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Revenant100

Doom 2 Minor Sprite Fixing Project - v1.9 Release (updated 1/27/18)

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Easiest solution - just show up at Adrian's house.
Dude's probably bored from sitting in front of his little Stonehenge anyways.
Try your luck.

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Revenant100 said:

Since every single other art difference introduced in 1.666 is a demonstrable error, it is highly unlikely that this one instance which bears the same markings of an unintentional reversion to an earlier unfinished sprite revision is not an error as well.

Also going by "simple logic," it is similarly highly unlikely that one of id's artists going to the trouble of specifically updating only these two frames would also introduce quite blatant jittering and flickering errors into the art in the process.

Hue hue hue.

Now that we know it wasn't an error, let me tell you how it went. I know for certain, because I follow even simpler logic that is in accordance with everything we know about id. They kept looking at the horribly square, flat, symmetrical lost soul and they hated it. Someone said "This thing looks like Wayne Rooney in 15 years, we can't have that." But Adrian didn't have enough time to rework the whole set, so he changed just the angles that mattered. "It's not like someone will study every pixel religiously," he thought to himself. And that's the story of how changing just a few frames is more probable than reverting them accidentally.

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If I was working on Doom as a sprite artist, I'm not going to waste time and just get what actually does need fixing done. The same could be applied here. Why change something that pretty much everyone has grown used to. People don't like change.

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One thing I do like about the old LS over the new one is the eyebrow ridge. It looks way too flat in the new one.

Also, I take issue with the trimmed intermission screen blood splat sprites and the realigned weapon animations. I actually think it's kind of neat how the weapons are slightly off-center. Note how it's usually to the right, implying that Doomguy is trying to center it but it veers a little due to holding most of the weapons with his right hand. As for the splats, the allegedly fixed version looks too small, and I don't think the dark brown shades are a problem as Doom's palette is pretty weak when it comes to darker shades of red.

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Sodaholic said:

As for the splats, the allegedly fixed version looks too small, and I don't think the dark brown shades are a problem as Doom's palette is pretty weak when it comes to darker shades of red.

They're actually dark green for some reason.

I think that replacing them with dark brown shades would be an adequate solution.

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Da Werecat said:

They're actually dark green for some reason.

I think that replacing them with dark brown shades would be an adequate solution.

They're green? Huh, odd, I didn't notice. I just did a manual translation using the desaturated red range and I think it looks pretty nice, and very close in shade to the original.

How's this?

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Hey, this thread has been quiet recently.

I wonder if you've considered including a small DEHACKED lump in your sprite fix WADs to tweak the firing frames of the Zombieman and Cyberdemon? All the other monsters are drawn at full brightness when they fire their weapons, but for some reason those two monsters are not.

I put together a simple patch that does what I describe:

https://soulsphere.org/random/litefix.deh

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fraggle said:

Hey, this thread has been quiet recently.

I wonder if you've considered including a small DEHACKED lump in your sprite fix WADs to tweak the firing frames of the Zombieman and Cyberdemon? All the other monsters are drawn at full brightness when they fire their weapons, but for some reason those two monsters are not.

I put together a simple patch that does what I describe:

https://soulsphere.org/random/litefix.deh


Great job! Never realized this before I began working with your code base... 17 years after I first played Doom.
Big "dang, how could I have missed that" moment for me.

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It's one of those things that are pretty hard to unsee once you've seen them.

The MISFA0 sprite was drawn to match MISGA0 sprite. Here's how it was supposed to look:



However, the rocket launcher was programmed in such a way that all of the muzzle flash frames are being displayed in front of the MISGB0 sprite. Here's how it looks in the game:



Now you won't be able to unsee it too!

I made a new version of the MISFA0 sprite that matches MISGB0:



Something tells me that my fix is too intrusive, but I can't think of a better place to share it. Note that the offsets were made to be consistent with the stock sprites rather than Minor Sprite Fixing Project's, because I made these wads (one of them is for Back to Saturn X palette) for myself.

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This wad contains just graphics, but it doesn't work in Chocolate Doom, it throws an error about missing frames ... why?

What is an alternative weapon fixing pwad for Chocolate Doom?

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VGA said:

This wad contains just graphics, but it doesn't work in Chocolate Doom, it throws an error about missing frames ... why?

It's because vanilla engine doesn't easily accept custom sprites, unless the wad replaces them entirely all. Chocolate doom reflects this behaviour, unless you use -merge command to load the wad.

chocolate-doom -merge wadname.wad
In pure vanilla, you'd have to use DEUSF.exe to add all non-replaced IWAD sprites into the wad before launching it.

EDIT: OK, Da Werecat was faster.

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Da Werecat said:

It's one of those things that are pretty hard to unsee once you've seen them.

The MISFA0 sprite was drawn to match MISGA0 sprite. Here's how it was supposed to look:



However, the rocket launcher was programmed in such a way that all of the muzzle flash frames are being displayed in front of the MISGB0 sprite. Here's how it looks in the game:



Now you won't be able to unsee it too!

I made a new version of the MISFA0 sprite that matches MISGB0:



Something tells me that my fix is too intrusive, but I can't think of a better place to share it. Note that the offsets were made to be consistent with the stock sprites rather than Minor Sprite Fixing Project's, because I made these wads (one of them is for Back to Saturn X palette) for myself.


Top job my man! Though I think that thing in the center that opens when you fire is intentional (I have no idea how the hell that is called).

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Has Romero made a downloadable package?
All the stuff I have seen on sites have been lame slide shows of the art in sub par quality.

Either way - awesome!

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Would the game/source port just use these missing frames once you simply add them with their proper names or does it require adjustments to the code?

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NightFright said:

Would the game/source port just use these missing frames once you simply add them with their proper names or does it require adjustments to the code?


There's 0 adjustment to source code needed.

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Amazing! In that case, I would really vote for adding the frames to this pack, then. Completing missing frame sets also counts as a fix, I'd say. And since they are pretty much official now that Romero posted them...

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I know Marphy has been on the lookout for these sprites for a while, so I know he's definitely going to add them. I'm just afraid that we might have run him off over the Lost Soul thing.

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Gez said:

The missing rotations for possessed zombies have surfaced! It's not really fixing sprite errors, but they would still fit well within this project.

And the Marines, now:

Great stuff, awesome to see these coming out. I'm really looking forward to an update to this project now!

Revenant100 hasn't posted since August, I really hope the Lost Soul discussion didn't scare him off.

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Nice! Big props to Romero, this is all amazing.

fraggle said:

Revenant100 hasn't posted since August, I really hope the Lost Soul discussion didn't scare him off.

No, he's busy. I'm under an NDA so I can't say much, but he's still very active though preoccupied with a different game project.

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Hello! I'm still very much around, but haven't had much to say as I've been busy with work (the NDA stuff is not a Doom-related matter), and there weren't any big updates planned for the project in the meanwhile. However, Romero's posting of the long lost and long-awaited non-mirrored rotation sprites certainly calls for a new update, so that's what I'll be working on this weekend.

Catching up on past posts:

fraggle said:

I wonder if you've considered including a small DEHACKED lump in your sprite fix WADs to tweak the firing frames of the Zombieman and Cyberdemon? All the other monsters are drawn at full brightness when they fire their weapons, but for some reason those two monsters are not.

I have considered creating a DeHackEd patch to take care of a few small issues, but I'll have to investigate compatibility matters first. I still wish to maintain vanilla executable compatibility, but I'd rather not have a loose DEH file floating around for the sake of simplicity.

As for what this DeHackEd patch would fix, there are the non-bright frames you mentioned, the Arachnotron and Spider Mastermind both having inappropriate bright first frames in their attacks (probably because someone at id just blanket applied brightness to their entire firing sequences), and, probably one of the most visually obvious errors, the Super Shotgun's muzzle flash lasting a frame or two too long.

Da Werecat said:

It's one of those things that are pretty hard to unsee once you've seen them.

The MISFA0 sprite was drawn to match MISGA0 sprite. Here's how it was supposed to look:

http://i.imgur.com/U6dZqYs.png

However, the rocket launcher was programmed in such a way that all of the muzzle flash frames are being displayed in front of the MISGB0 sprite. Here's how it looks in the game:

http://i.imgur.com/HmlEc1S.png

Now you won't be able to unsee it too!

I made a new version of the MISFA0 sprite that matches MISGB0:

http://i.imgur.com/8jNH2aV.png

Something tells me that my fix is too intrusive, but I can't think of a better place to share it. Note that the offsets were made to be consistent with the stock sprites rather than Minor Sprite Fixing Project's, because I made these wads (one of them is for Back to Saturn X palette) for myself.

Very nice find! This is definitely a fix I'd like to include, and considering the intrusiveness of any other possibility, I think your sprite edit is the best way to achieve it while maintaining maximum compatibility.

And now, the controversial part:

Linguica said:

This is definitely an interesting development, and I most certainly appreciate Romero offering insight that no one outside of the core development team would be privy to. However, and as much as I hate to say this, we should also take his word with some scrutiny as he has offered contradictory information in the past when it comes to Doom minutia, one notable example being the identity of the MARBFAC2 texture which he once claimed was a cut demon and later on the Arch-Vile. Of course, I don't think anyone expects him to have a picture perfect memory of what transpired literally two decades ago, especially in regards to two sprite changes, hence why it's important to examine the existing tangible evidence that's available to us. And believe me, discounting the word of an actual developer, especially one who who has been so forthcoming with the community and has now indirectly contributed a major update to the project, is not something I'm taking lightly.

In this particular case with the Lost Soul, I don't think Romero's wrong in stating that Adrian edited the Lost Soul's sprites to look better. However, I think he's getting mixed up on the order in which the shown sprites were created. As I said, the pre-1.666 sprites were based on the 1.666 B1 frame, indicating they came later. Hence, it is likely that the initial 1.1 registered version sprites compose the Adrian-edited art he's referring to.

To be clear, I'm not against making changes, but as I've stated before, no change was ever made lightly during the course of this project. Due diligence was taken with every modification taking into account every piece of evidence we have access to including reaching out to Romero when it seemed prudent. When this Lost Soul matter was first brought to my attention, I scrutinized all of the 1.666 and later sprites, the pre-1.666 sprites, the press release beta sprites, the 32X port sprites (including every single prototype), the Jaguar port sprites, the PSX port sprites, the recently released 3DO source art, the Reaper miniature (why not? id approved the designs, after all), and every single pre-release alpha/beta screenshot of Doom and Doom 2 I could possibly track down.

The biggest break since my last post would be Romero's posting of the Lost Soul scanned model. Unfortunately, while it does match up reasonably well with the Lost Soul sprite, it doesn't answer too much on its own. However, the presence of a single brow ridge and the bone in the nose (the vomer?) offers support to my theory that the 1.666 frames are indeed the older iteration as both of these details were later altered come the 1.1 registered version.

All of the evidence, most damning being the introduction of similar errors added in the very same patch, suggests that the 1.666 Lost Soul front-facing flying sprites are an inadvertent error. To rectify this issue, I restored the original pre-1.666 sprites. In light of this discussion, I have closely reviewed all of the material I have, and I stand by that decision.

If you do not agree with my judgement, as is made abundantly clear by some from the replies in this thread, then I offer you to view the circumstances in a different manner irrespective of which sprites are "right" or "wrong": the 1.666 Lost Soul sprites pose a marked consistency error in relation to its accompanying rotations and other sequence frames. They possess the single brow ridge and visible vomer bone that patently do not exist in any other frames. The style of fire is different from anything else within the sprite set. The 1.666 sprites also bear their own inherent issues with the inexplicable light flickering and shape jittering. Ignoring all outside investigation on the matter, I would still opt to use the 1.1 registered version sprites as they most closely adhere to the original stated principles of the project which are to address unambiguous errors in a method most consistent with id's own approach. In this case, I used id's own fix to fix id's error.

I don't consider this matter conclusively closed, but for now, I will remain using the 1.1 registered version sprites of the Lost Soul in the WAD.

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Revenant100 said:

As I said, the pre-1.666 sprites were based on the 1.666 B1 frame, indicating they came later.

I don't want to sound importune, but you can't really prove it. It could easily be the other way around. The skull photo is also circumstantial at best. Actually, I'd say that the brow ridge on the photo bears resemblance to both LS versions for different reasons.

But it's your choice, of course.

On a different note, I noticed that you're centering comet-like objects (such as fireballs with tails or the notorious flying skull) by their visible dimensions. I think it would make more sense to have the ball (or the skull) at the center, regardless of the tail.

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