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tsareppsun

just a question?..............

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Does any of ya'll want to see the return of level area "KEYCARDS" in the new DOOM? Not so much like the classic Doom but more along the lines of the "MetalGear" series or more puzzle oriented like the "Resident Evil" series?

Opinions anyone?.....

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I thought the doom keycard system was the only way. Frankly keycards should be on dead pursinel in which you have to hunt for there dead carcuses in order to get the keycard or security pass. I forgot where i was going with this. Oh fuck

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Hmm, like Zaldron said in another thread quite a while ago, Keycards should only be used for small 'interesting' touches, like opening up a locker holding ammunition or non-critical story clues.

Personally, I don't mind if *some* of the keycards are important and need to be found in order to proceed, but they should definitely not be overused. Zaldron and a few others don't like the tried and true hunt for the key, but I quite like it - as long as the "key" ain't too hard and frustrating to find and as long as you get to kill stuff on the way :-P

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The keycards have to be back, only for certain things as Zaldron said.

But, it would be damn cool to blow locks with a shotgun or blast doors with explosions.
If you are being chased by a cyberdemon, you won't start searching between the car keys and the front door keys... you'll blast a hole through the damn door!

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Think about it in this way : if retrieving the red keycard can only be archieved after annihilating 400 monsters with your 500 rockets and your 3000 shotgun shells, why don't you just beat the crap out of that door? It's not that risky, it's quicker and it's cheaper.

I mean why the fuck should I navigate 2/3 of the level just because a wooden door or a 4 cm steel plated door is stopping me?

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...because gaining unauthorized access could activate some mean security system which could make it even harder to get to the exit - that's why.

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Originally posted by dsm
...because gaining unauthorized access could activate some mean security system which could make it even harder to get to the exit - that's why.

oh wise one,how could you know that?

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Originally posted by Dark-tenshi

oh wise one,how could you know that?

Because they would probably put something like that in the game...that is why.

But I would be tempted (a lot) by the idea of just blowing the door away instead of searching for a keycard...I mean if you had to search a carcass for it and you have just spent about 3 hours blowing away 50000 enemies and you then have to search everyone to find it...blowing the door away is 1. easier 2. quicker 3. more fun.

There.

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Security Turrets vs the Deepest Human Fear.

Yeah right, I'm all for the unauthorized access.

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Hm, I always thought that id wouldn't put stuff like destructible terrain in their games.
So if you can't destroy walls in Doom 3, how would you be able to blast a door away?
Btw, the level would probably end too quickly if you can just blast your way through locked doors and solid walls, not to mention that it would take out the joy of exploration - id don't want that, they want the player to explore most, if not all of their masterpiece.

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Originally posted by dsm
Hm, I always thought that id wouldn't put stuff like destructible terrain in their games.
So if you can't destroy walls in Doom 3, how would you be able to blast a door away?
Btw, the level would probably end too quickly if you can just blast your way through locked doors and solid walls, not to mention that it would take out the joy of exploration - id don't want that, they want the player to explore most, if not all of their masterpiece.

Duh, it's scripted.

And that won't make the game shorter. Fuck, you're supposed to navigate those levels because you're looking for something else. What a silly question.

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Originally posted by Zaldron


And that won't make the game shorter. Fuck, you're supposed to navigate those levels because you're looking for something else. What a silly question.

Like a "key" to trigger an effect which would allow you you to proceed so that you can get out of the level?

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I agree with Zaldron on this one.

Id should enable some destructable terrain in Doom 3, even it only means that the player can, say, destroy a door in order to progress. The old Doom's "find the key" method wouldn't work for a supposed "ground-breaking" FPS, since today's gamers seem to want more intelligent and involving games. It seems as though finding keycards on corpses or in drawers would work more if only to get into lockers, storage rooms, security areas, etc., instead of having to find a key to unlock EVERY single locked door. It'd be easier just to break down the door, than spend an entire day looking for some key that will open it, especially since the Doomguy always carries enough firepower for the task.

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Originally posted by dsm

Like a "key" to trigger an effect which would allow you you to proceed so that you can get out of the level?

The point is to get id develop far more imaginative uses for the "key-hunt". Go find survivors, go find an escape pod, go find a communications device, anything except friggin keycards. Make the player feel he's trying to accomplish something, otherwise he'll realize the linear aspect of the game. Deus Ex was brilliant in this case, the major plot was linear as hell, but it seemed your actions had real purposes.

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Yeah, I agree too that Doom 3 should sport some destructible terrain, otherwise it wouldn't even be up to date with Quake 2!

Now, I feel that I've been misunderstood a little. I don't want Doom 3 to be all about finding a key - I just said that I don't mind if it happens a few times during the course of the game that you have to find an important item in order to proceed, because you can't destroy a door for some reason.

Personally, I think keys should be there, but only to open lockers, drawers n' stuff - and then I said that I wouldn't mind if you were forced to find one-three critical keys throughout the entire game, or maybe there should be 'important' keys available as a secondary method of getting inside a high-security room.

Now I hope I cleared things up a bit.

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Originally posted by Zaldron

The point is to get id develop far more imaginative uses for the "key-hunt". Go find survivors, go find an escape pod, go find a communications device, anything except friggin keycards. Make the player feel he's trying to accomplish something, otherwise he'll realize the linear aspect of the game. Deus Ex was brilliant in this case, the major plot was linear as hell, but it seemed your actions had real purposes.

I agree wholeheartedly on that, but another thread stated that these actions were "keys" as well.

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Of course, everything triggers certain flags when it comes to level flow. The difference is, you can do it with style.

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Originally posted by Zaldron
Of course, everything triggers certain flags when it comes to level flow. The difference is, you can do it with style.

How can there be more style than there is in a red keycard?

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I've actually always wanted a green keycard in DOOM. I really hope id puts one in DOOM 3.

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Originally posted by Fredrik
How can there be more style than there is in a red keycard?



::shakes head in disapproval::


...Fredrik, Fredrik, Fredrik...

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Originally posted by Fredrik
I've actually always wanted a green keycard in DOOM. I really hope id puts one in DOOM 3.

There was a green keycard in one of Quake 2's mission packs (I think it was The Reckoning), no kidding.

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I want to see the keycards come back. It just wouldn't be Doom, IMHO, without having the obligatory keycard search thrown in.
But that's just me.

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Originally posted by Fredrik
I've actually always wanted a green keycard in DOOM. I really hope id puts one in DOOM 3.


PLAY MORE HERETIC

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The whole "blowing away a door to get to the end of the level" would be easier, but their would also (hopefully) be other objectives like Zaldron said such as rescuing something or changing something or ....the list goes on.

But not objectives such as :
1. Turn On Power
2. Activate Train
3. Get on Train

Something more along the lines of :

Well actually I can't think of an example but objectives such as those above are pretty boring. Unless you get to blow away about a million demons on the way.

Maybe derailing the train would be better...

1. Stop demons by derailing the sons of bitches...

Heh heh heh...

Also...1. Place bomb in a spot to maximise damage to facilities.

<BANG>

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Originally posted by Dark-tenshi
maybe "find the exit" objective is still suited for DOOM.

Well, "find-the-exit" has been the main objective in any post-Doom2 id game so we can count that one in.
But there has to be secondary objectives too, like "Reactivate-gravity-processor-which-the-demons-have-fucked-up-so-you-wont-die-because-of-lack-of-oxygen" or something.

[edit]This is one where I wouldn't mind having to find a key - you'll have to need a key to be allowed to tamper with the machinery powering the gravity processor[/edit]

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