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dobu gabu maru

The DWmegawad Club Plays: CC4 (Starting JENESIS Oct. 1st!)

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MAP20 & 21: Interstellar Sickness/Shaman's Device by Lupinx-Kassman

The floating space station in Map 20 is incredibly well done. There are some great battles, namely the Revs at the base of the stairs leading to the end; The 2 Spiderminds & Revs/Former Humans, which you definitely don't need the Invuln secret to beat; The Cybie in the surreal floating area; the key garden, with the corpses that teleport in followed by the Archviles. The end corridor hints at what's to come.

MAP20 100/98/20 24:36 UV
The soulsphere secret had a nice easter egg.

It was an excellent idea to place these two maps in the 20/21 slots, as the episode text (along with the consoles) really help put over the mini-story within the greater CC4 collection. This level is where the surreal and futuristic visuals kick in, and really this looks more like a futuristic base then anything I have ever seen attempted in Doom before. The scrolling outside walls remind me of the lightsaber fight sequence area in Star Wars Episode 1 with Obi-Wan & Qi-Gong against Darth Maul. This map is really too epic to put into words, just play and enjoy! One little bit I enjoyed was the console text at the very end which reads "I do have one last request for you. Entertain the Archviles." That raised a chuckle.

MAP21 100/84/50 44:49 UV
Most overrated map of 2012 LordK? The thing with hype is that where there's smoke, there's usually fire.

MAP22: Hell's Limits by C3ON9

Very Plutonia inspired, as mentioned here previously, in fact this wouldn't be out of place in the original Plutonia or either of its two fan made sequels. Small compact areas, long square corridors, tough battles and sparse health & ammo.

85/91/0 19:00 UV
A nice bit of final Dooming after those two out of this world levels.

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purist said:

Has the next megawad been decided on yet? I'm hoping to get re-involved with DWMWC next time around.


It depends what most people want to play next. We could try and aim for playing through a new release, play an older megawad, or even play something small. Personally I’ve wanted to give Cannonball’s Sparta a try, and since it’s only a few maps, it shouldn’t be too bad. The big releases in the following months that I know about are TNT2, Interception, Prog fic, and Panophobia, and I think it’d be cool if we gave each of them a go. But it's up to everyone else. I figure we'll be open to suggestions once we're officially done with CC4, which is the 16th IIRC.

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MAP17: Another fun level with a surprising theme I don’t see outside of CFT. I was a bit confused by the block monster lines in the starting arena, since I thought pinkies + masses of zombiemen would make a good combination, but I could hide in the cave easily for a breather. Inside the facility was pretty fun. The level had plenty of enemies that each encounter felt frantic, although the amount of HKs in the beginning did make the fights overstay their welcome once everyone else was dealt with.

Problems I had are ones that were already addressed. The symmetry isn’t bad as long as gameplay changes (as Capellan noted), and I actually didn’t mind any of the symmetry anywhere else, except for that upstairs area. Second issue is the superfluous amount of ammo. It was neat to play a level completely saturated with small items everywhere but by the end I didn’t care about wasting ammo of any type, since there was plenty strewn throughout the level. Health was also excessive, although not to the degree the ammo was. Final issue is that it was a bit of a switch hunt. It would’ve been nice to label the switch that opened up the blue side of the map as something blue (so you’d know what it affected), but instead I had to just run around looking for what it changed.

But despite these complaints, the map did have some neat highlights. Running to get the SSG in the blue/red key room and dealing with a slew of HKs, pinkies, chaingunners on ledges and imps was really fun, and I really enjoyed the AV placement. Specifically after picking up the blue key. I personally love the idea of fighting two AVs at once since one can cause trouble while the other provides cover fire for him, so seeing two of them warp into a massive arena with plenty of corpses gets the blood pumping pretty fast. And as opposed to MAP16, there was plenty of cover (I have no idea how you were supposed to fight 4 AVs in that arena in MAP16 without using the door). Visuals were also great too. Didn't find it ugly at all.

I think it’s another high quality map, although I prefer Leaver’s efforts from CC1 (which were some of the best maps out of the whole megawad in my opinion).

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MAP18: Now THIS is a big level. Took me 52 minutes to finish, which is the longest level of the mapset so far. It combines the large space of MAP11 with the small and articulate detail of all the previous levels. Visually and architecturally, I think it’s probably the best looking level so far. Each room feels handcrafted and exquisitely detailed, and with a wide variety of textures and light ranges there’s a lot to marvel at.

While very fun and challenging (placing a cybie in the streets was a brilliant idea!), I feel like the map could’ve benefited from being more... nonlinear. I got lost after picking up the red keycard and while most of the level was straightforward, it just felt too linear for being a large city. Many parts boiled down to press a switch -> find what door it opened -> find switch in new area, repeat. If most of the doors were just normal doors, I feel like it’d end up being more chaotic but more fun. Besides that, it was a great, sans exhausting, level. The yellow skull key building was my favorite.

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MAP19: Have you ever danced with the devil in the pale moonlight? Because if you haven’t, then you haven’t played this map.

For the first seven minutes, this level is pure adrenaline. You run out of the prison frantically searching for weapons, ammo and cover, trying to get the guards to infight, and then you descend into the caverns just to run into the centerpiece of the whole level… the technoprison. Even with save abuse I died frequently, but I had a blast doing so because there wasn’t one moment where I could rest. Even after escaping out there’s still a couple of traps left to tackle, and I ended up returning the technoprison to duel the cybies, which came down to a close battle (rockets where whizzing by doomguy's nose).

What I like about this map is how short, yet jam-packed it is, coming off the heels of the longest map. It’s like an exciting interlude that changes the pace from slow and conservative playing to thinking on your feet. And I really appreciated how the arenas were shaped, particularly the L-shaped area the third cybie is in.

Only nitpicks (I’m always going to have them) is that the AV at the red key felt very unimaginative and kind of just there to sap health, and that there was a lot of switch hunting towards the end, which slowed the pace down considerably (instead of just red key -> red door -> exit). But that’s about it.

Definitely one of my favorites so far. Tomorrow I’ll tackle lupinx-Kassman’s masterpieces.

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If you want to play Sparta, hopefully the bugfixed released should be on idgames by the end of playing CC4 :)
I might have to join the bandwagon for CC4 as I can't exactly participate on a wad which I made haha. I will start from map20, I missed the first 10 maps due to not having internet.

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Well here we go, map20 Interstellar sickness
We this was a large fairly linear level. Go all the kills and found 2 secrets. All was fine for me health wise until the yellow key trap which ruined me, not because of surprise but the fact I ended up in a tiny passageway with 3 revenants, they will fire at you and will hit. After that it was predictable lots of deaths until I got to the megasphere with the many monster ambush with 2 masterminds, After that I only died twice (one arch vile and one cyber from a rocket which seemed to miss me by about a metre but still counted as a hit.
Anyway thoughts. The level is more of an adventure really with gameplay toned down to enhance the visual experience of the map. It plays nicely and looks beautiful. Onwards to 21, just a question? would taking lsd make the next level look normal :P

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Map 21 - Shaman's Device
Well this went further than the previous level to adventure gameplay, this is one awesome looking level, so weird and wonderful. The gameplay is easy with a few exceptions, the two fights are the red and yellow keys with the cybers and the bit earlier with the crushers/archviles and hell knights. The end is easy enough with bfg though. A fun ride, if a long one.
Map 22 - Hell limits
This map isn't too bad. It's cleanly made and plays pretty good. Whilst the map is short you need to go through several areas numerous times. Not sure whether the author made this method work or not. I'm a bit indifferent
Map 23 - Melting Universe 2
This is an odd level, linear gameplay again, gameplay is pretty straightforward. The hardest part was the revenant trap before the yellow key, kept getting 80 damage of revenants every time.
The level is ok, looks fine and plays fine, like the last map, not much else to say, the level is solid.

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map 20 and 21 - wow! These maps looked bloody gorgeous, they really reminded me of phantasy star online, I wonder if the map makers played that... Even the music reminded me of that game, perhaps it was a little cheesy for doom :) but it certainly fit the techno manga space age style.

Things were so colourful and fragmented that I'm glad the routes were fairly well sign-posted or I'd have been hopelessly lost. I think many more maps like that might have started to hurt my eyes but it was a great little holiday from the doom gloom into the land of tron. The difficulty was nicely balanced too, some tough fights but nothing frustratingly so. I did find myself falling off of the platforms a fair bit, but i can forgive that when the scenery looks this good.

Edit: I've totally lost track of what map we are meant to be on so here's map 22..

After the excess of detail in the last few maps, 22 seemed almost like going back to bf thud. Its a solid enough map, perhaps the health and ammo was a bit sparse at the beginning from pistol start, but the traps were fairly survivable. The look and gameplay was very old school - come to think of it, for the size of the map it was a bit weird having all 6 keys to collect. Maybe not the most memorable map of the collection I have to say, but not offensively bad in an way. Oh, apart from having switch textures that weren't switches, that's always a bit annoying.

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dobugabumaru said:

Personally I’ve wanted to give Cannonball’s Sparta a try, and since it’s only a few maps, it shouldn’t be too bad.


I played through it the other day and its a fun set of maps, I'd certainly recommend having a go.

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MAP20: Sweet Jesus. This must’ve taken a long, long time to make. There are hundreds of little details in this laser-gated stellar theme park, inhabited by plenty of low level baddies to eat your lead. The gameplay is pretty straight forward, with no new tricks or interesting quirks (other than having imps fire at you from across the map), and the difficulty is surprisingly tepid for the most part. The standout battles were the PG gun room, it’s immediate outside area, and the dual spidermastermind encounter. Perhaps the only throwaway battle of the whole map is the fight against the AVs in the blue key arena… the flora proved to be a real nuisance when it came to backpeddling the hell out of there, forcing me to take a blast just to hide behind the rubble.

Honestly, there’s not much else to say about this level; it plays it safe. It’s a beauty to look at, is a decent length, and has the right amount of difficulty. Kudos to the author.

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MAP21: Although I’m not free from his grasp yet!

Man, this level was a BEHEMOTH. Massive, sprawling, and complex, are the first words to come to mind. This level definitely takes the cake visually, bringing a host of new textures to it.

It has a pretty hectic beginning, pushing you from room to room and dangerous walkway to dangerous walkway. Bullets are being fired at you from various corners as you try and work your way deeper into the alien device, hoping for rest and better weapons. As you proceed the design only gets more elaborate and insane, until it finally culminated in the “main room”, where you go off on a quest in the mechanical gut to find two separate keys.

The red skeleton platforms are definitely my favorite and there were a lot of neat tricks I liked in this map (like using the technopillars as gates in the beginning). I got lost only in one section (trying to open up the gates to the red keycard), but the map was so atmospheric that I didn’t mind. It also didn’t overstay it’s welcome at all, ending right when it should’ve (although I think it could’ve been a little more clear that the red wobbly gate was the hellgate). I loved the scrolling backgrounds... I never realized how much they add to the illusory depth until this map. And I appreciate all the H. R. Giger works thrown in.

However, I think there’s something that keeps lupinx-Kassman’s set of cosmic maps from being the cream of the crop of the collection, and I think what it boils down to is the raw gameplay. For a majority of both maps, many of the enemies simply feel... there. It’s as if they’re included only to be momentary roadblocks with a sign that says “SHOOT ME TO PASS”. And while every map has that to a certain extent, there were only a handful of times where I felt challenged by the enemy composition in both maps, as opposed to the run’n’gun vibe from the rest of it.

The parts I REALLY liked where the mancubus + HKs on the stairs area (the place with the first blue armor), the revenant elevator, and the cyberdemon battle. In the first, you’re constantly assaulted on all sides, in the second, you have homing fireballs which are not likely to explode until they hit you meaning the quicker you fight the better, and in the third, the teleporting gimmick works really well and the cacos provide excellent distractions. But outside of those battles, everything else mostly fell into the category above (in my opinion of course).

The purple area before the elevator felt very bare and underutilized, the red keycard arena felt even more bare with imps only posing a threat, the spidermasterminds were hilariously simple to dispose of one by one, and the archvile finale felt like a scripted battle, one where it’s impossible to lose as long as you pick up the invul (but impossible to win otherwise).

Perhaps some of it is due to the size and scope of the map... you can’t carefully place an enemy when you’re given a giant boxed room, like MAP16 (except bigger). Or perhaps it’s because lupinx-Kassman merely wanted to provide an enjoyable ride with high production values and moderate difficulty, and not something absurdly vivid and cruel like Insane Gazebo’s stuff. I’m not sure and it just boils down to speculation on my part. As it stands though, it’s a fantastic map with plenty of thrills, so kudos (again) to him.

Also, this is probably a point no one else is going to care about, but I often play some music while playing Doom (no offense to the musicians, it’s an old habit of mine), and Mars Volta’s “Viscera Eyes” fit perfectly along with this map.

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MAP22: A more traditional Doom level that’s easy on the eyes... glenzinho hit the nail on the head when he said “very plutonia inspired”. The interesting contrast between this level and the previous one (besides visuals) is the stark contrast in gameplay. Here, all the enemies feel very well utilized and placed in challenging ways, like the AV that is likely to rez sergeants after the RL or the caco who sneaks up behind you after the yellow keycard. I always appreciate it when I can tell the mapper wants to challenge how the player will react.

Problems I had were that the health was VERY sparse even though there was an abundance of armor (blue armor wasn’t really necessary, berserk pack would’ve fit in better there), and that the map layout was a bit confusing as you had to run around and collect five different keys and backtrack (and the keycard/skull locations for each key kept getting mixed up in my head). Hitting the yellow keycard switch to open up the yellow keycard door was the only completely pointless thing in the map.

Fun map otherwise... it would probably be fun to speed run.

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MAP23: A bit of an odd level with more sporadic design. Feels like it could’ve easily been at home in CC1. Gameplay was mixed, with some fights being very easy and others upping the difficulty pretty fast (like the chaingunners pelting you before the exit). Experiencing the revenant trap right after the helpless archvile was a very humbling experience, since I was blasting him away thinking “poor baby! You can’t do anything!” and found myself annihilated by the revenants immediately afterwards.

Only problem with the map is that I couldn’t pick up a consistent design or theme. Little details that were asymmetrical were neat, but a lot of the rooms and turns just felt... counter intuitive. Most of walter’s maps feel that way though.

Finally! I can go a map a day again!

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Map23: All around a average and weird map. Parts alternating tough and easy with below average detail. Ive never really liked any of walters map and this one doesnt change my opinion much.

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Map24: A pretty good abandoned base level, with a pretty cramped cavern area at the end. At this point, I may not have much to say about most of the post-Map21 levels.

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UnholyMessias said:

Ive never really liked any of walters map and this one doesnt change my opinion much.

Have you played his 1994TU map? It's awesome. :)

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map 23 - this had some interesting moments, like the previous map the design didn't stand out much in comparison to most of the others in this wad, but like the previous map there was nothing offensively bad about it. I think I've come to expect an epic map each time now so it feels disappointing when you get one thats just ok. I'm always a fan of pink intestines textures.

map 24 was a journey through a ruined and abandoned base, I loved the design of this, some real apocalyptic decay going on, felt like something bad had happened here. I especially liked the bombed out area with the cyberdemon, with silhouetted ruins in the distance, really atmospheric. Some neat little fights as well, and use of lighting.

I think thats me caught up now.

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mmm... so thanks to the feedback to my map, please don't take it too much seriously, is just a filler map ^_^! I'm just glad that TGH added it to the final project... anyway i'm glad that the big part of you guys liked my weird trip in the rifted dimensions canyon i've made!

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I'll momentarily join the club. maps 25-29 are my favorite in the megawad by a very large margin. These have definitely made it into my all-time favorites. Anyways...

Map 25: Nightmare Complex

This is exactly the kind of gameplay I love in Doom, ssg heavy, with bouts of plasma/rocket battles, lots of upper-tier monsters. All the traps are fun and come with fair warning. Pretty minimalist detailing, but it looks great and has a nice atmosphere (music is excellent). My only complaints:

- cyber after the yellow switch wasn't very threatening, mostly tedious.
- map is made drastically easier with secrets (most notably the invul in the marble room, though those 4 AVs would definitely be pretty hairy without it)

All in all: among the most fun I've had in Doom, great map.

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Map24: Amazing visuals, really feels like your in an abondaned base. I have pretty much the same feelings as mouldy, probably one of my favourite maps of this wad :).

Map25: Very good and exactly the way i like my doom maps, hell theme with a lot of heavy monsters. My thoughts are exactly the same as Ribbiks where the cybie was just tedious and the the invul secret makes the archie and cybies fight far too easy. Without that secret this map would have been almost perfect. This wad is getting better and better.

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Map 24 - Detachment
Wow now this is an awesome level. Beautiful design of a techbase completely trashed with dark rooms, corrupted hellish areas and areas of complete destruction. The gameplay was fun too with easy battles with some real nice surprises, the cyber/rev/spider trap really caught me off guard and luckily survived because I found the room of the beaten track with the megasphere. For some reason I really like fancy effect created with the use of voodoo dolls, where things do unexpected things. Overall this has to be up there with the best maps of any community chest let alone this project.

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Map25: Minimalist detailing hides fun battles with the upper-tier monsters, but the spider/cyber/rev trap caught me off guard as well. The cyber after the yellow key was a bit tedious and the invul secret for the four archies probably would make it a little too easy.

All in all, I had plenty of fun with the map.

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Map 25 - Nightmare complex
Well this map was pretty decent, I didn't dislike any fights really. I didn't mind the first cyber battle, a simple obstacle such as stairs can really toughen an opponent. The level slowly increased in difficulty, though the lone cyber after opening the red key door was a tad disheartening, I am there with 40% health and I just look at him and simply despose of him like he was a nobody
Either way the last fight was a little boring as I happily let everything destroy itself before clearing the surviving cybers with bfg.
In the end, it's a good level but I will probably forget the experience pretty quickly.

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MAP23: Melting Universe II by Walter Confalonieri

Not as highly detailed as most of the maps in CC4, but I liked the canyon and caverns theme. The liquid textures blending into each other are different but I thought it was good. The monsters on the cliff marked a huge spike in difficulty and annoyance. The areas after the blue door, particularly the fleshy ones, improved the level a lot. The vagina switch is certainly interesting.

99/66/50 17:26 UV
Strange level, a bit of a mish-mash. Some of the fights were ho-hum, but it's a decent level overall.

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MAP24: Excellent level. Probably my new favorite! It has a great combination of everything I look for in a level: nice detailing, thick atmosphere, clever enemy placement and a tense difficulty. I enjoyed so many things about this map, from the bleak outset of trees covered in shade and looming hangmen in the distance, to the shattered remains of an abandoned research facility, with boxes discarded and wires poking out everywhere. Ammo here is exceptionally tight, so it really does make you feel like you’re rummaging through each room just trying to look for something to last you the next five minutes.

Only thing I felt bad about is that the climax fight took place outside with the concrete and steel beams (where you get the blue key), which is only about 3/4ths through the level. It was such a great looking area and well-designed fight (since the arena is just as dangerous as the cyberdemon, and you have to deal with a host of cacos which eat up ammo easily), but nothing after that came close to touching its marvel. The room with they yellow key was pretty disappointing, since you can just grab it and dash, leaving the AV and his revenants to spin in their little tower. It was neat to take a trip to the caverns though, as a change of pace.

Man though, it was a blast. Lighting was great, being JUST dark enough to creep me out but not hinder gameplay, and the crumbling room with the rocket launcher was well handled. This was the only map where I went “awww!” when I finished since I was hoping for some more. I also like how the big doors had a slight delay when you hit the switch to open them.

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MAP25: A more traditional, but still pretty fun level. Reminds me quite a bit of MAP22. There are a host of traps and battles that are really exciting, like the baron and his mini bruiser bros after you hit the switch to get the green armor, and the caco revenant combo after the yellow key. I never realized how dangerous that combination is, since the rev missiles aren’t likely to run into the cacos floating a tiny bit above them. Also quite a few cyberdemons this map! Health and ammo felt appropriately balanced too.

Not too many complaints for this map either. Biggest thing I disliked is the four archviles that come out for the big fight after the red key. Two in a large arena are enough to take care of business, so when you release four you have to start the infighting pretty quickly, or you’ll be forced to kiss the ground goodbye. I also thought the cybie in the red key area was a tad much, although I never found the BFG which would’ve made this all more bearable. Good enemy placement otherwise (like the AV in the red key room to stop you from darting past all the revenants).

Also, SUPER small issue, but I didn’t think the UAC door at the start fit the level at all :P

I'm stoked for the next two levels, as I had a great time playing Whispers of Satan earlier this year.

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Map 26: Reaper's Digest

Pretty easy as far as map 26s go. Very pretty decorations and lighting. Fun gameplay, and an awesome remix of some ost. Overall very enjoyable map. Some minor complaints:

- a bit too much ammo towards the end (but hey, better too much than too little)
- swarms of flying enemies in big open areas are kind of annoying
- some of the steep height variations are kind of weird (yellow key bridge switch area, for instance)

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Map23
A blatant texture misalignment, and a small HOM. First really obvious technical flaws I've seen in the wad.

As for the actual gameplay ... it's not my sort of level, that's for sure. Mish-mash of themes, and a very "game-y" feel to it. No sense of it being anything other than a series of encounters. Certainly not a bad level, but not anything I'll remember in a week's time.

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Capellan said:

Map23
A blatant texture misalignment, and a small HOM. First really obvious technical flaws I've seen in the wad.

If you're talking about the misalignment after the yellow door and the HOM on the ceiling light grid near the start, both were fixed in the second release, as well as the hotfix. The first one was actually the result of a nodebuilding error! As for the second one, a flaw is not "really obvious" if nobody even notices it until after the pre-idgames/ version of the second release is uploaded.

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Map26: Quite a fairly easy map. It's got more than enough ammo for when you need it for the next level...and you most likely will need it. However, the wide-open areas with the big swarms of flying enemies did take a while to take down...especially the damn pain elementals.

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The Green Herring said:

If you're talking about the misalignment after the yellow door and the HOM on the ceiling light grid near the start, both were fixed in the second release, as well as the hotfix. The first one was actually the result of a nodebuilding error! As for the second one, a flaw is not "really obvious" if nobody even notices it until after the pre-idgames/ version of the second release is uploaded.


Conversely, if I notice it, it must be really obvious, because my secrets percentages make it clear that noticing things is not my forte :)

The HOM was in the yellow key room, going up the stairs after doing the archvile and revenant section.

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Map 26 - Reapers Digest
Ah I see what you did there Kristian :P
Good points, the map looks great, really good atmosphere and I like the music.
The gameplay is pretty decent but one problem, it's too easy. For the monster count, it took me over twenty minutes to finish, the pace felt very sedate, but there were few nasty surprises to go with it. If for example everything was quite and then suddenly something chaotic happened for no apparent reason then this would be great (Map24 did this really well)
By no means do I hate this map, it's really good and it's very whispers of Satanish. But it seems like the author toned the difficulty down to accommodate all players. I remember community chest maps being pretty hard in my experience.

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