Slaughterfest 3 [Beta_C released, 05/08/2017]

[ArmouredBlood]

I've finished a new version of Red Recluse, now v5 (still requires cc4-tex, and is in the map21 slot). A lot of balancing changes to the last fight and a couple little fixes here and there. I intend on playing through what we have and getting some feedback out, and am willing to work on some people's maps if they don't have the time or interest to work on them anymore, or if some are abandoned. Let me know if you want to skype while playtesting your map on twitch, so we get some more free-form feedback.

[ArmouredBlood]

I played maps 1-7, here is my feedback.

map1- resurrect dead - Good map.

map2 - firestarter - recommend sticking with beta4 version of map, new version changes a lot for no gain. I'd suggest changing the secrets to be just 1 soulsphere and nothing else, as well as making the linedef lowering the floor in the start within the sector, and having a 16-24 unit lip to prevent the player from backpedaling out.

Map3 - pathogen - the pillar on the overlook meant to provide cover for the yellow key can be a little hard to shoot around, I'd suggest pulling the fencing back around 8-16 units. Also suffers from some stair ice issues, perhaps lower the fence floor to be 4 units higher than the walkway and use a create fake floor/ceiling. Fine otherwise.

Map4 - Desecration - Good map.

Map5 - Evil Battlefield of demons - I felt I didn't have enough ammo for the rev horde before the yellow key and had to dash in to get some rockets. Perhaps the little alcoves with shells behind the player start at the very beginning could open to a deeper alcove for around 10 rockets. Fine otherwise.

map6 - Wavebreaker - Good map.

map7 - payload - I'm not sure why this map got a pass earlier, it has some serious issues. Lines 489 and 586 are not tagged, rendering the plasma secret and the soulspheres stash + rockets for the blue key fight unaccessible. The beginning is fine, though the backpack could be more visible, I missed it my first try that got anywhere. I first went to the red key area, which is really confusing. There is nothing on the pedestal on UV, making it worthless to open first. Then the red key area trap is ridiculously brutal for having no cover and no ssg (yet). Put an SSG on that pedestal or make the plasma gun UV. The cells should not be on UV if the only plasma gun on that difficulty is a secret.

Because of the brutal trap I attempted to take on the rest of the map, opening each direction, yet ended up not having enough ammo for the yellow key fight, which pretty much requires rockets to do. The main chaingunners have complete line of sight on the approach for so long I'd be locked on by the time I got to the entrance, and then it was basically over. Restarting the map and having rocket ammo again, it was merely annoying. Killing the side chaingunners is possible if you get the corpses just far enough from the pocket archies, but I don't see how it's fair if you don't kill them before going for the ssg or the yellow key. The archies should probably be completely cut off until the yellow key is taken. The blue key basically has to be last, but again line 586 is not tagged, so you can't get to ... wherever the hell it's supposed to go so you have enough ammo to kill the archies, revenants, cacodemons, and whatever got rezzed by the archies, and survived not having cover from the archies. I have not and will not play farther into this mess.

One of the biggest things this map needs is strategic cover from the archies, as both the red and blue key hallways are going to be filled and archies have tons of meatshields in the way. Widen the hallways by 128 and add some 64x64 pillars to obstruct sight along the sides and it should be fine. The non-secret cells not being tagged for the correct difficulty is annoying, and feels like a taunt. The red key and blue key areas do not have a weapon, making the yellow key area an almost mandatory first visit; I think each area should have an SSG before unleashing archies on the player.

[Demonologist]

Hope you're picking up separate updates AB, beta is, like, long outdated atm.

[ArmouredBlood]

Demonologist said:

Hope you're picking up separate updates AB, beta is, like, long outdated atm.

I went through and checked which maps had been updated in the thread, it was like 8 and 3 of them (I think) were in the first 7.

[Demonologist]

Sigh, this beta really needs to be recompiled.

[ArmouredBlood]

maps 8-13 here. Breaking for lunch, I'll get back to it I think afterwards.

map8 - with fist in hand, kraflab - the center area being raised by 4-8 units actually threw my ssg autoaims off by enough that every 1 in 4-5 shots would blast 4 or so pellets over the imps' heads, I'd recommend lowering it to even or raising the floor in a cross shape so that the main imps are even. Once I figured that out and how to prioritize my shots it wasn't too bad, though I got out with 8 health heh. I liked the final fight.

map9 - Yonahe, phml - good map

map10 - untitled, phml - good map

map11 - broken mind, archi - good map

map12 - blatant gggmork fanboyism/blagggmf, phml - If all of the fights except the red key fights were about 1/2 the space/double the mobs, it'd be a lot better. The start is incredibly open, and I could run everywhere with no pressure until I got to the yellow key door. Even then, I would've been fine if I had found the ssg which blends in with the completely brown map. The secret rocket launcher is barely a secret, since it's just behind a pillar that would be explored fairly early on. The optional areas like the plasma gun behind the arachnotron lift off the main area and the soulsphere revenant trap could be removed, or used as extra space if the main area of the map is squished. I also think the last fight with the cyb and imps is too easy with the corridor in the back open, it should have a bunch of 64x64 or 32x32 crushers start once the switch is hit. The extra chaingunners at the end are not quite enough I think, maybe 12 or so would be better.

So list of fights that need to be squished/fight beefed up - main area, hallway leading to yellow key door, blue key fights, optional plasma gun.

map13 - daiyu's chamber, daiyu_xiaoxiang - Remove the yellow warning strip texture used on half the map and it'll look better. Besides the idols pictures there are a couple other questionable texturing choices going on in the weapon halls, like a startan edge to a marble wall. Some of the doors are awkward, and the bars closing me in for the yellow key fight can be walked back through, closing me out and having to reload. Those should be turbo, if not a 'ceiling raises to lowest ceiling' boom special with a joined sector bordering on one with a ceiling height equal to the floor. The fights are fine, though I'd prefer a blue armor instead of the green for the yellow key fight.

E: I'm just going to add this to this post;

map14 - shanghai massacre, daiyu xiao_xiang - The winding canyon area can go, it adds nothing. I'm going to note, I missed the ssg and completed the whole map. It's doable, but very annoying. So it needs to be in a brighter location. This map also could use some retexturing, notably the purple vertical lines. And there are more idol pictures. There are a lot of slow lifts in this map, and the red and blue key doors have lifts which just take time. The red key section is especially bad for having 2 lifts to get back up, which makes no sense at all. The fights, with ssg, should all be reasonable after the canyon. Without was ... fun, until I found the rocket launcher and plasma gun.

[ArmouredBlood]

The maps are taking a liiiittle bit longer now. 16-18

map16 - pacman, lagger - Except for being completely lost in the manc tunnels despite having all 6 keys, this map is good. I'll assume it's not an infinite maze. Having a torch or some textured alcove or something to indicate keys/exit teleports in the maze would be nice.

map17 - fierce attack, tatsurd - behind the last keyed door in the main square area is a room with a megasphere, 3 cell packs, and some rockets. This room has an indented marbface that I got caught on a ton, I'd suggest removing it or making it impassable. The supports on the outer area are also kinda grabby, though it only happened a few times. Map is fine otherwise.

map18 - castle of the damned, ToD - I understand what I'm supposed to do to get to the exit, but only after an iddqd run did I actually know where to go, and that kinda kills my interest in trying the map as intended. And there's not actually any slaughter in this map unless you do whatever it is that causes all the mobs to teleport in, and that's so convoluted I gave up after 10 switches and a good 15 dead keens. As much as I'd rather not say cut a map, I don't think this really belongs in a slaughterfest. Maybe include it in the bonus section if you want to keep it in.

[ArmouredBlood]

map19 - metastasizing slaughterfest, Daiyu xiao_xiang - Another daiyu map, this one is the best I think. There are still a lot of the bright yellow warning strip texture (and the idol pictures), but it's less harsh when paired with the yellow textures. Those don't exactly make sense since you have to do the yellow area first. Perhaps throw a yellow skull key in somewhere and make the yellow key door card only. My only problem with gameplay was I ran out of ammo in the final red key series of rooms and had to run past stuff and then dodge the 2 cybers. Not a huge problem, but could use a couple shells here and there.

map20 - The farthest Reach, rayzik - I had 2 problem areas with this map, that I just couldn't beat without some less fun tactics. The first, was the yellow key fight. I died every time I tried to jump down, then decided I'd abuse infinite height and just rocket splash everything in the courtyard to death, since there's around 60 rockets up on the ledge. Might just be I suck at dealing with revenants hordes with little to no cover, but the strat I used is questionable to keep in.

The second is the blue key fight. I could not beat this at all until I specifically left the megasphere and invuln from the yellow key fight until I killed everything else before this fight. Then I used the about 5 seconds of invuln left after the bars raised and the blue key lowered to help me clear the top of archies and revenants, which still required me to go down for the plasma along the walls. That took a couple attempts to get down.

I liked neither of those fights, but I respect Rayzik's choice of making them. Something about mass revenants just rubs me wrong. Anyway, I had some small ammo issues going from fight to fight, although 'having to use bfg occasionally on small to medium groups' is not exactly an issue; the ammo conservationist in me was yelling 'don't fire!' a lot. Map is fine besides those issues.

map21 - meet a bear, Dannebuninga - it hints at being nonlinear, but if you don't go for the bfg first the blue key door fight is just impossible. Otherwise fine.\

map22 - mult, gggmork - map is fine. Besides the weird sky.

map23 - poop, gggmork - besides the insane crackle usage and lack of midi, it's fine.

[j4rio]

ArmouredBlood said:

I intend on playing through what we have and getting some feedback out, and am willing to work on some people's maps if they don't have the time or interest to work on them anymore, or if some are abandoned.

I'd say feel free to do whatever fixes you consider necessary and whoever has issues with those changes is free to speak up. That's rather unlikely to happen anyway considering the minimal interest in wrapping this up. Dayiu plans on releasing his maps in his personal megawad in their current form so I'd advise focusing on those, so identical maps don't get released in separate wads. I also agree about that ToD's map being an ultra secret map contender.

[ArmouredBlood]

j4rio said:

I'd say feel free to do whatever fixes you consider necessary and whoever has issues with those changes is free to speak up. That's rather unlikely to happen anyway considering the minimal interest in wrapping this up. Dayiu plans on releasing his maps in his personal megawad in their current form so I'd advise focusing on those, so identical maps don't get released in separate wads. I also agree about that ToD's map being an ultra secret map contender.

Yeah I'll try and implement my changes, I think they wouldn't be too big, though the texturing changes will be a pain in the ass. I'll probably do something fun with daiyu's idol pictures, making them into a little secret switch that changes the map.

Also Demonologist, your Via Tortuosa Final link is dead.

[Demonologist]

This link should be alive for long enough.
The version I have isn't 100% final actually, as I asked Ribbiks to do some zdaemon-related changes afterwards... They're technical and don't affect SP experience though, just mentioning for clarification purposes.

[ArmouredBlood]

Heh, not one of my mediafire links has gone down afaik. I don't test multiplayer so yeah not going to affect me. I think I'll wait until I have feedback posted on all the maps to do any work.

map24 - joyless, dannebuninga - I think it needs a midi? Otherwise fine.

map25 - chaos slaughter, solarn - Besides needing 4 different texture packs to get all the textures to load in db2, I think the 2 stairs fight is really tight on ammo if you want to kill all the cacos. The 'sewers' fight is also a little low on health, and without the secret, low on ammo too. I think these might be intended to be run through and then come back with the bfg later, if at all. I can't really test the last few fights because of the texture issue, it's just too distracting.

map26 - Via Tortuosa, demonologist - I'm not sure if this belongs in E3. I completed it without the invuln (I'm stubborn regarding invuln usage) and besides the second yellow key part (plasmaing demons is surprisingly annoying), it wasn't too hard. Maybe move it up to 21 or 22. Map seems fine otherwise.

map27 - Red Recluse, Armouredblood - Skipped, own map. I'm still not satisfied with the last fight. I may just make everything that teleports in cyberdemons/spidermasterminds.

[ArmouredBlood]

map28 - dHoles, ToD - Going through the void and the path from the computer map to the end are not really intuitive, but it works ok I guess. There are inescapable lava pits that need to be fixed. Otherwise good (long) map.

map29 - escaping the spiral labyrinth, ToD - I'm not touching this one except for making sure all the inescapable pits are escapable.

map30 - chronoblast, archi - It's good, but after playing it I agree with other people it's not quite map30 material. The problem is it starts with an impactful fight against the 2 archis and demons ... but then regresses to the revs, then chaingunners, then hks and revs again, then goes somewhat in the right direction for the blue key card fight. Then the portal fight is just ok, not really getting anywhere. The real meat of the map is after the portal, and that just takes too long to get to. It'd be better to start with the archi fight (box in with revs like it is, have them wake up and open the doors once the player shoots), then have nothing until the blue key fight or redo the red key fight to be more punchy. The blue key side pillars can all raise at once instead of having mobs. The portal fight can just be stuff porting in instead of having mobs wait at the door.

From the portal on, there's just one fight I'm concerned with, the one in the cistern with the red and yellow skull key doors, I think there's one too many cybers as they easily kill everything in there from infighting. More revs to replace it would be good.

map31 - butt, gggmork - what. No I'm not looking at your butt. Wait, the map. It's gggmork, I couldn't improve this map ever. I don't even know steps 2-(z-1) to beating this. I think there might not be enough archies to survive blasting you into all 4 corners though. I don't even make it past the first wave to actually tell if it is or isn't ...

map32 - trick or cheat, lagger - The time constraint on this map isn't noticeable until you get gibbed out of nowhere. I moved on after getting to the yellow key and then the few times I survived the big archi ambush to get into an alcove, I got gibbed a few moments later. I'll take another look at it when I go over the bonus maps.

map33 - three lines, phml - While an interesting concept, this is definitely a bonus map. Well I guess map33, since the bonuses aren't included.

[TimeOfDeath]

I like inescapable death pits because they force you not to fall into them. Beware rebuilding nodes on dholes, the void hallway can easily become broken. Also, you guys should really play Quake some time, it's an awesome game!

[ArmouredBlood]

TimeOfDeath said:

I like inescapable death pits because they force you not to fall into them. Beware rebuilding nodes on dholes, the void hallway can easily become broken. Also, you guys should really play Quake some time, it's an awesome game!

I guess I'll leave them in, there's enough megaspheres in dholes I could just idclip out, and escape is so convoluted I don't want to mess with it. Quake is cool, I just like doom more.

[TimeOfDeath]

Feel free to change stuff, I don't mind, "my" versions have already been released. For dholes you can replace the whole void part with a teleporter if you want. For escaping, what about making the rad suit teleporter at the end take you to the sector 575 platform? I also like doom more, just wasn't sure if your castle of the damned comment meant you didn't know about the Quake secrets or not (I remember j4rio hasn't played quake before).

[ArmouredBlood]

Oh my god it's a miracle, sf3 beta 5! (yeah I'm calling it beta 5). Unfortunately chaosslaughter uses a couple textures not included in b4, so you'll need gothictx, and maybe cc4-tex. And probably q1tex to be safe. Also Temple of Judgement has been added to slot 26, and requires q1tex. If someone could sort out the textures, that would be awesome. We still need a 15 which could be temple arena, or we could move trick or cheat to 27, castle of the damned to 31/32, and move some maps down to fill the hole.

Changelog here:
firestarter - removed plasma portion of secret, keeping sf3b4 version in.
pathogen - flattened the overlook with a create fake ceiling/floor.
payload - lots of stuff, now map12. I still need to do some playtesting on the end.
with fist in hand - changed the center area to be offset by 4 instead of 8, should help the shotgun firing over imps heads issue.
blagggmf - swapped with payload, so map7 now. It's actually fine, but should be a fairly early slot, and payload was in too early of a slot.
daiyu's chamber - a ton of retexturing. I left the idols in this and the other daiyu maps though. It wouldn't be a daiyu map without them.
shanghai massacre - removed first canyon part that's not exactly slaughter, retextured a lot.
fierce attack - just made that one indent impassable, feels ok now.
castle of the damned - moved to 34
metastasizing slaughterfest - yellow skull key placed in obvious spot to get the player on the right track. A lot of retexturing.
chaos slaughter - added a couple medkits to the sewers fight.
chronoblast - beefed up some of the base fights. Needs playtesting

Castle of the damned to 34, via tortuosa to 18, payload to 12, blagggmf to 7, add Temple of judgement into 26


@ToD; Eh, my only problem was the lava pits, if others think they should be escapable we'll make that possible. I'd rather not see if the void tunnel gets broken. Not sure where the rad suit teleporter is in escape, but if it makes more sense that way, sure. I couldn't actually get the door activated by the 666 tag to open, but I think I missed some cybers. I only watched your demo to get an idea of what was supposed to happen once I couldn't tell from looking at the map in DB2 anymore. I'm not sure what you mean by quake secrets, it's been a while since I've played quake.

E: I forgot to add my own map. It's in now. I may have snuck an extra texture or too in by accident ...

[Demonologist]

ArmouredBlood said:

I completed it without the invuln

Yeah everything's beatable as is, invul is pretty much a means to an end for ultimate confidence... somewhere. An act of kindness, hehe.

TimeOfDeath said:

For dholes you can replace the whole void part with a teleporter if you want. For escaping, what about making the rad suit teleporter at the end take you to the sector 575 platform?

Just wanted to say that it sounds good to me personally, the void in dholes was confusing, and radsuit rush to the exit in escape was beyond unfair, hesitate a bit somewhere along the way and you're fucked. And obscure progression of ToD maps... well, it's a long-running trend of ToD maps to be a complete mindfuck unless you watch an author's demo beforehand, heh.

@ AB: At last, thanks a ton! Some misc thoughts:

ArmouredBlood said:

with fist in hand

What about also pimping it up a bit? I'd say it needs some light variation and a bit more interesting texture scheme. I might give it a try if no one minds, I guess it's safe to tell now that I know q1tex inside out haha.

ArmouredBlood said:

shanghai massacre - removed first canyon part that's not exactly slaughter, retextured a lot.

It was a red (?) key segment that also bugged me a lot, you can just fall down in there and become stuck. Maybe at least changing the floor to damaging lava that changes flat and effect after it's raised would make it acceptable.

ArmouredBlood said:

If someone could sort out the textures, that would be awesome. We still need a 15 which could be temple arena, or we could move trick or cheat to 27, castle of the damned to 31/32, and move some maps down to fill the hole.

I think I'll have something sorted out regarding textures, the whole combined texture pack needs to be recompiled. Also please, don't move Trick or Cheat to non-secret slot, it's purely a secret map-worthy gimmick. I'd say Butt can be pushed into 33+ slot and Castle of the Damned in its place (or vice versa, who cares), as CotD is much like Brookhaven Hospital from sf12 in terms of gameplay approach, something that's both hardly slaughter and hardly conventional.

[j4rio]

Cool to see this heading somewhere after a hiatus. Thanks AB!

I haven't checked the wad in quite a while, but I think there is one archi's map lying around he posted to replace map 11 that I'm not sure you added to the latest beta.

[Archi]

Texture errors on maps: 06, 18, 25, 26, 27, 30.

Feel free to do whatever you think may help to my maps, even removing some parts or the whole maps.

Try this to compile the maps: https://github.com/jewalky/wadstomp

[Demonologist]

Checked some stuff.

- Payload: I still think it's a below average map, there was more than enough of those in sf11. Despite all the visual touchups from you AB - it's still essentially an unimaginative flat field that's highly unpleasant to play in addition. I'd reject it tbh.
- Daiyu's Maps: can't say if retexturing really helped alleviate the crazy visuals issue...
- Chronoblast: I'm not sure if any changes to the first series of fights did them any good. While taking care of imps stuck in each other in BK area was nice - I'd revert the rest of the changes, they simply add unnecessary grind to what's already there.

Didn't check Red recluse, but I'll take whatever it has to offer now, hehe.
Regarding missing maps - well, if you could persuade Ribbiks or danne to submit Temple arena or Dannefest, respectively...

Also yeah, Archi already posted stuff re: texture pack re-compiling.

[Ribbiks]

Here's a compiled b5 with no texture errors: sf3_b5b.wad

Thanks AB for kickstarting this back up.

the maplist currently looks like this:

01: Resurrect Dead
02: Firestarter
03: Pathogen
04: Desecration
05: Evil Battlefield of Demons
06: Wavebreaker
07: Blagggf
08: With Fist In Hand
09: Yonahe
10: Untitled
11: Broken Mind
12: Payload
13: Daiyu's Chamber
14: Shanghai Massacre
15: -
16: Pacman
17: Fierce Attack
18: Via Tortuosa
19: Metastasizing Slaughterfest
20: The Farthest Reach
21: Meet a Bear
22: Mult
23: Poop
24: Joyless
25: Chaos Slaughter
26: Temple of Judgement
27: Red Recluse
28: dHoles
29: Escaping the Spiral Labyrinth
30: Chronoblast
31: Butt
32: Trick or Cheat
33: Three Lines
34: Castle of the Damned

some misc thoughts of my own:
- temple arena sucked, it's not coming back
- of the daiyu maps, I like 13, 14 is passable. I'm really not a fan of 19, but AB seemed to like it so ohwell. Guess we'll keep em all then?
- I'll echo chronoblast doesn't particularly feel like a m30. maybe if parts of it were stripped down it could take the empty m15 slot?

I could try my hand at a m15 or m30 in the meantime. Feels kinda silly to be (lazily) managing this for so long without mapping anything.

[Demonologist]

Unfortunately there are still some texture glitches. Seems like your fancy scripts have a bad habit of messing up q1tex wooden flats mate, as m18 has standard iwad wooden flats again. The last time I encountered this I was able to fix it by simply adding the flats needed by hand. Also spotted a big HOM in the RK area of m30, look at the ceiling.

I had an idea regarding m30, and it's probably even viable, yet it'd take aeons for me to make even if I'll be able to get to it, just as always. So yeah, let Ribbiks do the business!

[Ribbiks]

ya ya, both now fixed ^^. prog often gets confused with flats/tex that have conflicting names, I'll debug that eventually..

[ArmouredBlood]

@demonologist:
(With fist in hand)
Yeah do that demonologist, it is a bit bare.
(shanghai massacre)
I'm not sure where you're talking about, the daiyu maps sort of bleed together after a while. That warning texture was everywhere! (and I still left some in) As for the textures still being weird, I left them because changing textures entirely kinda wipes the thematic choice of the mapper out, and while we have 3 maps from daiyu, they're all kinda different. Also if we cut one we have 2 (+ payload) maps to fill ...
(trick or cheat)
I guess it's staying a secret. I feel it's more slaughter than castle of the damned, despite having a pretty big gimmick.
(payload)
I tried a little bit with payload, but at this point I'd agree with demonologist to just remove it. It would take a looooot of redoing to salvage a map that has a few interesting encounters but nothing special.
I'll search around for more archi maps heheh.
(dholes)
I guess we'll switch in the teleporter for the void. I actually kinda liked the idea, but it is highly unintuitive. The exit in escape doesn't need every secret sector to be hit right? If so, you can just ignore the secrets and wait for the thing to lower, then drop down.

I made some more drastic edits to chronoblast (sorry forgot to zip it). Removed red key fight, added a fight before the blue key instead. It may be a little low on ammo.

@ribbiks:
I agree temple arena isn't quite up to standard, but we do need a map 15 still, soooo get to mapping! I like 19 but about the same as the other 2, so if you have something else you want to put in there I'm cool with it. I guess castle of the damned can fit in there, but I still don't feel it fits in slaughterfest.

[Demonologist]

ArmouredBlood said:

I'm not sure where you're talking about

I fall down here and woohoo, I'm fucked!

ArmouredBlood said:

I'll search around for more archi maps heheh.

It was about Temple of Judgement I believe. Nothing else to search for sadly.

ArmouredBlood said:

The exit in escape doesn't need every secret sector to be hit right? If so, you can just ignore the secrets and wait for the thing to lower, then drop down.

In order to activate the lowering mechanism you have to drop down and stand in the damaging lava during the whole process, and you're guaranteed not to survive. So, all the struggle in this map is to get to the radsuit and then travel a long way to the exit so that you can wait for some time undamaged. Waste the suit too early and you're fucked. Secrets are completely optional, I believe they're there to troll maxers (and considering ToD's habit of maxing his own maps - he likes trolling himself first and foremost it seems). Trollish secrets in a trollish map, what else to say...

[dannebubinga]

Map 24 doesn´t need a midi. it´s finished :)

[Omnistar]

Good to see this thread is back up again.

If the rest of you guys are cool with it (assuming there will be another beta), you can replace Payload with Iron Fortress instead. It's a larger but somewhat linear map but definitely nowhere near as bland as Payload was. Let me know what you think.

[cannonball]

At some point I should probably make a better effort for this wad. Firestarter I don't think is going to be good enough in any form it has been presented in over the past year or so. Wavebreaker is okay but I might release it in a series of scrap maps bundled together and start a fresh on this project.

[ArmouredBlood]

cannonball said:

At some point I should probably make a better effort for this wad. Firestarter I don't think is going to be good enough in any form it has been presented in over the past year or so. Wavebreaker is okay but I might release it in a series of scrap maps bundled together and start a fresh on this project.

Firestarter is fine as a map2. Yeah it's a little boxy, but sf3 is old now so I wouldn't expect it to be an example of your current work. Do something new if you're still torn on it.

Still need to play iron fortress, been doing other stuff.