Slaughterfest 3 [Beta_C released, 05/08/2017]

Ribbiks, thank you for a feedback again!

Ribbiks said:

- I think these lines should be block monster, because it's easy for the cybs to get stuck on them and then get helplessly raped to death by HKs/etc.

Did you check these lines well? The lines have already had block monster.

Ribbiks said:

- I think this liquid should be damaging because it's way to easy to camp the encounter from down here and cheese it (unless that's the intended strategy??)

Your opinion looks reasonable. However, I think blue water is very fit for this area's atmosphere and I just don't want to make blue water damaging.

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excellent, same thing with Three Lines then? (I'd just plan on adding difficulty settings to that one, won't change anything on UV)

also do ya desire any fenagling with the map authorship if I make edits? I really don't care either way but I recall you get antsy if your name's on something and it's not exactly as you intended :p


Sure.

I think it makes sense to add your name if you do some edits, but I won't throw a tantrum (... this time) if you don't. ;)

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I'll fix the issues on my maps once i get home. I secretly installed doom on my dad's pc and played the compiled wad some.

Map 1 and 3 were amazingly fun. Especially map 3. Sexy looking aswell.

I noticed some horrible maps aswell. I'll comment more on that later.

J4rio: I spoke with santa yesterday and he said you have to play my latest map. Otherwise he'll take your x-mas gifts away from you.

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Rayzik said:


thanks!

Phendrena said:

Assuming you've not issued the megawad then I'll take another look at the monster distribution and pick a midi :)


excellent. My only real concern while playing was likely my own fault. I couldn't find where the exit supposedly was -.-

Hurricyclone said:

So what's the main concern with it now? I'm hoping that all the HOMs were gone, as aquacrescents doesn't need plutonia textures now.


I think on my re-playthrough I had found some of the '94-isms slightly unpalatable, mainly the distressingly huge giant open flatness of the main octagonal rooms. It's redeemed at least partially by some of its charming attributes: entertainingly garish hallways, and the sector-crafted crab/turtle. Anyways, The only things that severely bothered me were:

- the narrow BFG walkway, just feels tedious, especially having to carefully maneuver around the pillars, why not scrap that and just put the bfg here for example.
- hrnnnnnnnnng ledges of barons, tedious tedious tedious. especially when they revive on round 2. I'd request they be replaced with something less annoying, like manc,hk,rev, or something.

tatsurd-cacocaco said:

Did you check these lines well? The lines have already had block monster.
Your opinion looks reasonable. However, I think blue water is very fit for this area's atmosphere and I just don't want to make blue water damaging.


Oh, I guess you're right -.-, I just saw a cyb get mercilessly raped there on my last playthrough so I assumed it got pushed over the edge and stuck, but I guess it just got overpowered the old fashioned way. And allrighty, if you insist on non-damaging water that's fine.

dannebubinga said:

I'll fix the issues on my maps once i get home. I secretly installed doom on my dad's pc and played the compiled wad some.


righto, any and all commentary welcome. And no huge rush on the fixes, given it's the holidays and all. god jul :)

Phml said:


woo new phml map! fun stuff, the famous gothic symmetry strikes again :p

here's a demo: https://www.mediafire.com/?5mbr40bgp4i954r I get to the last fight and die because I suck. I do enjoy how the map feels very slaughtery but isn't particularly hard. It gives you such abundant resources that you can handle each fight nearly any way you see fit, and odds are good you can rush through and combine many encounters without things getting overly hairy.

My only complaint (and you're probably expecting this): why on earth is that cage of archviles there in the beginning? All it seemingly does is add 2 minutes of peekaboo ssg action and a 1% chance you get unlucky and blasted while circlestrafing the imps/manc. Would it make more sense to have maybe 4 of them on raised pillars in the center in clear view of the player, effectively forcing the player to camp one side or the other? Or maybe have a single cyb in there, so the industrious player mgiht be encouraged to open it up early and let infighting commence?

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Ribbiks said:

- the narrow BFG walkway, just feels tedious, especially having to carefully maneuver around the pillars, why not scrap that and just put the bfg here for example.


I'll probably just get rid of those pillars on the whole. Dunno why I put them there, guess I wanted to challenge myself :p. But since the BFG is mandatory I guess it wasn't a good idea after all.

- hrnnnnnnnnng ledges of barons, tedious tedious tedious. especially when they revive on round 2. I'd request they be replaced with something less annoying, like manc,hk,rev, or something.


Okay, maybe they are tedious. I know they are the strongest monster class archie can resurrect.

The good news for me is that now I have a free hand to do some work on this map, especially since I found the damn thing on my computer now :p. But as far as the ugly '94-isms' you're talking about, I'm keeping them, serving as a reminder of how much I sucked.

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Thanks for the FDAs, will watch these ASAP.

I'm not happy with the final fight and slept on that thought. Got a new layout in mind I think will turn out to be more interesting, so v2 should be coming by this evening.

My only complaint (and you're probably expecting this): why on earth is that cage of archviles there in the beginning? All it seemingly does is add 2 minutes of peekaboo ssg action and a 1% chance you get unlucky and blasted while circlestrafing the imps/manc. Would it make more sense to have maybe 4 of them on raised pillars in the center in clear view of the player, effectively forcing the player to camp one side or the other? Or maybe have a single cyb in there, so the industrious player mgiht be encouraged to open it up early and let infighting commence?


Aw, that's actually my favorite part, the one room left intact from an earlier humongous map attempt because it felt perfect. Heh.

For me it makes the center area dangerous to hang around but still possible with some care, and pushes me to fight around the pillars on the sides, and I get overwhelmed on either side so I have to dash through the room eventually to switch sides.

Coupled with the shell/rocket balance and manc/imp there's several strategies the way I play it:

- take out mancs on one side with rockets, run to other side, take out mancs on other side with rockets, kill imps with SSG, flip switch, run to one side, kill AVs with rockets

- take out mancs on one side with rockets, let mancs from the other side infight imps, finish everything off with SSG, flip switch, run to one side, kill AVs with rockets

- kill mancs/imps with infighting and SSG, flip switch, spam rockets on AVs

- run around collecting all rockets while killing stuff with SSG, do the above movement in a pattern that ensures there's a free path to the switch, flip switch, kill everything with rockets in a large imp/manc/AV infight brawl

- or do the above after killing imps only

Then I find more suboptions within that, i.e. managing imp/manc movement so they die close or far from the AVs and picking my position against the AVs so they either run into or avoid specific corpses. Pros and cons for either choice, letting the AVs come in a straight line can make them faster to kill with rockets but there's more potential for things to go south, on the other end letting them rez mancs is safer but the cleanup takes longer and might be more ammo consuming.

If all else fails there's even the option of weaking AVs by shooting down a few of them through the bars before flipping the switch; or (admittedly more obscure) waking up just the first three to get an AV jump to the plasma gun.

...So, yeah. I really like this room. I must have played it 40-50 times by now and I still enjoy going through it. :) Not too inclined to change things there, unless it turns out others share your experience.

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Woo new phml map!
FDA.
Gothic symmetry rules.

Ribbiks said:

I do enjoy how the map feels very slaughtery but isn't particularly hard

That's why we like them. Phml is one of my fav mappers actually.

Surprisingly easy map. Plethora of everything and plenty of camping spots to make things even easier, it's really hard to get cornered here. I must say that the last fight drags too much, so in the end I had little incentive to kill everyone and simply exited. For an area of such scale you could easily turn everything into complete mess and make all teleporters across the map vomit forth legions, so that player won't have option of camping and sitting in safe spots anymore. Adundance of health and ammo makes it an option for sure. Maybe adding some bosses in various spots as well, e.g. more openings from the rear sides (the ones with chaingunners and barons) with SMs (and/or arachs) so that player standing there carelessly would be sprayed with lead/plasma.

I also have to agree with Ribbiks on AV cage, they pose little threat used that way. At least their attack angle should be expanded significantly so that they can actually attack when you come across. Or Ribbiks' offer, fair enough. Right now they're just ammo sinks and nothing else.

But hey - it's always cool to see more stuff from you.

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Yonahe v2

New final fight, for the most part everything else stays the same; with some adjustements here and there based on FDAs.

(Haven't watched yours yet Demo, will get to it after this post; but the camping issues should be alleviated, j4rio pointed out several flaws in his demo)

I also have to agree with Ribbiks on AV cage, they pose little threat used that way. At least their attack angle should be expanded significantly so that they can actually attack when you come across. Or Ribbiks' offer, fair enough. Right now they're just ammo sinks and nothing else.


Oh well. Perhaps I'm just bad at keeping track of line of sight, but for me, it takes effort to not get blasted if I want to hang out in the center area. Which is what I like for this fight, slight area of denial, not total shutdown.

Still going to drag my feet on any potential change. :p From my perspective, problem is, if I put 4 AVs on pillars, you could kill them right away easily and even if you don't they wouldn't be much of a threat once the mancs and imps are done for; and if I put 4 AVs on pillars + more on ground level, then they become *too* efficient and the center part is closed off. One cybie? Again, this essentially removes the second part of the fight (as well as cut off the AV jump -> fast BFG route).

I must say that the last fight drags too much, so in the end I had little incentive to kill everyone and simply exited. For an area of such scale you could easily turn everything into complete mess and make all teleporters across the map vomit forth legions, so that player won't have option of camping and sitting in safe spots anymore. Adundance of health and ammo makes it an option for sure. Maybe adding some bosses in various spots as well, e.g. more openings from the rear sides (the ones with chaingunners and barons) with SMs (and/or arachs) so that player standing there carelessly would be sprayed with lead/plasma.


Indeed, the layout is the main issue; too much camping options. I tweaked monster composition a bunch yesterday and eventually ended up with what you saw - but it's kind of a shit show, either the AVs overwhelm you right away, or you've basically won and waste minutes on mindless clean-up. Got to move those vertices.

Your idea is pretty cool... I like the thought of SMs in baron closets especially. Anyway, I went the lazy route in v2 and blocked the player inside the final room.

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hello,

my map is finished now. there are no bugs and i hope that i forgot nothing to control but i think not. when you want to record a demo, play it on pr-boom plus, otherwise i recommend to play it on zdoom. best at version 2.4.0.2065. i know this version is old but the map is very old too, so i tried it always with that version from the beginning of creating this map and everything works and looks perfect with that old one. and of course it works also with the new version of zdoom but in the older ones, it looks a little bit better. i don't know if the map will be taken for the megawad or not but when yes, then anyone should make sure that the whole map stays excactly so, how i made it. because in an older unofficial version of sf2013, some texture offsets were changed and also original textures from doom 2 were replaced with other ones, as if by an invisible hand and nobody knewed why. that would be very important to me, thanks.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/98rvh3

djd

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I'm so jealous of Ribbiks' compiling skills. Nice job!

Also danne, you weren't supposed to see me when you were sleeping, I was trying to be really quiet...

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hey to everyone,

i'm really sorry, but accidentally i still found some things to change in my map again. i thought i forgot nothing last time, but by so many lines and other things it's easy to overlook something. so, also this is now the really last and final version of my map for sf2013. so, please everyone who downloaded the old one from yesterday should delete it and take this new one. some small but important changes were made and i tagged the new file name of the wad with "(FINAL VERSION)" at the end. also just delete the old one from yesterday and take this one here. thanks!

http://www.sendspace.com/file/xt6u4v

djd

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Yonahe v2 fda. I didn't play v1. I like everything but the first room and the barons/archies before the red key, they're very 'mop it up' instead of 'kill it now!'. I think the bars in the former could be made a little thinner, like 4-8px, and have a shoot-activated switch between them that will allow a few extra archies to teleport in, perhaps up with the red key or by the soul spheres. Spice it up a little.

I like changing the barons in the closet to something else, perhaps mancs or imps. Something to get you dancing there instead of hiding behind the corner and sniping archies.

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Thanks for the FDA!

Really don't want to make bars thinner. I'm fine with the amount of pressure the AVs put on the main room right now, wouldn't want that to change.

I guess I could split the AVs in half and teleport the rest of them after you flip the switch lowering bars. Having less AVs at first probably wouldn't change much with thinner bars. Even though I don't like teleporting AVs much, given there's ample amount of time while the bars lower it could be OK. And I could put a teleporting zombieman or something for the very first switch as a warning.

But then... Would that really accomplish anything? People will kill 5 AVs with SSG through bars instead of 11. I know this is something most people don't see eye-to-eye with me, but as a player I really like having options to tackle things in a much easier, but much slower and potentially tedious way, and being trusted to make the right decision for myself, how much risk am I willing to take vs how much repetiveness am I OK with. In contrast, just doing the above change would feel like pointless railroading. i.e. "NO, I don't want you to kill all 11 AVs like that because it'd be slow and lame, play the fight MY way instead".

Ditto with the 4 AVs and 2 barons, to be honest I didn't anticipate people would hang back and shoot rockets from maximum range before setting them loose, and considered moving them one step up or raising the bars, but in the end I like that there's the option to do that (the 2 barons aren't meant as a real threat either, just distraction while the HK horde pours out of teleporters).

That is, just explaining my perspective here. It's obvious there's a consensus against the AV cage as is, so while I'm not inclined to make changes I feel would turn the map less interesting, if anyone else wants to tweak things a little, feel free to do so!

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I'd never do an av swarm without the bfg (except with gimmicks/tricks), but that's why this is a community effort. I think the rules are flexible enough you can leave it as is.

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I'm lagging my way through dholes on my dad's pc and I just can't find a way to get to the south area. I've found the cheesy RL jump exit, but normallly, I just can't find my way through.

Same goes for map 30, though I haven't studied that one in DB. After the symmetrical area with 2 red skull key doors and an insane amount of cells and megaspheres. I know how to get up on the gstone pillars with the teleports made out of exit signs, but after I picked up the RK and went back to activate the fight, I'm at a loss.

Sometimes I feel that you make your maps way to confusing.

Edit: NVM. I figured it out. When I walked out into the void I didn't realize I had to walk an absolute straight line. I guess I got stuck in some "wall". Sadistic

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I agree about being confusing, but that's my eternall influence at work. :)

If "escaping the spiral labyrinth" is map30, I think it should be changed because it has teleporting monsters. For that map you have to find a way to lower the metal support bars (tag 44).

EDIT: btw, I didn't even think of an rjump shortcut. Also, is that map lagging for you? On my 12 year old comp it does lag a bit at the start but it's still playable in prplus 800x600.

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TimeOfDeath said:

EDIT: btw, I didn't even think of an rjump shortcut. Also, is that map lagging for you? On my 12 year old comp it does lag a bit at the start but it's still playable in prplus 800x600.


I managed to beat the map really fast by just rushing for the BFG and clearing all monsters in the starting area. Then I faced the former human pyramid and blasted my way to the exit lift. You could keep it like this, it's hard to do and the uv-speed demos could get interesting. And since I somehow "know" you, I know you won't change it since you're a vulnerable artist. ;)

The lag is because of my dad's pc being weird.

It's an amazing map. I'd really like to max it, but some encounters are so hard that I would probably get a nervous breakdown around the 5000th kill mark :P

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I agree that some latest ToD maps tend to break my tolerance threshold for awkward map progression. Some of those ideas would make eternall authors cringe.

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I haven't really kept up with what you guys are planning to do when the year ends in a few hours (ie "freeze the project as it is" vs "extend it into a new year for some reason") but assuming sf2013 is still just 2013 I thought I'd better clarify that the only map I'm submitting is still the Exodus remix, which I'm planning to tidy up a little at some point today (removing archviles for one thing).

I did do a bit of work on gggmork's crackle texture map a while back, but I could never think of anything to do with the outer areas and I kinda just ran out of motivation to work on it. I just turned it into a kind of gothicy garden thing, so you're not missing anything. Sorry, gggmork :/

I also made a surprisingly cool christmas map a few days ago, but it's not going to be finished in time for anything so I'll pretty much have to release it next christmas.

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exodus remix, tentative final version. 6 MB, contains resources.

- Some things that annoyed people were changed or toned down, but i also tried not to trivialize anything or move too far away from the style of gameplay i was aiming for, so this may or may not have worked.
- Difficulty levels added
- The sky was chosen to fit the map visually, so if there aren't any other conflicting new skies I think we should use this sky for one episode.
- If cannonball doesn't mind, I'd like to rename the map "Resurrect Dead" rather than it just being exodus remix.
- I wanted to expand the map a lot more really, but I never got round to it. I was tempted to roll the map over into sf2014 and work on it some more but instead I'm going to let go and leave it mostly as it is.

What even is happening with sf2013 right now?

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Thanks for the demo j4rio. well played :)

I'll post a final version of my map tonight if you think it's good enough.

Edit: Could someone please upload the compiled wad on another page than mediafire? Ribbik's download link seems jammed.

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I have to add difficulty settings to two of my maps and coop stuff to one. Plus I'll update dholes by making some impassible lines by the exit area so you can't do danne's rocket jump and then fall down into the western area for a faster max for some reason (but the rocket jump will stay for speed route).

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Grain of Salt said:

I did do a bit of work on gggmork's crackle texture map a while back, but I could never think of anything to do with the outer areas and I kinda just ran out of motivation to work on it.


That's fine, if anyone was intending to retexture my map(s) and now wants to cancel, let me know. I'll assume nobody is texturing anything else and touch up my own versions (to add difficulty settings maybe or fix one small floor bug I saw) unless someone says otherwise.

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Grain of Salt said:

exodus remix, tentative final version. 6 MB, contains resources.


I would :
- change sg at start to cg, it's just luckbased with that chaingunner shit as it is
- change ssg near the exit guarded by av to BFG, it would speed up the spider removal process if daring enough, besides there's no way to obtain it early anyway so why not

Grain of Salt said:
- The sky was chosen to fit the map visually, so if there aren't any other conflicting new skies I think we should use this sky for one episode. [/B]


There's some trickery possible to do that would make certain sky appear only on one desired map.

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yah sky transfers are awesome (action 271). I think ToD is the only one (not sure) who used that thus far, so my apologies in advance if the final arrangement of maps results in sub-optimal sky/texture combinations. I'll try and choose RSKY textures that don't look horrible.

Also I'm currently collecting various fixes and will eventually post a beta once I get a compiled version with a map-order I don't hate. My main ordering hangups at the moment:

- I'm not sure at the moment which entries would be the most suited for map01, map30, or how much that even matters.
- plenty of maps (Butt, Castle of the Damned, Trick or Treat, Three Lines, Pacman) have unusual or gimmick-based gameplay that usually makes for apt 31+ maps, but seeing as there are quite a few of them I'm not quite sure how to distribute them throughout the set.

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Exodus thingie could go for map 1. I'd say somebody would have to make a map with map 30 gimmickery in mind otherwise there's no real solution other than bastardizing some already submitted map. Some haunted dreams styled thingie which would just shamelessly copypaste old sf material for greater good shouldn't be particularly time consuming to make.

Some more quick FDAs for Pathogen and Desecration.

Pathogen is fine, desecration as well, although it's a little too filled up with ammo and that red keyed room with mastermind is escapable (locking the other side by yellow key rather than red key to prevent easy escape).

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Speaking of Pathogen. I have zero spare time for quite a while ahead, so is anybody willing to add MP starts and skill levels? I know its little work but Im suuuuper busy and away from home quite alot.

Maybe remove a buch of rockets on UV and leave it as it is on HMP, I guess that should be OK. Feel free to do whatever though.

I've been wanting to use this midi for a few years now, so it can be added too: http://music.themaxproject.com/midis/games/poc2/poc2_boss2.mid

That is, if anybody is willing to do it of course. If not I'll be able to make changes in a couple of weeks

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