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Tristan

Doom 2 In Name Only - Now (supsiciously) on a load of gaming articles

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scifista42 said:

EDIT: I know that issue with my MAP19. I personally didn't mind it that much, but if you want, I'll myself try to get rid of all instances of clipping sky in the map.


That would be cool if you could fix it, the only places I noticed it were the 2 areas here:

Eris Falling said:

Also, @mouldy: Since you know far more about fixing bugs than I do, you have my approval to do that. Just post the fixed links here and I'll add them in.


Ok, if you like I'll handle adding updated maps that people post as well, so all you'll need to do is change the link on the homepage.

Did you add cannonballs new version of map 12?

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Gez said:

It's not a bug,

Which is why I was sad that it wasn't a bug :)

mouldy said:

That would be cool if you could fix it, the only places I noticed it were the 2 areas here:

I know what those are and I'm fairly certain there's more in there somewhere. At least on the path to Best Secret Ever, when the lift lowers, there's a lot of sky tiling visible. Probably in other places too.

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I'll continue with the integrating of updates, since I need to do SOMETHING :P
I've added new MAP12, and the latest versions of 16 and 30, but haven't uploaded them since the other bugs are present from the OP list.
Basically, once all three in the OP are fixed, and provided no new ones appear, I'll upload Beta V (D2INO_B5.wad) and the process starts over (supposedly).

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RSKY2 vertical tiling. Not a perfect solution but works for small seams I think. I can't actually try it in Doom right now, so someone else can give it a shot... (e: slight update since the first one.)


RSKY3 doesn't work the same way, the Zones of Fear one posted there might be your best bet.

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Eris Falling said:

I'll continue with the integrating of updates, since I need to do SOMETHING :P
I've added new MAP12, and the latest versions of 16 and 30, but haven't uploaded them since the other bugs are present from the OP list.
Basically, once all three in the OP are fixed, and provided no new ones appear, I'll upload Beta V (D2INO_B5.wad) and the process starts over (supposedly).


Ok that's cool. I'll just help out with any fixes that crop up where the authors don't materialise

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Antroid said:

The thing about sky1 is that it's uniform in content, it's just a sky, but trying to loop a city into a sky or mountains into a sky will look crazy, if it is even possible.

Well, it's possible, if you don't mind adding some fog at the bottom.



But that won't work too well with the stock skies, I suppose.

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plums said:

RSKY2 vertical tiling. Not a perfect solution but works for small seams I think. I can't actually try it in Doom right now, so someone else can give it a shot... (e: slight update since the first one.)

Hey, great job again. What do you think, Antroid, wouldn't this be a sufficient improvement? (Possibly with a slight further modification?)




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People are going to be too familiar with the original SKY2 to catch on to the floating city. Even to me, that still looks like a tiling error.
It's probably easier (and will keep the filesize down) to just modify the maps. AFAIK, it's only MAP19 and 31 that have the issue.

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Yeah, I don't really like how that looks. I mean I could buy that as smoke under the houses but there's another house peeking there in some angles that spoils the entire picture. Plus I'm guessing the entire thing had to be shifted upwards so that the top of the texture could be altered to loop but not be at the top of the screen all the time, or something like that? And, yeah, this is just too familiar a background to work on pretense like that for most people IMO. They might not even notice that it loops 'seamlessly'. I think map edits would be better, of course if it's not too much bother.

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Antroid said:

Plus I'm guessing the entire thing had to be shifted upwards so that the top of the texture could be altered to loop but not be at the top of the screen all the time, or something like that?


Nothing was shifted upwards, here's the original on the left next to the looped version on the right:



That is not to say that you guys should use the new texture if you don't like it, I agree that in those screenshots it looks funny still and that it's maybe too familiar a texture to pull off an edit like that.

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In my view, the Doom 2 city sky is just ugly as itself. :)
OK, as I said, I'm gonna fix the map.

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plums said:

Nothing was shifted upwards, here's the original on the left next to the looped version on the right:

Huh, I thought that since you couldn't see the blackened top in the screenshots, it was shifted. Apparently it just doesn't display the whole thing up there?

Also I kinda like the sky, I originally wasn't a fan because it looked like something that shouldn't be static (smoke rising, fires burning, etc), but I got used to it and now I quite like it. I only dislike when in a map there's nothing beyond a border fence so it looks like the map is situated in the middle of a lake or something.

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I had to replace my computer. I backed up my WAD files but do not currently have any Doom games or editors installed on this computer. I give you guys permission to edit, and even tweak level 11. Oh, and the music for level 11 is Ultima 8 - Pagan's Theme.

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plums said:

RSKY2 vertical tiling. Not a perfect solution but works for small seams I think. I can't actually try it in Doom right now, so someone else can give it a shot... (e: slight update since the first one.)
http://i.imgur.com/uVgMAdn.png


It's a cool trick in software, but for that matter it would definitely need a MAPINFO replacement because in GZDoom (and I believe Doomsday too) the dome projection of the sky would make it like it's pitch black when you look straight up, which would really be weird for a non-night sky.

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http://filesmelt.com/dl/citadel_feb2014.zip

Relatively quick fix - I altered all areas I've found with the sky clipping problem. They were more than mouldy thought. What couldn't be done for more than a year should be done now! :)

While working with this my old map again, I noticed that:

1. Building nodes takes more than 15 seconds. :p
2. The map's ugly as shit.
3. The map has some real weird and nonsensical design choices I wouldn't use now.

Well, I admit that player's aren't gonna have the best experience with it. Still, let's let it be as a picture of my old mapping, which will hopefully improve once.

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scifista42 said:

Well, I admit that player's aren't gonna have the best experience with it. Still, let's let it be as a picture of my old mapping, which will hopefully improve once.


It is a quirky map to be sure, and very unfriendly to players. But i have a soft spot for it for some reason, even though I struggle to get through it.

I'm curious though how you do playing it, I'm assuming you have particular methods of getting through?

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Ouch


MAP18, after the red switch is pressed Do you guys think adding more pillars would cause gameplay problems?

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Eris Falling said:

Ouch

It says purple HOM, but I don't see it... Is a HOM supposed to be on that screen? Or is it the kind of hom where all the homs are behind some other geometry and never ever visible?

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No that was just me messing about with buttons. Standing in that general area causes a huge visplane overflow.

I found one in MAP22 too >:(

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Eris Falling said:

Ouch

MAP18, after the red switch is pressed Do you guys think adding more pillars would cause gameplay problems?


A lot of vpos seem to occur when you have a lot of sectors within sectors, stuff like isolated platforms or perhaps those light fittings.

I'll have a look at it later

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mouldy said:

It is a quirky map to be sure, and very unfriendly to players. But i have a soft spot for it for some reason, even though I struggle to get through it.

I'm curious though how you do playing it, I'm assuming you have particular methods of getting through?

I'm not sure how do you mean the question, the map doesn't give the player many choices to radically influence the experience. While playtesting, I've tried to visit the parts in different orders, making sure there's no errors and the balance is managable, whichever way you choose first. Eventually I would certainly use the shortest possible path, of course. :) Unless an immediate ammo shortage forces me otherwise. I knew the map too well. Now I haven't properly played through it for... nearly a year? :D

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I had a look at map 18, I can get that spot down to 126 by removing some of the light fittings, though 126 might be a bit close for comfort maybe?

Its kind of a shame to lose the details, but at least it doesn't impact on the gameplay at all.

There is some strange texture alignment going on in those courtyards that bothers my eyes, but I won't touch that as it seems to be intentional.

Here's a link to the fix I made:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/f3mj7opa8po6kjz/d2ino-18-feb26.wad

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I was thinking one long row of lamps as 1 sector could look better than a couple separate ones... Might save a couple more whatevers.

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yeah i considered that, but there are similar lamps all over the map so best to keep the consistancy without changing too much.

Of course kongming is welcome to his say on the matter since its his map!

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If you divide a ceiling with square lights, you're creating a new plane or 3 between each light as well as the new plane for the light. Also because you're changing the brightness it's impacting the floor too even though there is no height variation so it's generating those planes there too. Basically doom likes to draw its planes in long rectangles.

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Unfortunately, Kongming's last post on DW was in this very thread over a year ago. I don't think I've ever seen him even logged in on DW since around then either.
The way I see it, regarding visplanes, is that 126 < 128, and if that is a true maximum, then there is no need to bring it lower.
I'll check it myself to see if there's any other overflows (probably should've done that when I found that first one, sorry).

EDIT: Heh

That was the best I could do. As I understand it though, 128 exactly doesn't crash. No other parts of that courtyard were even 120+

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i had a scout around myself and couldnt find any other problem spots.

I have a strong feeling there might be other vpo problems in other maps, as we tend to find errors that have come from testing in more forgiving source ports.

Cheers for the info tarnsman, there is quite an art to vanilla mapping which i've had to learn by trial and error, so i can never be sure if my solutions are the best available.

edit: I think I should sort that out eris, its good to have a margin for error.

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Speaking of MAP18, I love the music choice for that level.

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