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Ribbiks

Slaughterfest 3 [Beta_C released, 05/08/2017]

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Grain of Salt said:

btw, on the subject of aesthetics, how many people here would be okay with me redecorating their maps a little bit? Every year i'm really tempted to compile my own version of the slaughterfest maps and ruthlessly redecorate everything i don't like, just to see what it would be like, and this year since we have 32 pretty cool maps and loads of time to spare, I might actually get round to doing it. Obviously anyone would be free to say "no, I liked mine better" in the end, so it'd be useful to hear what everyone else thinks before I do anything.


Mine was actually inspired by the aesthetics of your (and ggg's) sf11 submissions, so I wonder how much you'd end up changing :p

I had thought about asking ggg if he would mind if I made some visual changes to his entry that was made entirely out of that crackle texture (a map whose gameplay I really like, but visuals that aren't very interesting). But I wasn't sure if he'd be open to that.


Anyways I don't see any harm in you playing around with other's maps, as long as it's with their consent. The danger you'd run into if you made your own fork of the mapset is if at the end of the day when we're comparing the authors work to the visually touched up version it's very possible that gameplay changes or bugfixes happened in the mean time.

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Ribbiks said:

Mine was actually inspired by the aesthetics of your (and ggg's) sf11 submissions, so I wonder how much you'd end up changing :p.

Well, if my sf2011 maps were submissions this year, I wouldn't consider them anywhere near finished :p

But yeah, I don't think Temple Arena needs any work aesthetically. Everything there works quite well for me, and you couldn't really add anything without tipping it into overdetail territory.

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Ribbiks said:

I had thought about asking ggg if he would mind if I made some visual changes to his entry that was made entirely out of that crackle texture


Yeah, poop.wad, go ahead if you want.

Butt222 - I guess I want to keep that one as is mostly

mult00000001- GOS or whoever can do that if someone wants
(but 1: the blue columns act as a visual guide to know where other switches are at a distance, so however its textured some sort of visual guide needs to remain. 2: only a slight bug remains regarding monster box walls not lowering 100% properly (like some sections of the lowering wall go too far down or something) but I can fix that later.

Also I sometimes scale stuff to weird sizes, so if the maps have odd-length sides, it might be a pain to texture. And I tend to use right angled walls without a lot of stuff to snag you as you're running around (even pixels in slanted walls can do that) or like a wall made of jutting columns where each column can snag you because it sticks out slightly etc.

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Anyone out there fancy giving me some feedback on my map? I know the interiors aren't complete but they are mostly fluff anyway (worth exploring though). As a tip/pointer the building you start in is a safe zone that the hellspawn can't enter....

Dave

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btw, on the subject of aesthetics, how many people here would be okay with me redecorating their maps a little bit?


I'd like that, actually. If I ever get around to post another map, that is.

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gggmork said:
Yeah, poop.wad, go ahead if you want.

mult00000001- GOS or whoever can do that if someone wants

Awesome. Those are both great layouts, and I'm pretty sure I could get some good aesthetics out of them.

Butt222 - I guess I want to keep that one as is mostly

I really like the visuals of that map; it was one of the standout moments for me as I skimmed through the prerelease wad. However, even though I love the scrolling face texture stuff, I really wince at the wolfenstein bricks and grey techwalls. :/ I think the weird "brokenness" of this map would work a lot better if those walls were more muted texturally, so there wasn't a lot of pixelating in the distance etc, if that makes any sense.

@phml -- you're far from in need of aesthetic or design help, particularly from me, but if you were planning to focus on a layout and leave the aesthetics to someone else, I can probably help with that. Bring it on :)

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Well if you and/or ribbiks want to do mult00000001/poop, I'll just go with what you do so you don't waste time only to have me revert it. But for butt222 I 'reserve the right' to revert it if I end up liking the original better, but you can try if you want.

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I didn't have time to play all maps in singleplayer yet, but I did all in a team online. I noticed that Daiyu's chamber was much harder in single player than expected (yellow key + end) and possibly deserves a map20+ mapslot.

Grain of Salt said:

Hey Lagger, did you really find Exodus Remix as easy as its placement implies? I guess it needs a few more archviles and maybe a bit less ammo? :)


Actually, I tried to prevent to put all of Archi's map in a row. And I felt a split up in difficulty from the first 14 maps and the other 18 maps. Many mappers here have a typical mapping style and I can imagine people getting bored of doing 6 similar maps in a row. Hence the order. Yes, Exodus Remix was definitely in the easier catagory, but could have been map14 just as well.

Grain of Salt, please don't add viles and remove ammo. One thing I hate is a lack of ammo: how are you supposed to slaughter? If you want your map to be harder, perhaps more viles and more ammo would work. The player would get closed in quicker and/or get hit more often by (resurrected) mobs and it might be a lot harder to stay alive.

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heh, I didn't really mean it should get harder :) I was just kinda amused by finding it in the map05 slot, since the first feedback i got for it was mainly about it being too hard -- albeit more in the sense of being annoying and a chore to play than being an intense slaughtermap. I don't really care about comparing map difficulties to be honest.

@gggmork -- you have to right to revert to your version of any of your maps, whether or not you reserve that right. + I doubt i'll try editing but222 at all, I was just musing about how you might develop it yourself, since you only said you "mostly" wanted to keep it as it was.

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Phendrena, I played through your map, I think it plays quite strange.

The idea of a base being invaded is neat, but it seems like there are far too many spots where you're completely safe, and it's far too easy to door-camp kill a majority of the enemies. The notion of ammo and health being spread out is good encouragement for the player to explore during the invasion, but almost every roamy strategy I attempted was inferior to just camping one of the buildings with megasphere + ammo. Maybe it's just that everything is so large scale. This sort of thing worked well in those "seige" HR maps, largely because enemies could hit you from almost every angle, good and hectic. Also so many hitscanners that are very far away is kind of annoying -.-

Btw, some of your teleporters don't work well, monsters get stuck in the little nooks and crannies and won't tele in. See this.

Also I'm not terribly sure why, but once a 1000 or so enemies tele into the main area prb+ started getting unhappy, spitting out "W_CacheLumpNum: High lock on DSPOSACT? (15)" a bajillion times

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Regarding Firestarter - I actually think it became worse. And now I don't see enough ammo to deal with everyone. At least plasma would be okay if you decided to remove bfg, or more rockets. Much more. I ran out of almost everything on 300 kills or so.

On Phendrena's map: there are moving doortracks, some doortrack textures are apparently forgotten, and there are also sky glitches, at least in software mode. I guess this isn't the final version (is there a way to reach the exit now?), but I'm letting you know anyway.

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Hey, what is the map status so far? I was just wondering if my pathogen.wad will make it into the final wad or what do you guys think? If it does not fit in, is sub-par or just isnt needed or whatever I'll redo it into something a bit different and release it as a standalone map. Just wondering, hey!

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Nothing was rejected so far. Current map count is 32 (woo-hoo), though I admit slight probability that Archi could withdraw his Rush maps if there's an alternative and if he decides to continue on Rush eventually.

Judging from overall perspective (haven't thoroughly played through all the maps but at least took a quick glance at all of them, with some beaten and some more or less recognized) - so far this compilation hits the middle ground between sf11 and 12 for me. Not everything's ideal and the whole thing isn't utterly polished (yet) but there are some cool maps for sure. Even if no more submissions come - it's still a good enough offering for slaughter enthusiasts. But I don't take back my words regarding a break in series. Everything gets exhausted eventually, and this is no exception.

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@darkreaver

Apparently we have about 32 levels, if we get a couple more there'll be a democratic* process before compilation to determine which ones make it in the main wad. I really enjoyed pathogen so I'd be happy to see it included.

@demonologist

somewhere earlier in the thread this was discussed, my suggestion was to hold off release until 2014 to allow for the accrual of more maps, extensive testing, and to offer a break to those who feel the series is running out of steam. I don't recall if there was consensus for the idea, but it's definitely on the table.

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yo,

i have updated my map a little bit. check it out if you want.

zdoom version "2.4.0.2065" is the version i recommend the most, because i play this map always with that version and then everything is fine. when you want to record a demo, you can use pr-boom plus too. but on zdoom version "2.4.0.2065 everything looks and works perfect. i know the version is old but the map itself, is also very old. 5,6 years or so. so, please play it just on that version of zdoom when you want that everything looks and works fine, because i tried it also with the newest version of zdoom and also there it doesn't look not so good as in this old version because they changes some things. i hope you understand.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/puow3p

djd

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Demonologist said:

so far this compilation hits the middle ground between sf11 and 12 for me


Do you expect every release to be better than the previous one? From that logic I'd say we need more contributors or the project will take longer every year. Perhaps the next slaughterfest should be named Slaughterfest 4 instead of 2014, so people have more time to submit higher quality. Well, if they do...

However, it's also possible to just release something every year. After several editions you could build a "Best of Slaughterfest" or a "Slaughterfest collectors edition" containing all (best) so far. It is corny, but it's probably best for those who want something new on a regular base AND for those who just seek quality. Ah well, just an idea.

So far we do get all map slots filled and even tested before the end of the year. I like most of the maps for various reasons and think it would be shame to completely dismiss for example 10 of them.

I feel that the not so good maps lack original/fun gameplay, aesthetics or both. If people would offer and accept each others help a bit more (the way Grain of Salt offered and gggmork accepted kind of help)...

Grain of Salt, my maps will have some major changes first. I would be happy if you want to add better details later on.

darkreaver said:

Hey, what is the map status so far? I was just wondering if my pathogen.wad will make it into the final wad


I have played all the maps and got a list of it in my mind ordered by quality. Trust me, you're not near the bottom of this list. Then again, this is just my opinion. ;)

Some highlights of your map in particular: challenging gameplay, nice texturing, tricks/speedrun possible.

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Btw, Lagger, I'm playing your compilation now (it's much more convenient, even though some maps are out-of-date already... whatever, my intention is to get the point rather than to see everything remade and extremely well polished), so thanks for that, but it's not issueless sadly. There are heavy HOMs in Metastasizing Slaughterfest (map07) in prb+ software mode, I don't remember such nuances in original map, so please check that out, maybe you missed some textures or something like that. Otherwise, it's better to inform Daiyu.

And I still have a question about map02, is it possible to reach the exit at all (yeah, I'm too lazy to look in the editor)? Haven't seen any clues in-game. I already told about other (mostly cosmetic) issues in there, but I leave that to the map's author to solve if he's still willing to.

If it's okay I'll continue to inform on things like these as I move along, though I already beaten some maps before (e.g. Archi's ones and some others, too) so I may miss something related to them.

I think it's natural to expect increasing quality in sets like these because with higher number of releases comes experience (at least it applies to mappers who treat their works seriously, not careless junkdoers), especially when it's a devoted and organised team who stands behind, and that's why we're talking about exhaustion here. Keeping the pace steadily quickly becomes a chore rather than enjoyment. But even now I tend to admire current submissions, and I don't think this set is garbage even in its current form. I like significant part of it anyway.

And I'm glad to see more people willing to contribute, even if they're learning and aren't skilled in slaughtermap-making. I really am.

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Demonologist said:

Btw, Lagger, I'm playing your compilation now (it's much more convenient, even though some maps are out-of-date already...


Yes I'm not going to release another 25MB for some minor updates. New maps will do. The map order will change too.

Demonologist said:

There are heavy HOMs in Metastasizing Slaughterfest (map07) in prb+ software mode... Otherwise, it's better to inform Daiyu.


Thanks! Just tested this and it happens in glboom too. The texture pack is flawed. When I compiled the initial tex-pack prboom started complaining about 4-6 textures being incorrect and I removed them. All these textures were used as flats too, with exactly the same name. Maybe I should have used some other tex/flat order in the pack. I don't know since the documentation on this is really poor and inconsistent.

Daiyu, could you please rename those textures even though they look the same? Thanks.

Demonologist said:

And I still have a question about map02, is it possible to reach the exit at all (yeah, I'm too lazy to look in the editor)? Haven't seen any clues in-game.


Please, use the mapname since the map order will change in future updates. I did check it in the editor. It is time dependant and will open eventually after the invasion. The whole invasion starts when you get near the BFG.

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__Lagger__ said:

Daiyu, could you please rename those textures even though they look the same? Thanks.


One problem is, I am using XWE. I know that XWE isn't really good for editing textures from various wads since there's a lot of texture problems at the time other doomers are testing my map. SLADE is a better engine, however there's some errors while downloading, I can't open it.

I just download the wad pack with the texpack and then have a check on my maps. If I just click OK with "sf2013_pre-release_v4" highlight only, all maps have texture problems. If I do the same with both "sf2013_pre-release_v4" and "sf2013pr-tex_v2" highlight, no problems at all. I check all my 3 maps, including "Metastasizing Slaughterfest", ah finally I find those textures. The yellow light seems to have some problems. May try to fix it tomorrow morning.

Ah, "Daiyu's Chamber" in map15. However I haven't make any secret exit lol.

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I'm not sure if they are all yours but here is a log of prboom with the texture pack v1.

stdout.txt

R_InitTextures: Missing patch 2788 in texture QSLIP1
R_InitTextures: Missing patch 2755 in texture M_TILE1
R_InitTextures: Missing patch 2910 in texture LITEB2
R_InitTextures: Missing patch 2911 in texture LITEY1
R_InitTextures: Missing patch 3008 in texture LITGTHGF
R_InitTextures: 5 errors


It says the patches are missing, even though they are there. I don't know why they work fine with your standalone map. Maybe someone could explain?

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Demonologist said:

And I'm glad to see more people willing to contribute, even if they're learning and aren't skilled in slaughtermap-making. I really am.


just posting to agree with this. I'm certainly happy to see some new faces contributing to the SF series.

btw lagger I just played through the compilation, where did you get the title/interpic from? they look great!


edit:

__Lagger__ said:

What are the plans for any secret exit, Ribbiks?


Well seeing as no one laid claim to any of the special mapslots (07,15,30,31,32), It might make sense to judge which maps would make good secret maps, then work secret exits into the relevant slots after the fact.


edit #2: btw this was certainly interesting :)

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Well, I already do the changes on the textures. I rename the yellow light one as "YELLIGHT". I also do some changes on poorly done aligns(Change heights), and change some of the textures which doesn't fit at all.

I hope it's OK this time. If there's no problems, please replace this new edited map into present Map07 of the wad pack Ribbiks.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/xsjhkm

Ribbiks said:
It might make sense to judge which maps would make good secret maps, then work secret exits into the relevant slots after the fact.


Secret exits are all in Map15 for all 32 maps megawads, so I think the traditional way is better. If Map15 is OK, then I add one more secret which leds to the secret exit.

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Hey guys, thanks for the comments on my map. Good feedback. The exit opens after around 10-12 mins. Everything does eventually teleport in and yeah, lots of the hellspawn do appear to get stuck behind various buildings - I can only assume this is down to the basic AI in Doom. As for PRB+ sticking those errors out, you got me, no idea tbh. I am working on a revised version of the map that will reduce the amount of teleporting. Should be done in the next couple of weeks as its a significant alteration that I'm making to the map.

Dave

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Ribbiks said:

where did you get the title/interpic from? they look great!


Thanks, I googled those images. Then I added the text using wordart + photoshop. ZDoom will load the high resolution versions.

Not claiming any secret map, but I think my Trick or cheat map would suit that slot perfectly. I notice some people are just not interested to solve the tricks. Only those who really want to, should play it.

At the same time I can add a never seen before way for a secret exit, preferably on the Pacman map (can't explain why, it would spoil the trick). It would certainly 'connect' those 2 maps.

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Quickly thrown together infinite BFG map: http://filesmelt.com/dl/sf2013phml4v1.rar. Plays with CC4-tex. No difficulty settings. Co-op starts included.

Haven't thought of a name yet. Music is the first random tune I picked. Don't mind the visuals, either I'll touch it up later or bug Grain of Salt to do so for me. ;)

Tested it just enough to make sure everything works as intended. It might be slightly grindy if you play it fight by fight, speedrunning is much more fun. I'm open to feedback and suggestions (even sweeping changes).

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hihi, here's an fda for ^^: http://www.mediafire.com/?lv6yyfe4hlfus8t

you're probably going to be unhappy with how I played it, I played relatively slowly and cheesed the last fight pretty hard, and also the RSK AVs :p

oh yeah, suggestions:

- make last fight less cheesable? I imagine you intended for it to be played by pillar humping and megasphere grabbing while spamming the AVs?
- make cgs, AVs reveal upon grabbing RSK?

that aside the encounters were very fun, I applaud the backward-facing monster usage, lets you get a grip of the situation before you dive in. And indeed this map does seem like it would be fun to speed through. anyways good stuff, glad we have a inf-BFG map to include that's pretty much 100% crowd management :)


also I like the music, from where is it from?

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Woohoo, new Phml stuff!
I actually never liked hordes of AVs crawling from everywhere and always thought it's a cheap and dull trick even with infinite ammo, but all in all - nice little level for brainless shootout. At least it's more aesthetically pleasing and much less punishing than ThreeLines, heh.

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