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esselfortium

Back to Saturn X E1: we love fixing bugs

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32 minutes ago, dew said:

So yeah, update to this bug: anotak most likely solved the mystery.

I'm totally not jealous I wasted time doing other stuff and missed the opportunity to solve this before somebody else did. :)

But seriously though, great work there from, I must admit, not a familiar name.

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I think the fate of the UAC should have taught you guys that teleportation technology is dangerous. :) 

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Sometimes when the lines are not spaced a minimum of 16 units apart they won't trigger.  I have not looked at the map to see the distance between the 5 lines.  Just food for thought.  Or you can send out the witch hunters. :)

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3 hours ago, Searcher said:

Sometimes when the lines are not spaced a minimum of 16 units apart they won't trigger.  I have not looked at the map to see the distance between the 5 lines.  Just food for thought.  Or you can send out the witch hunters. :)

If this is true, it appears the right side of the outermost line is less than 16 units.  It is 16 units from the right vertex however, but you cannot cross over that part obviously with the METL4B support there.  I vaguely remember encountering this "16 unit minimum" feature once before (in another wad), but I haven't had this happen when playing through this map.

 

Unless I'm looking at an older version...

 

* Prepares a soul vessel... *

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Hi, I don't know if someone already noticed this.

 

Teleporter texture misalignement on E1M10:

20170408161635_1.jpg.fcfd6949dd236ae3adab591be34c2cea.jpg

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1 hour ago, Thenuke said:

Teleporter texture misalignement on E1M10:

Works for me.

Gy2zoPe.jpg

Perhaps a source port issue.

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Hi, came back with a little glitch, I'd say.

 

On E1M13, at the end of the level, the (fake?) teleporters seem to be flagged as liquids for some reason:

 

20170424141742_1.jpg.9f8d500369c924603de4b5e32fe51fc2.jpg

 

20170424141744_1.jpg.2e8ebfa3b8ad5033fd28b3f2c47e66ea.jpg

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42 minutes ago, Thenuke said:

Hi, came back with a little glitch, I'd say.

 

On E1M13, at the end of the level, the (fake?) teleporters seem to be flagged as liquids for some reason:

There's nothing in BTSX itself that defines any flat warping behavior, so the bug is somewhere else. What sourceport are you using?

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It's a special effect in Doom Retro that makes animated flats swirl, scroll, and bob instead. AFAIK, the port itself contains a list of exceptions for known wads - apparently, this list needs some work (and always will, by its very nature).

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Damn, sorry, next time I see a bug using DOOM Retro, I'll assume it's DOOM Retro bug.

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EDIT: Ah, nevermind. I initially did not realise the latest iteration of MAP06 now requires you to press two switches to activate the exit teleporter, the first one revealing a small room guarded by a Revenant. I guess the latter was the missing enemy after all, not a Lost Soul that has drifted outside of the map boundaries.

Edited by JohnnyTheWolf

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Lost Souls are not counted on the automap kill counter / intermission kill percentage anyway (except in some ports based on older ZDoom).

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Are there any backpacks in this mapset? I made it to MAP09 and I have yet to come across as a single one of them. It has been a while since I played the previous release, but I could have sworn there should have been at least one by now.

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1 hour ago, esselfortium said:

Backpacks are evil and were eliminated for the good of humanity.

Would you mind explaining why - preferrably in a non-sarcastic manner? :/

 

EDIT: Ironically, the very next map (MAP10) does have a backpack. I feel like I am being trolled by the mapset...

Edited by JohnnyTheWolf

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Backpacks do a really good job of murdering any sort of ammo balance in continuous play, and it's just easier to balance a mapset without them, especially in the early levels.

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14 minutes ago, JohnnyTheWolf said:

Would you mind explaining why - preferrably in a non-sarcastic manner? :/

The amount of ammo (ammount?) you are allowed to carry is part of game balance. There's a big difference between coming into a thorny encounter with 50 rockets or with 100.

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1 hour ago, JohnnyTheWolf said:

Would you mind explaining why - preferrably in a non-sarcastic manner? :/

As a mapper, my distaste for the backpack stems from the fact that it allows continuous players the opportunity to steamroll a lot of encounters. At the start of a map, what threatening setup can I throw at a player carrying 600/600 cell and 100/100 shells that's also fair for pistol starters? It especially messes with quick, short, and punchy maps, since ammo balance there doesn't matter as long as the player is fully armed For instance, would Ancient Aliens MAP01 make such a powerful impact if the player had an SSG and a cache of shells to take him out right at the start? Well-balanced sets like BtSX do their best to balance munitions appropriately across all maps, but for a lot of the sets I've been a part of, I can't control whether or not an author a few maps before mine spills a megawad's worth of cells all over the floor. This is generally more of a problem directed at continuous players, but a backpack definitely exacerbates this issue.

Edited by dobu gabu maru

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2 hours ago, JohnnyTheWolf said:

Are there any backpacks in this mapset?

Are you playing continously? There was a backpack on Map02, but it's removed. If you make runs from map to map, it doesn't matter since you can't get 50+ rockets anyway, but if you are continously, that would be a little bit annoyed, I guess.

 

Honestly, I don't think there is and there needs a balance between pistol start and continuous player... to me, they just like hardcore players and softcore players (may not be appropriate)... Some well made traps could be easily overcome by good weapons (sometimes SSG is enough) carried over. Just say it feels so good when you carry your SSG from BtSXE1M01 to BtSXE1M02.

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1 hour ago, GarrettChan said:

Are you playing continously? There was a backpack on Map02, but it's removed.

Ah! I knew there was something missing.

 

And yes, I do play continuously. I have yet to beat Back to Saturn X once, actually; I do not really know why, but megawads like this tend to tire me out and I just need to take a break after a while.

Edited by JohnnyTheWolf

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1 hour ago, GarrettChan said:

Some well made traps could be easily overcome by good weapons (sometimes SSG is enough) carried over. Just say it feels so good when you carry your SSG from BtSXE1M01 to BtSXE1M02.

This was intentional, though not entirely "that was the plan all along". map02 is one of the oldest maps in the set and even the decision to make its gameplay RL-heavy and SSG-less came before map01 was weaved together. Then Tarnsman added the well hidden, challenging SSG tangent to map01 and it just made sense - if you undergo the battle that's way harder than anything else on the map (except the solonet viles I guess), then you get a chance to "cheat" in map02 with a weapon that makes it much safer.

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39 minutes ago, dew said:

This was intentional, though not entirely "that was the plan all along".

Yeah, I see. I was thinking why this needs to be updated after 3, 4 years, and I did go and check the version differences. Probably I'm overthinking, I just feel like it makes more "speedrun" feeling. For example, the little placement tweaks of shells on Map01 makes you plan. Map02 gives you a lot of rockets instead of shells, but intriguingly put some Lost Souls at the exit, which gives you quicker way to handle monsters but riskier. Some small stuffs feel funny though, like that sole energy cell on Map03 ;P

 

To the question at the SR thread: Thanks for the explanation. I'm always interested in how maps work, like Scythe Map27. I got it now.

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Umm, ok so this is the thread, ok, first of all I'm in love with this wad, ok emotions aside, I found an archvile in map 17 that didn't teleport anywhere, and it seems like something is wrong with the linedef because he was running freely inside his room. Though I'm not sure if this is a bug or something I missed to trigger:

 

DOOM01.png.1a4993bfcfb5de7774ce298f0326c361.png

 

DOOM02.png.cd9d7ae62647d4cb42aad68b7b6600ac.png

 

Also, I didn't see any teleporter to get back to the previous big part of the map, before teleporting to the last section to exit the map. And I missed a few items so I idclipped. Is there any way back or not?

I'm using Crispy Doom by the way, and the last version of the wad (1.1.1). 

 

EDIT: @esselfortium @dew not sure if my post was noticed since this thread is now on page 2

Edited by galileo31dos01

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According to what's in the bugtracker, this was a case of the vile's teledestination being unchecked for skill 3. Which will be fixed in the final (Shin Ending 100% completion) version. Thanks for the report!

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