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scifista42

Reviving Doom - I released everything I had

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26th July 2013
-----------------------------ATTENTION!----------------------------
I haven't added a single byte to this mod during past year.
Also I myself started to dislike the general idea, the side idcluded ideas and the maps.
So I decided to release everything I have.
I don't really plan to continue working on this, such a thing is unlikely. Sorry for disappointing some of you.
In fact, in that past year(s), I've got even more cool and whatnot ideas for Doom mods, and even worked on them, and even for months!
But I've finally abandoned them all.
Reviving Doom is the only of these ideas/mods which was actually announced. Again I apologize for making some of you falsely
expecting the (more) completed version. But this what I release is really everything I have.

And here it is: http://www.speedyshare.com/6EwMn/revivingdoom.zip
Mirror: http://filesmelt.com/dl/revivingdoom.zip
(Filesize about 1 MB only. It's not much.)

The wad is full of random changes and ideas made mostly just for the sake of random changes and ideas. Not all of them are good,
and not all of them would probably appear in the final release, if there was. But this isn't a proper release.

Read the text file included for more specific info what is in. Or look into the .pk3 yourself. DECORATE codes are all stored
in simple .txt file. Of course, I allow you to copy it and use for your own purposes.

Hope you can find this release anyhow useful or enjoyable. Although I seriously doubt that.

-------------------------------------------------------------------
The below is my old post left unchanged.
Hi, I would like to announce my newest ZDoom project. I was working on it for a longer time. It's for Doom 2 IWAD and it's for singleplayer, cooperative and also deathmatch. The project is not completed (and won't be completed soon), but I made a demo to show you what's this about. I also want some feedback to make sure if it's worth to continue with the project.

Note #1: The project title is tentative. Maybe I will change it.
Note #2: I plan to make F1 Help Screen for this project that will explain everything, but I don't have it yet so I explained important things here. Sorry for the long post.


THE MAIN IDEA

Zombies in Doom can be killed with a few pistol shots and then they don't give you any trouble anymore. Too easy. In this project it's different. Zombies (and imps) are undead, so killing them by a few pistol shot is not enough. After a while, they will get up and fight you again. I got this idea after watching this video of Doom 3 alpha version (zombies are behaving that way there): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXzJ0wFj-ag.


FEATURES
  • Weaker enemies (all kinds of zombies + weaker types of imps) have the ability of self-reviving. After they are killed, they lie on the floor as corpses, but after a while their injuries cure, they get up and go back to the fight. However, there are still ways how to kill them forever (see below).
  • Stronger enemies don't have this ability, but ALL of them can be ressurected (this includes Cyberdemons, lost souls, archviles and more) by an archvile or another monster with resurrecting ability.
  • Planned: 45 new maps (including secret levels) desined to be fun to play with these monster improvements. Maps will be divided into several episodes. The first maps will be really small and contain really low number of enemies to teach the player how to play this game. The last ones will be really hard.
  • Possibility to play original Doom 2 levels (or any PWAD) with these self-reviving monsters. (for hardcore players)
  • Jumping and crouching disabled, unless you are playing original Doom 2 levels. Freelooking is not disabled, it's even necessary to reach some of the secrets in my maps, but the maps can be always completed without it.
  • Modified version of Nightmare! skill level. If you choose this level (DON'T DO IT, MASOCHISTS!!!), all monsters with self-reviving ability will now revive twice as soon after death, all monsters without self-reviving ability will now have this ability (including bosses) instead of classic respawning, and you'll not get double ammo!
  • One new weapon, a flamethrower.
  • Improved berserk behaviour. Even more powerful and faster punches, but works for 30 seconds only and you cannot switch to another weapon than fist at that time. NOT included in the demo.
  • Improved BFG behaviour (although I will maybe remove it) - use it carefully, because the blast will hurt anything, including you. It also has alt attack - self destruction ;)
  • Invisibility and invulnerability respawns even in singleplayer game. Trust me this really helps (when fighting a lot of self-reviving hitscanners).
  • Several secret levels.
  • Deathmatch support.
  • Compatibility with ZDoom, GZDoom, old Skulltag and Zandronum.
  • Various other improvements of monsters and items using DECORATE.
To preserve the feel you are playing Doom, to avoid copyright infringement and to keep the file size to a minimum, I decided to NOT include any music, sounds, sprites or textures from other resources and to use only Doom 2 stock resources + very few sprites and textures made by me. Most of the new used textures (sprites) are just textures from Doom2.wad recolored/modified using TEXTURES lump, so I didn't have to place them into my .pk3 (which lowers the file size significantly).


ABOUT THE SELF-REVIVING

The zombies and imps will get up in a constant time after they die. They won't do so if something (you, other monster) is standing on their corpse. However, they will try to get up again after some time and they will repeat this procedure until there is nothing on them and they can get up.

There are three ways to kill those monsters forever:
  • Shoot them with a powerful weapon so they turn into gibs. Sounds logical, right? They can be turned into gibs by a rocket, exploded barrel, BFG shot, flamethrower flames, sometimes by plasma or some projectile of powerful monster. Note that archvile (or another monster with resurrecting ability) will be still able to bring them back to life.
  • Crush their corpses. By a crusher or under door. Then they turn into pool of gibs (normal Doom behavior) so they also cannot revive. This time, even archvile cannot resurrect them.
  • Stand a long long time on the corpse. After some time (few minutes) they will really die and stop trying to get up. This way is not at all advantageous when you are in a room with more than one monster, because you cannot dodge projectiles when standing on one corpse. Archvile, of course, can resurrect those monsters (when you're not standing on them).
Important note: In my maps, Zombies WILL NOT drop ammo after being normally killed. This prevents the player to use the strategy of accumulating ammo by repetitive killing the same monster(s). Zombies will, however, drop a greater amount of ammo after being gibbed. So the player is really motivated to use rocket launcher and flamethrower preferentially on zombies.

But, when playing original Doom 2 levels with this, zombies WILL drop ammo always. Those levels were not specially designed for reviving monsters, so the player gets this advantage.


GAMEPLAY

I am aware of that this modification of monster behaviour makes the game much more hard and tricky. I know that reviving monsters REALLY motivate the player to always go forward and try to exit the level as soon as possible, which might but also might not be a good thing. I tried to design the maps in conformity with that. The maps usually contain some sort of safe place where you can stay, think about your next step, look at the automap etc.

ALL maps were designed to be completable on Nightmare! skill level and also in UV Pacifist mode. Yes, even levels with arena battles (like the first tutorial level) can be completed without killing monsters. Not saying it'll be easy, though.

The maps will be divided in several episodes:
  • Episode 1. Very easy maps at the beginning, but the difficulty is increasing as the maps go. Story is the same as Doom 2 story, but you are a different marine at a different place. Generally more realistic design, but with low detail (I mean, it looks like a place where people can live, rather than surreal halls with shapes that doesn't make sense). The progression is very slow, I mean slow introduction of particular monsters and weapons. Stronger weapons are not available in the entire episode (except secret levels and, of course, deathmatch).
  • Episode 2. Direct sequel to the Episode 1. Harder maps. Generally more classical design. Not as slow progression. And very special final boss ;)
  • Xtreme insanity maps. Nothing common with the previous two episodes. It's there just to show absolutely crazy ways of usage of the new monsters. Super hard. Surreal design.
  • Hell on Earth. The original Doom 2 levels. You can also play this .pk3 with other PWAD to play other maps, then you access those maps selecting this episode. Only in this episode is jumping and crouching enabled and zombies drop ammo.
DEMO

I made a short demo of this project. Before playing the demo, consider this: Self-reviving monsters are something players are not habituated to. So I REALLY RECOMMEND to play on lower difficulty, even if you think you're a good player. Especially in the non-tutorial map. Maybe this demo won't be so difficult, but when the project will be finished and released one day, I recommend lower skill level, because the difficulty of maps will be increasing as they go.

Here is the link.

The demo features:
  • 3 easy maps (like tutorial) to teach the player how to play this game. Those maps are intended to be the first three maps of the 1st episode.
  • 1 map that is much harder. DO NOT PLAY IT ON UV on the first playthrough. A little different (-> harder) version of this map is intended to be the first map of the 2nd episode.
  • Some of the improved monsters.
  • Most of the new textures I already have. (there are some placeholder textures and sprites I will remake later)
  • The flamethrower, but with temporary sprites I drawed in 30 minutes. Its behavior will be probably changed also. The flamethrower is located only in the first tutorial map and only in deathmatch (where is practically useless). If you want to use it in singleplayer (of course you want!), type to console: give flamethrower.
  • The new BFG, but only in deathmatch. If you want to test it in singleplayer, type to console: give bfgun. Use it carefully, because the blast will hurt anything, including you.
  • All maps support singleplayer, coop and they were also designed with deathmatch in mind. For sure try deathmatch in the one hard map, it's fun even against bots!
  • You can test original Doom 2 levels with self-reviving monsters using the IDCLEV cheat. But the demo contains only some of the monster and item replacements, so it won't be the same experience as with the final version.
SCREENSHOTS

Note: this project is primarily not about maps, but about the monsters. The screenshots cannot show you how difficult the game is, you must try it for yourselves.

Anyway, some screenshots from the demo. First the tutorial maps: (I made them a longer time ago)







The one non-tutorial map in the demo: (I made it recently)





And some screenshots from maps not included in the demo:

http://i.imgur.com/Taaqe.png
http://i.imgur.com/3onGI.png
http://i.imgur.com/2uqo3.png
http://i.imgur.com/RnSrW.png
http://i.imgur.com/8GlUb.png
http://i.imgur.com/HYmwF.png
http://i.imgur.com/Ca2c5.png
http://i.imgur.com/mH9pF.png
http://i.imgur.com/xVfCi.png


FEEDBACK

I would really like to know what you think about the project idea, about particular features in this project (especially reviving monsters and the BFG), your thoughts about the demo or anything. Please let me know in this thread. I want some feedback to make sure if it's worth to continue with the project.


CURRENT PROJECT STATUS

Maps completed: 14/45
Monsters/things modifications: about 90% completed
Graphics (like TITLEPIC...): not yet


Enjoy the demo ;-) And sorry for my English, I'm not native speaker.

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Sounds great!! Why aren't more people replying?

I'm a little confused about the levels. There are two new episodes which make sense. But then there's an insanity level "episode" that isn't really part of the main story line of the game? And then there's Hell on Earth which is also just an addon separate thing? I kinda like my megawads to have all the levels be part of the same thing.

I can see the new berserk being really annoying not being able to change it. The berserk is already goofily overpowered--not sure making it even more powerful is a good idea (well, maybe a little). I like the 30 seconds till it runs out, tho.

Everything else sounds great!

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Thanks for replies!

Hellbent: I'll say it in another words. The story of this game will be divided into two episodes. Maps in this episodes will be seriously meant, they will be small, contain a smaller amount of monsters and will be difficult, but somehow still fair. These maps should be considered the main part of the project. And then there will be one extra episode outside of the story line. It will contain half-joke surreal super-slaughterish maps just to show how difficult it is to face hundreds of enemies that you cannot kill, you can imagine. Maps in this episode won't be seriously meant and should not be considered serious part of the project, just something extra for hardcore players. The "Hell on Earth" episode is there to play original Doom 2 maps where Zombies are self-reviving.

And the berserk - yes, I'll probably do something with that you cannot change weapons. Thanks.

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Okay, let's admit the truth...

I haven't done any progress on this project in past months. Not just because I didn't have much time, but mainly - motivation.

I appreciate your replies, but it seems from them that nobody actually clicked the demo link. Or at least, didn't give me any feedback from actual playing the demo.

You know, when I started this project at the beginning of this year, I had practically no mapping experience and I thought self-reviving monsters are innovative, cool and whatnot idea. Didn't know there are so much similar newbie projects nobody cares about.

Instead of working on this project, I rather started working on community projects such as D2INO or our new Czech community project of short maps. As a mapper with low experience, I find it better. Because I know people will play my and others maps and give feedback, which could actually help me to compare my skills with others and improve them. But working on a large single project that nobody will play - not.

As I said, I lost motivation. As it seems now, nobody cares about it, so there is no reason for continuing. But if I knew someone had played the demo and didn't think it was a piece of crap, I would consider to continue working on the project. So for now, I would like to ask you once again for some feedback to decide if I should cancel this project or not.

Thank you.

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The crushing polyobject switch was really cool! But why cancel when you can scale back to say half as many maps as you anticipated with 14 done it will make a very reasonable goal for yourself.

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scifista42 said:

  • Shoot them with a powerful weapon so they turn into gibs. Sounds logical, right? They can be turned into gibs by a rocket, exploded barrel, BFG shot, flamethrower flames, sometimes by plasma or some projectile of powerful monster. Note that archvile (or another monster with resurrecting ability) will be still able to bring them back to life.

Barrels should deal a bit more damage so that gibs are more likely to happen. Playing through the nukage processing tutorial map, I couldn't gib any of the imps with it.

scifista42 said:

  • Stand a long long time on the corpse. After some time (few minutes) they will really die and stop trying to get up. This way is not at all advantageous when you are in a room with more than one monster, because you cannot dodge projectiles when standing on one corpse. Archvile, of course, can resurrect those monsters (when you're not standing on them).

This is basically useless. It takes so long it can only be used in rooms with only one enemy, and it just becomes an excuse to go AFK.

I counted to 150 while standing on a chaingunner when I was low on health, moved away, and it rose up and killed me instantly.

Maybe play a squish sound when they get killed for good in this way, so that there is some measure on feedback to let the player know he has waited long enough. Otherwise, you should as well remove this option entirely. It detracts from gameplay more than it adds to it.


I'd recommend making thicker doors and thinner lifts, to make it easier to lure monsters at places where their corpses will be crushed.

Also, some of the tutorial doors are freakishly slow. I guess it's to make it harder, stranding the player next to the corpses that will resurrect and attack again before he can move away, but it's more annoying than anything else. Doom is at its most fun when there's not much level-inflicted waiting before action, and this reviving gimmick is better used to incite the player to constantly move forward rather than to make him fight repeatedly the same enemy in the same room.

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Gez said:

scifista42 said:

Stand a long long time on the corpse. After some time (few minutes) they will really die and stop trying to get up. This way is not at all advantageous when you are in a room with more than one monster, because you cannot dodge projectiles when standing on one corpse. Archvile, of course, can resurrect those monsters (when you're not standing on them).

This is basically useless. It takes so long it can only be used in rooms with only one enemy, and it just becomes an excuse to go AFK.

I counted to 150 while standing on a chaingunner when I was low on health, moved away, and it rose up and killed me instantly.

Maybe play a squish sound when they get killed for good in this way, so that there is some measure on feedback to let the player know he has waited long enough. Otherwise, you should as well remove this option entirely. It detracts from gameplay more than it adds to it.

Errr... heh, just between you and me - it's a side effect of my resurrecting script and I proclaimed it a feature. ;D

A little technical lecture:

SCRIPT 488 (int pp,int dd)
{
    if(GameSkill()==4) { Delay(20*dd); }
    else { Delay(35*dd); }
    Thing_Raise(0);
    if(GetActorProperty(0,APROP_HEALTH)<=0) {
        pp -= 1;
        if(pp>0) { restart; }
    }
}
This is a simplified version (without some unimportant checks of global variables) of my reviving script (Yes, I'm using libraries) that is executed from Death sequence of a weak monster. "dd" is the time for how long the monster's corpse will lie on the ground before trying to raise. If a monster won't be able to raise (-> remains dead), the script is restarted. But there might be a situation when the monster's corpse lies under low ceiling etc. thus can never revive. For this case, there is a variable "pp". After the monster tries to revive several times and not succesfully, the script is terminated. It's to prevent overloading ZDoom with too many scripts running at once.

Now I see I can add a line to the end which will play that squish sound as Gez suggested, thanks for that idea (and other tips as well :) )! Or maybe also squirt out some blood and replace the corpse with gibs at the same time...

And Gez, don't even try to explain me some crazy another way to revive monsters via dummy custom inventory and I don't know what. I need to use scripts, because the reviving behaviour should be different in my levels and in original id's levels - which already works.

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I really enjoyed this. It's great fun to have the undead come back to life and harass you on lower levels of difficulty. It still feels like Doom but now with added resurrection!

One suggestion would be instead of standing on the bodies to kill them off would it be possible to jump up and down on them to give them a good squishing? I'd love to see that!

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