Back to Saturn X E1: 1.1.6 bugfix

[galileo31dos01]

I found another minor thing:

 

 

In map 22, HMP, there are two different former humans overlapped. They are in the SSG area. 

[Da Werecat]

Ah yes, the forbidden love scene. Haters gonna hate.

[JohnnyTheWolf]

So I have finally beaten Episode 1. All in all, it was pretty good!

 

However, I am very much confused by the ending. Just what is going on there?

[esselfortium]

33 minutes ago, JohnnyTheWolf said:

So I have finally beaten Episode 1. All in all, it was pretty good!

 

However, I am very much confused by the ending. Just what is going on there?

The ship sank.

[JohnnyTheWolf]

I got that part, but then Doomguy just hit the bottom of the ocean and without explanation he finds himself on the other side of the planet at the beginning of Episode 2.

[esselfortium]

He was carried by the current and washed up ashore conveniently at the start of the first map.

[Edward850]

The transition from Knee Deep in the Dead to The Shores of Hell would blow JohnnyTheWolf's mind.

[Psyrus]

30 minutes ago, Edward850 said:

The transition from Knee Deep in the Dead to The Shores of Hell would blow JohnnyTheWolf's mind.

"Once you beat the big fatasses and clear out the research station you're supposed to win, aren't you?  Aren't you?"

 

But yes, what Essel said makes sense explaining the start of the following episode.

[JohnnyTheWolf]

You really seem dedicated to being an asshole, eh, Edward850? Not sure what I ever did to you, but whatever...

 

Anyway, KDitD does end with a text screen explaining what is going on. Given abrupt and almost dream-like the ending is, Back to Saturn X could definitely have used one as well.

Edited July 15, 2017 by JohnnyTheWolf

[esselfortium]

1 hour ago, JohnnyTheWolf said:

You really seem dedicated to being an asshole, eh, Edward850? Not sure what I ever did to you, but whatever...

 

Anyway, KDitD does end with a text screen explaining what is going on. Given abrupt and almost dream-like the ending is, Back to Saturn X could definitely have used one as well.

To be technical, the ending was made the way it is because Doom didn't give us another text screen until MAP30. If not for that, I probably would have ended up doing a more typical ending. Arcane limitations can breed creativity like that :D

[baja blast rd.]

JohnnyTheWolf, I remember you complaining about Mutiny like this: 

 

On 9/14/2016 at 8:55 PM, JohnnyTheWolf said:

It is a shame you only fight vanilla Doom monsters and not the cybernetic mutants or the regenade UAC Marines the readme story speaks of. :(

 

On 9/15/2016 at 6:39 PM, JohnnyTheWolf said:

I understand, but since you have no intention to include custom enemies, it would make more sense to have the mapset revolve around yet another demonic invasion.

 

I'm wondering if you realize that Doom is a game about shooting stuff, not a visual novel. Historically speaking, narrative material in Doom is supplementary and designed to be flexible in interpretation. You seem to take these things too seriously. 

 

[Graf Zahl]

1 hour ago, rdwpa said:

Historically speaking, narrative material in Doom is supplementary and designed to be flexible in interpretation. You seem to take these things too seriously. 

 

Judging from some of the more inane threads that occasionally happen here, he's not alone with that... :D

 

[Varis Alpha]

8 hours ago, esselfortium said:

To be technical, the ending was made the way it is because Doom didn't give us another text screen until MAP30. If not for that, I probably would have ended up doing a more typical ending. Arcane limitations can breed creativity like that :D

heck, i think ending the wad on a note like this is far more interesting than that boring text-crawl after you beat IoS, anyway! you're free to fill in the blanks yourself, and creative ingenuity like this in Doom mods makes them feel more than "just" the same demon-killing schtick to me.

[Da Werecat]

Wads should be more like Sunlust: actively mocking their own storylines, because taking Doom seriously is out of fashion. Hipster level names are just one part of it.

[Demon of the Well]

Hell, I quite like taking "Doom lore" seriously, myself, and I'll often make up some kind of story for WADs that don't really have one. This is predicated on the fact that I can selectively stop caring/thinking about it when I need to suddenly engage more of my limited brainpower to navigate around and shoot things and do other stuff generally involved in not dying a horrible death, which, let's not kid ourselves here, is really at the heart of this game, whether you buy more into the (somewhat revisionistic) modern design angle which prioritizes constant complex movement and arcade-style action or to the 'original' design angle which hinges on the sheer immersiveness of the simulation. Doom's minimalistic lore/diegesis is minimalist precisely because this is what serves the game best; it's imaginatively novel (if unapologetically schlocky)  diegetic flavor when the proceedings allow space for it, and never gets in the way or trips over itself when you're in the thick of the action; just suggestive enough to intrigue folks who get a charge out of this sort of thing (like myself), and unobtrusive enough to never bog down the game experience of folks who are chiefly interested in moving and shooting.

 

Part of what makes it fit so beautifully with the world and gameplay wrought by the engine is precisely because it's so vague and open-ended, which is a practical consideration as much as an artistic one. In an era before 3D action game engines allowed for very credible depictions of genuinely 'true-to-life' spaces, let alone for purely cinematic elements like cutscenes and the like, there was little scope for deeply nuanced plot/character arcs or things of that nature, and so Doom and its notable predecessors and many games that followed them naturally tend to treat story/narrative mainly as a frame for the action rather than as a scene-by-scene script for what actually happens during moment-to-moment gameplay.

 

In other words, for games like this, the real 'story' is more often told wordlessly through the setting and, for the best of them (such as Doom), through the level design; it's a story of mood, atmosphere, and location where most of the actual plot points have already occurred before the game even begins, rather than one of character development or a linearly unfolding traditional narrative. Both of the BTSX WADs we've seen so far exemplify this quality beautifully (IMO); their text scrawls read more like vaguely prophetic ruminations of some world-weary beat poet about what has been and will perhaps be, adding a layer to the general mood of portentous melancholy rather than being a dry recounting of specific events. Most of the actual story is told through the maps themselves, either in relatively straightforward ways ala the shipwreck coda that closes E1 or the gradual journey towards and eventual arrival at the titular Tower in E2, which wordlessly both tells the story of the downfall of a once great civilization (perhaps several of them in a repeating cycle of tragedy?) and frames the action by suggesting that history is going to repeat itself again on Earth through the UAC's hubris unless you, the protag, find the strength to see your hero's journey through to the end.

 

The rub is that this kind of approach to world-building tends to lose its capacity to immerse and intrigue the more the true 'objective facts' of the situation or any given location are expressly spelled out in front of the player. I reckon there's not a damn thing wrong with taking this stuff seriously per se, and to again use BTSX as an example, I reckon I wouldn't like it as much as I do if it made a point of being goofy and self-effacing in its presentation (folks fixating on its quirky mapnames are rather missing the forest for the trees in this regard, methinks); but getting hung up on stuff like minor holes or gaps in the plot which seem to betoken some mundane stretch of exposition to resolve them does seem rather odd to me, as there are other genres of media far more suited to satisfying that particular itch than a first person shooter with its roots in the 90s.

Edited July 15, 2017 by Demon of the Well

[dew]

11 hours ago, Da Werecat said:

Wads should be more like Sunlust: actively mocking their own storylines, because taking Doom seriously is out of fashion. Hipster level names are just one part of it.

Pfft, Joshy and I did that way back in PRCP and people whined it's too tongue-in-cheek. In BtSX we actually went a step further and the irony lies in overload of pompous hipsterism. The 10th anniversary edition of BtSX will feature extra Zdoom intermissions narrated by Alfonzo and RottKing, smoking pipes and drinking scotch in front of a fireplace. Frankly though, most of the subtle implications and environmental narrative was added in post-processing and we don't really know what's being implied or narrated.

[Not Jabba]

14 hours ago, dew said:

In BtSX we actually went a step further and the irony lies in overload of pompous hipsterism.

I don't really get this post-post-post-modernist thing where everything is three layers of bitter irony that is making fun of pretentious people in a way that's itself pretentious and nobody even knows who they're mocking anymore but they just want to mock somebody. Couldn't it have just been for fun instead?

[esselfortium]

4 minutes ago, Not Jabba said:

I don't really get this post-post-post-modernist thing where everything is three layers of bitter irony that is making fun of pretentious people in a way that's itself pretentious and nobody even knows who they're mocking anymore but they just want to mock somebody. Couldn't it have just been for fun instead?

Dew's post was itself ironic. We did it for fun, totally.

[Gez]

There is no difference between advanced irony and utter sincerity.

[[McD] James]

Played through episode 1 about a month ago with Project MSX. It's easily one of the best Megawads I've ever played. Every map is incredible. An absolute masterwork. The people who designed these maps are insanely talented. 

[esselfortium]

BTSX E1 Version 1.1.2 has been released to idgames, fixing newly-found VPOs on MAP15 and MAP32 and some other comparatively more minor issues! Fuck!

 

You can also now also find my contributions to the E1 and E2 soundtracks on Bandcamp, similar to what Jimmy already did with his BTSX compositions several years ago! Timely!

[leodoom85]

everyone knows and played this compilation of megawads except me....

kill me plz :P

[Misty]

1 minute ago, leodoom85 said:

everyone knows and played this compilation of megawads except me....

kill me plz :P

Shame on you. Grab this wad right now before someone will kick your ass. 

I guess, it's time to give run to this masterpiece once again tommorrow. 

[leodoom85]

55 minutes ago, MysteriousHaruko said:

Shame on you. Grab this wad right now before someone will kick your ass. 

I guess, it's time to give run to this masterpiece once again tommorrow. 

Noted.

I'll do a LP of those megawads. Count on that.

[Misty]

3 minutes ago, leodoom85 said:

Noted.

I'll do a LP of those megawads. Count on that.

Yes. Music, visuals are stunning. I can even hear first map track in my head when I think about this wad.

[Psyrus]

And let us hope this is the final final version.  Kudos to all the grueling work and patience to the creators.  Also just a heads up.  If there are some who still happen to be watching the ironman demos, do not accidentally replace/overwrite the previous two versions... like I almost did.

[leodoom85]

I'm downloading BTSX Ep.2 too, in case that I want more of it :D

 

EDIT: I'll record BTSX with D4T blind :P

Edited July 26, 2017 by leodoom85

[GarrettChan]

@esselfortium dew told me that Map10 had some issues, so I stopped running through maps. I want to know whether that is fixed. Thanks. (Whoops, I saw the posts dew posted in the demo thread, sorry for this.)

 

@leodoom85 Play this, and you'll never regret ;P

[dew]

8 hours ago, Psyrus said:

And let us hope this is the final final version.  Kudos to all the grueling work and patience to the creators.  Also just a heads up.  If there are some who still happen to be watching the ironman demos, do not accidentally replace/overwrite the previous two versions... like I almost did.

Right. I made sure we affected as few already existing demos as possible, so out of all the demos on DSDA just the pair of rdwpa's map32 demos will desync. Node rebuild was simply unavoidable there. Hopefully when Andy Olivera updates the download link, he will also retain one for v1.1.1 in the notes for those demos. We can also provide older versions on demand, of course.

 

The ironman archive was inevitable collateral. Well, at least the runs that get to map10, the first map that had to have nodes rebuilt. The change there is subtle, so I think my run only desyncs upon reaching the blue key door. So technically the vast majority of the ironman demos still work with v1.1.2, heh.

[invictius]

What does everyone figure to be the slowest system that will run this without frame drops on vanilla?  I used a p200 with mbf (only decent port with frame counter) and it would dip to 20 on itytd map 4.  Pulled out my p2-350, got down to about the low 20's on uv on the same map where you get the blue key.  If there's enough demand I'll do a vid of me playing the game on the hardware that could theoretically run it if the wad was somehow sent 20 years in the past!