Old Map Editors

[RederickDeathwill]

I've born in 1991, and I've played Doom2 in the 90s. But, I'm new in this WAD creation thing. Considering this, I just know "Doom Builder" (I've used years ago the Doom Builder1, but I've really explored all this just now, with Doom Builder2).

The Problem:

I can't click too much with my mouse, because I play Keyboard for 10 years now and, considering this, I have more "sensible" tendons (And I REALLY want to avoid tendinitis.) I'm loving to create WADs, but I love music more. So, I can't spend 9 hours mapping on the PC without resting. (A solution already tested to this would be a TABLET, for those that have the same problem. But the one that I used is broken now.)

The Question:

The thing is, I would like to spend more time mapping haha. So, I would like to know about the OLD map editors. I was wandering: The Old stuff uses more the KEYBOARD instead? There's some editor that is more "mathematical" (Text/DOS/Whatever), and that's still "recent" ? Because I'm in a Windows 7, so, DOS-Box and Alien-Randomness to run the software would be unpleasant.

Anyway, there's some good Map-Editor (Powerful) that uses more the Keyboard? That uses "text" somehow? (To create the Sectors, etc). And, a curiosity: What editor IDSOFTWARE have used to create the original Dooms?

Thank you very much for the attention, again!

[Blastfrog]

tellerstein said:

And, a curiosity: What editor IDSOFTWARE have used to create the original Dooms?

That would be DoomED, which was mouse driven, and it was written for NexSTEP comupters, and has never been released to the public. It'd be kinda cool if they did release it to the public, but from what's been described of it, stuff like Doom Builder far surpasses it anyway.

I don't really know anything about older editors, sorry I can't help in that way.

[Bloodshedder]

There aren't any traditional editors that I know of that are primarily keyboard-driven. They all tend to rely on the mouse to draw lines or sectors.

If you're programmatically inclined, you could try WadC. Or as an even more tedious exercise, you could write maps by hand in UDMF.

[GreyGhost]

I was just about to suggest WadC, or DH-dlc - which outputs binary or UDMF format maps.

[Gez]

Good old DEU was mouse-driven (in editor mode). I used it and its Heretic version HEU for a bit. Yes, it was possible to have mouse support in DOS apps.

But mostly I used DoomCAD, which was a Windows app and therefore mouse-driven as well.

[printz]

Sodaholic said:

It'd be kinda cool if they did release it to the public, but from what's been described of it, stuff like Doom Builder far surpasses it anyway.

It'd be cool anyway if they release its source code... maybe it could be ported to OS X.

[ReX]

You'll find that using just a keyboard for "conventional" mapping will likely result in poorer precision. The mouse, being an extension of your hand, allows better drawing on your "canvas".

Bloodshedder's suggestion to use UDMF may minimize your use of a mouse. [Incidentally, I was having a problem with his link on DooM wiki, so I am providing a wikia link.

[RederickDeathwill]

I think that a Tablet is the proper solution to this, then (The only one). Using the keyboard as a mouse (Through the Control Panel), is really frustrating and lack of precision. WadC didn't work (I have Java, and it seemed to be for Linux, since has some "makefile" files in it, typical for compiling something on Linux). So, I guess I'll have to adapt myself to Doom-Builder (I never used DeepSea, because it's not free).

Thank you all very much!

printz said:

It'd be cool anyway if they release its source code... maybe it could be ported to OS X.

I'll make a foolish question now:

That's not something that someone can ASK to them? :). I mean, did anyone ever ASKED to IDsoftware if they could release the Source-Code? It's just old, maybe they would not bother to do so (And would help with the IMORTALITY of Doom2 and so on). It's a foolish question because I'm not american and I'm REALLY "outside" of what was and what is Old-IDsoftware. So, in my innocent mind, they could release the source-code if they see that there's interest. Maybe they just thought all the time that it would be "useless" to release the Source-Code of it. But I guess we all would love to know how was creating maps like they did.

[Gez]

ReX said:

[Incidentally, I was having a problem with his link on DooM wiki, so I am providing a wikia link.

No, you're not, thanks to a clever and useful little word filter. Wikia is never the answer! :p

But if you want an alternate link to UDMF info, this one will do.

[Bloodshedder]

tellerstein said:

WadC didn't work (I have Java, and it seemed to be for Linux, since has some "makefile" files in it, typical for compiling something on Linux).

How did it not work? You extract the zip file and run wadc.bat. The makefile is only used if using 'javac' to compile the program, which isn't necessary.

[Fenriswolf]

One of the reasons I prefer Doom Builder 1 over Doom Builder 2 is that DB2 requires a a keyboard when you want to deselect a line. In DB1 you could just click anywhere to deselect a line or sector. Now you need to press the C Button, which is bad for me because when I am mapping, I often have my laptop in distance and want to work just with the mouse because I would have to lean across my desk everytime I am deselecting a line (which is, of course quite often). I personally find it more comfortable to work just with the mouse, but everybody has its own opinion on this ;)

[printz]

Fenriswolf said:

One of the reasons I prefer Doom Builder 1 over Doom Builder 2 is that DB2 requires a a keyboard when you want to deselect a line. In DB1 you could just click anywhere to deselect a line or sector. Now you need to press the C Button, which is bad for me because when I am mapping, I often have my laptop in distance and want to work just with the mouse because I would have to lean across my desk everytime I am deselecting a line (which is, of course quite often). I personally find it more comfortable to work just with the mouse, but everybody has its own opinion on this ;)

I wonder if it's possible to bind an extra mouse button for the task.

[Bloodshedder]

Fenriswolf said:

DB2 requires a a keyboard when you want to deselect a line. In DB1 you could just click anywhere to deselect a line or sector. Now you need to press the C Button

You can easily go to Doom Builder 2's preferences window, controls tab, and bind "clear selection" under Edit to a separate mouse button, such as MButton (middle button), which would correspond with clicking the scroll wheel.

[RederickDeathwill]

Bloodshedder said:

How did it not work? You extract the zip file and run wadc.bat. The makefile is only used if using 'javac' to compile the program, which isn't necessary.

Exactly :).

It just opens the "DOS Window" and closes it. Nothing happens. I'll try the "compatibility options", but by default, it didn't work. It does not run.

[GreyGhost]

Try opening a console window, CD to the WadC directory then run wadc.bat. If that works, create a desktop shortcut to do that for you.

EDIT - If WadC 1.2 bombs out with an unsupported version error, try using the release candidate instead.

[Bloodshedder]

Make sure you aren't running some horribly outdated version of the Java JRE as well.

[GreyGhost]

That also makes a difference, suppose I had a reason for disabling automatic updates.

[hex11]

DEU 5.21 (the DOS version) can actually be used entirely with just the keyboard. I played around with it like that, just for fun, but didn't actually make a map that way. It seemed a bit weird at first, but I think it would be feasible to make an old school style abstract map like that. I mean, similar to the original IWAD, where detail is represented more by overall geometry & general texture usage and less so by tons of lines and sectors all over the place. Try it and and see...

The other thing you can try is using a touchpad instead of the mouse. They're pretty cheap (I got mine on ebay over a decade ago for about $15), and many laptops also have one built-in. A graphic tablet (with pen) is even better, but quite a bit more $$$.

If you're running Linux, you can also try Yadex. It has a lot of keyboard shortcuts, and I mostly just use my touchpad as a pointing device (sliding my finger to select/highlight stuff) with hardly any "clicking" to speak of.