that I'm pretty busy myself. However, I'll definitely get around to beating those maps.

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MAP11

This map was amazingly presented - looked great, felt epic, and the music was fantastic (reminded me of the underwater stage in Mario 64?)

It kicked my arse, but there was nothing unfair apart from lowering you into a bit surrounding you with hitscanners in the spider / revenant room.

Started off with a large cavern with little tech bits. Went down a rocket trail, populated by Mancubi, which was satisfying. Get to the bottom of that and there's a big dark 'outside' lakey bit - even if it took a while to get my bearings here it was never boring. Don't ever need 4 Pain Elementals spawning together, but hey.

Six keys in this map, and you can't open the last door unless you have all 6. Surprisingly for a map of this size, at no point was I running around lost trying to find one. Everything was intuitive, and I imagine that's very hard to pull off in a large 6 key map, excellent job with that.

That final generator switch - nice idea to surround that archvile with spectres so you can't really pick it off from the window.

Took me over an hour play time to complete this, and it told me my time sucks - heh, never seen that before!

Yeah, really enjoyed this. As I said, felt almost seamless. Best map of the WAD so far for me.

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glenzinho said:

Don't be ashamed to play HMP! The only reason I'm playing on UV is because I already completed the beta on HMP. I have to say that I didn't notice much change in difficulty from HMP to UV until MAP09.


I know, I know, I think I must be a masochist :)

Actually playing stuff like this on UV makes me appreciate the runs the top players do all the more.

UnholyMessias said:

Im not sure how you managed your ammo because I had 500 cells left at the time I arrived at the closing sequence, i could just bfg my way through the ending trap (playing with pistol start mind you). The map is also not that hard if you just try to run away from the trap rooms as soon as possible and let the monsters come to you. If you think this is that hard dont try hell revealed my friend :P.


I managed my ammo very wastefully I'd imagine! I'm pretty bad at Doom tbh. What tends to happen is I get to a bit where I can't get through the first 2 or 3 times, then I deal with it by spamming the plasma rifle, blowing all my emergency plasma! I'll learn.

I've watch some Hell Revealed demos on Youtube, I can't believe how easy some of them make it look.

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cor blimey map 11 is a big'un. Took and hour and 10 minutes to slog through that. Very scenic along the way, although the massive scale of everything dilutes the detail a bit. My brain is exhausted after that, there were some moments I was going to mention but I forgot them, all in all I enjoyed my time. There was a fair amount of map reading and a bit of backtracking to old areas to scavenge ammo and health - at one point i was running around on 1% for a while.

epic stuff.

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MAP12: Nectar of the Gods by The Green Herring

Love the ruins in a secluded lagoon & caverns theme here, beautiful work (as per usual in CC4!). Great infighting at the start, I barely had to raise my weapon... There are a lot of high level monsters in this map, but plenty of health & ammo and cover to deal with them. The traps here are well done and don't kill you on first time (well, except for one but I'll get to that). For those who hate PE's, be warned. They were pretty annoying in the the high cavern area and later on back in the starting ruined arena. Too many Lost Souls are spewed by them, making a real ammo drain, but on the plus side they take a lot of fire from the bigger monsters. The Rev arena/trap near the end is pretty rough... it seemed on first impression that not much skill is required to survive, just luck, although I figured it out in the end after dying about 7 times.

100/50/0 22:22 UV
Great map! Good blast and great battles except for what I've mentioned above.

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map 12 was a great sequence of battles, lots of tough monsters but always some cover to find and health to keep you going. The teleporting wall of hell knights was a recurring theme that made me laugh every time. Loved the end battle, I must be one of the few people who enjoys fighting revenants - their fireballs may chase you around but at least then you know where they are.

I crawled through the exit on 9% health, talking of which - I wonder what % of the megawad club will make it to the final map...

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mouldy said:

I wonder what % of the megawad club will make it to the final map...

I wonder what % of the megawad club will make it to the next map! A lot of people seem to have dropped off in the last couple of days...

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Map12

Wasn't much to this after map11, was just one set piece after another really. They were quite fun. Like mouldy said, the revenant battles were quite fun..after a couple of deaths there was always a solution.

Not much else to say, really. Couldn't be bothered with the archviles at the end, so just ran past them. Fun enough, probably suffered from coming straight after an outstanding map.

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glenzinho said:

I wonder what % of the megawad club will make it to the next map! A lot of people seem to have dropped off in the last couple of days...


Well the maps are getting longer, can be difficult to find time on weekdays..I'm still here cos I was ahead from the weekend!

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I will continue to fight on to the bitter end in memory of our fallen comrades.

Seriously though, if they can drag themselves through BF THUD then this should be like eating ice cream after a dogshit sandwich.

I guess some of these maps are fairly long..

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glenzinho said:

I wonder what % of the megawad club will make it to the next map! A lot of people seem to have dropped off in the last couple of days...


I'm seriously thinking of dropping out.

I'm on The Grotto at the moment and although I wouldn't describe it as a slog I've just arrived at the blue skull key when me laptop crashed. Luckily I had saved so I don't have to start over but reading here that there's SIX keys has discouraged me. I thought I was halfway through when I'm more likely less than a third. Although I'm playing in HMP I'm expecting a rise in difficulty also as there's not been anything too taxing yet and if people are taking 60 mins+ I'm likely to add another 50% to that knowing my orientation skills.

I've got three maps to bugfix for immiment projects and another three I've committed to but not yet started so I might have to sit the rest of it out. The levels, while undeniably good, are increasingly not to my own taste so I'm not as compelled to pick it back up as I was from the first few days.

I'm sure when I'm less busy I'll pop back and try out some of the standout levels.

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mouldy said:

I guess some of these maps are fairly long..

purist said:

I'm sure when I'm less busy I'll pop back and try out some of the standout levels.

Good points, but do yourselves a favour and play maps 20 & 21 by Lupinx-Kassman at least... you may have heard and it is true that they are absolutely mind blowing.

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mouldy said:
I wonder what % of the megawad club will make it to the final map...


I'll get there. Might take me (a lot) longer than a month, but I *will* get there :)

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Only looks like a few of us are holding the fort... (let us know if you're still here!)

MAP13: Viral Implant by Phobus

Here is the third effort in CC4 by Phobus, and it's his best of the lot (although I in particular enjoyed MAP07). Tough opening! It's not going to get any easier here, folks. The start gives you a rocket launcher and plasma rifle straight off the bat, which really sets the tone for the map, and you'll need them because the level contains almost exclusively higher level monsters. It is a castle/fort themed map, design is excellent (as usual blah blah). However, I found the difficulty to actually ramp down from the beginning, which I found to be quite hard, to the end, where I felt it was much easier due to the positioning of monsters and the proliferation of higher end ammo and power ups. This map may have about 2 soulspheres too many, though that's a matter of opinion of course.

100/77/0 17:41 UV
An excellent map, I really enjoyed it.

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Hey guys, I have something to address. Purist, Capellan, gun_psycho, Matt and I (as well as Hellbent presumably) have fallen behind, and each day that goes by makes it harder to catch up, especially since some of the maps take quite a long time now. The only posters still on track are glenzinho, mouldy, kaihoisa, and I wonder if it's at all possible that we could take a brief break, like about a week or so.

Of course, this is up to two groups of people: those ahead and those behind. If glenzinho, mouldy and kaihoisa want to keep going, they can, but I think it's more helpful when we're all trying to progress at the same pace. However, if those behind don't see themselves doing a map a day after the break, there's no point in holding the more tenacious players back. I'm definitely going to be on track after a couple of days once I get my submission for Panophobia out of the way, but I don't know about the others.

So what do you guys think? Any suggestions or alternatives are welcome. I'd even consider a map per two days.

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My thoughts on maps11 till 13:

Map11: Huge map and really good. Joshy is one of my favourite map makers so no surprise :).
Map12: Average map, not too great but not bad either. The pain elementals were really annoying aside from that some ok fights. Nothing that special.
Map13: My thoughts are pretty much the same as glenzinho, i didnt like either of the previous maps by phobus but this one is pretty good. The visuals are really nice and there are some good fights with the archies and revs in the tunnels. I agree with glenzinho that there was too much health, 2 less soulshperes would have been perfect. Aside from that good job :).

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@dobugabumaru: Don't hold back on my account. There's no guarantee I will catch up - even with the break in place. I might have to reserve participation for when a megawad with normal sized maps.

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glenzinho said:

Only looks like a few of us are holding the fort... (let us know if you're still here!)

There's always us lurkers.

Please don't take a break, were going slow enough as it is.


MAP13: I didn't care much for this map. The lack of keys and switches make most areas seem pointless. Also the lack of shotguns and chaingun severely cramped my play style (I've never liked the plasma.) The looks were fine I suppose, but nothing stood out in my mind.

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Well, now for my overdue thoughts to make up for being slow. (btw, I played through those in one attempt, as I don't feel like restarting.

Map10: A map of 500+ monsters and tight spaces, yeah I figured it'd be a tough one.
Map11: This one I knew would take a long time (44-something minutes, to be exact.) to beat...but the number of secrets was still nothing to laugh at. (11 in Map11 vs. Map08's 16) I pretty much think the others' opinions on this one did the talking for me.
Map12: Nowhere near as monster-heavy, but the last part right before the three-archvile ambush was just brutal! Mancs and Revvies and a few Chaingunners.

I'm gonna need a short rest before I tackle Map13.

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I have mixed feelings about map 13, it started out in epic fashion but the army of monsters I expected to materialise in those massive spaces never appeared, and i spent the last half wandering around the huge empty area looking for the way out. The fights were really cool though when they were happening, i really like the choice of weaponry and nearly killed myself shooting a rocket at an invisible demon. I was left hungry for more monsters, maybe i'm just a bit greedy - but with all that empty space to run around in it seemed weird most of the enemies were stuck up on platforms.

Enjoying Matt534Dog's videos by the way. Sounds like he was close to throwing his computer out the window on the last one.

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Map 13

It was a nice change of pace, just to put away the guns and spend a whole level firing rockets and plasma at big guys.

I normally save plasma for big ambushes, so it did feel kinda weird spunking it away when a shotgun would normally have done. Still, it's not like the mapper didn't provide enough cells.

Fairly easy, and fairly fun. You're not going to die in this level unless you're careless.

Re: one map a day discussion above - I'm easy. I'll probably play a few over the weekend so I'll be ahead anyway.

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