Switcheroom! Or, what if E1M1 was E3M1? (Release Candidate 3, aiming for whenever)

[Death Egg]

Download the first Alpha

Some things:

* The maps E2M6, E2M9, E3M3, E3M8, E4M4 are not included.
* Not all of the maps currently have names.
* I didn't modify any of the maps other than E4M5, which was otherwise impossible to complete.
* I also didn't include the custom music for E4M8 quite yet.

[Fernito]

GREAT! I'll give this a shot and will post my comments later.

EDIT: comments so far (NOTE: I'm playing with ZDoom, so I'm not looking for tutti-fruttis and stuff like that):

E1M1:

- I think the trees in the first area still look a little bit out of place.
- I think the chainsaw should be at least in a secret place in E1M1 (it'd be even better if it didn't appear at all in the level). It can't be that easy to get it IMO.
- There's a lost soul in UV!
- The exit should be a switch instead of a teleporter pad IMO.

E1M2:

- The chaingun secret after getting the yellow key is kind of out of place I think.
- The backpack should be in a secret IMO; the same thing for the rocket launcher.
- I think there's some over-complex architecture here and there that doesn't make the map look very Vanilla Doom style.
- Overall, looks and feels a lot better than the first version, but I think it still need some polishing.

OK, that's all for now. I'll keep testing later.

[Magnusblitz]

Gave a quick whirl through some of the ones I haven't played yet.

Couple bugs:

E2M7: Sector 189 is tagged as damaging even though it's an island in the slime

E3M4: The yellow door (sector 147) doesn't have DOORTRAK or lower unpegged sides.

[Babel]

i hope not to be late here.
Here is the map E4M5/E3M5 complete.
http://www.speedyshare.com/jGgXE/e4m5.wad

[Gothic]

testing the E3M1 on zdoom, what the heck happened here?
http://i.imgur.com/kCXrs0d.png

EDIT: also, on E3M5, this sector hurts you
http://i.imgur.com/AtvBAqX.png

EDIT2: sorry, forget the 1st image, looks like it's an engine bug with the latest SVN of zdoom

[C30N9]

E1M1:
- A really bad start, I mean, this map is much longer than being the first map.
- Chainsaw should be a secret weapon.
- Rocket Launcher? Isn't it a bit early?
- Lost soul could be found in UV.
- The exit should be a switch, not a teleporter pad.
- Nice style anyways.

E1M2:
- Nice map, really. Had fun through this.
- Rocket Launcher, again a bit early (plus not a secret).
- Wonderful theme switching.
- Trap for the yellow key should include more monsters.

E1M3:
- Map looks nice, but somewhat empty, try adding corpses around and decoration things.
- The trap for the blue key should have less monsters (there are lots of imps who arrive late).
- Some textures look a bit more related to E2.
- Fun map.

E1M4:
- Excellent map. Nothing boring here was found.
- Though it is somewhat just a re-texture of the original map without much change in geometry.

[Walter confetti]

thanks c3o9! anyway i'll see to work on my maps in those days!

[scifista42]

Magnusblitz said:

Couple bugs:

E2M7: Sector 189 is tagged as damaging even though it's an island in the slime

Thank you for spotting that! Fix: http://www.speedyshare.com/xuxJq/e4-2m7.zip
Also I'll play the alpha and let you know what I think about it as a whole :)

[The_MártonJános]

The only thing that stung eye to me was that there were quite a lot STARTAN misalignments in E1M2, and a bit fewer in E1M5.

[Fernito]

Cell said:

The only thing that stung eye to me was that there were quite a lot STARTAN misalignments in E1M2, and a bit fewer in E1M5.

In the case of E1M5, those misalignments were intentional, so it looks like an original made-by-ID map :P

[Walter confetti]

found this bug on e4m5 when i played it...

[Gothic]

This area in the E4-1M4 damages you
http://i.imgur.com/xbc5mfm.png

Also, I think the E4-3M9 needs a bit more of work, structurally is almost the same
http://i.imgur.com/0UR4wst.png

[EvilNed]

gothic said:

Also, I think the E4-3M9 needs a bit more of work, structurally is almost the same
http://i.imgur.com/0UR4wst.png

Hmm? How is that a problem?

[Gothic]

EvilNed said:

Hmm? How is that a problem?

It's not a problem, just a personal opinion

[Magnusblitz]

I wanted to raise the issue of names again, as we didn't really get an answer to scifista's point that some of the maps simply can't get by with a combination of the original two map's names. That, and some don't quite work because of the new map (i.e., "Nuclear Containment" doesn't have a lot of nukeage in it). I propose that we just follow the naming convention of original Doom - Episodes 1 and 2 are largly places that would exist in a real moonbase (Hanger, Refinery, etc.; E1M8 and E2M8 can be a bit "stranger"), Episode 3 is mainly hellish sounding places, and Episode 4 gets ominious Bible phrases.

[schwerpunk]

Magnusblitz said:
I wanted to raise the issue of names again, as we didn't really get an answer to scifista's point that some of the maps simply can't get by with a combination of the original two map's names. That, and some don't quite work because of the new map (i.e., "Nuclear Containment" doesn't have a lot of nukeage in it).

[trunct.]

That's because it's being mostly contained. If it was called "Nuclear Leakage" you might have a point. :P

But seriously, maybe you do have a point. I picked that name back when we were going for the name-switcheroo... figured since the original level names didn't make much sense, neither did ours. I guess I could change it to "Box Storage" or something. I dunno... I'm not good at these things.

[EvilNed01]

Given the project, I like the name mixing. I think I'll stick with Fear Base. I like it.

[scifista42]

As I said, after playing the alpha, I'm gonna share my opinions about it as a whole. Sorry for such a long review. By the episodes:

Episode 1
I honestly feel that this episode came off the worst of the episodes. Trying to be optimistic, I can say a good think about it, that the first five maps are going better in quality as they go. Unfortunately, the first map set a low standard.
When playing mods, I expect the first level(s) to impress me and encourage me to play further, but here it didn't work. The first map just didn't feel like the first map, not even the first E1 map, since it contains a lot of things (and not only THINGS) that shouldn't appear right in the first map, or even E1. I already mentioned what I would change in Doomkid92's place, and it is: remove the chainsaw, backpack, rocket launcher, lost soul, the entire room with green armor, teleporter exit, red hellish textures and silver doors. You know, as a switche-gimmick, the map works, but as a starter map of E1 not.
Subsequent maps, as I said, are getting better and better. Either in the means of gameplay, visuals and loyalty to E1 style and progression. E1M5 is, in my opinion, the top. E1M7 is also very good, only it contains teleporters, which I personally don't mind, but they aren't E1 thing.
To sum up and recapitulate, I was expecting E1 from being the best from all episodes, but the result was quite different. Surely from the view of a player of classic E1-styled maps. But what is important is that all mappers succeeded in the intended "switching rooms", everyone in his own style. Variety is good IMO. If only the first maps were...
I'd rate this episode by 3/5.

Episode 2
When I was mapping for this project and picking maps, I thought about how to generally emulate an episode's style. In E1 and E4 it was clear, in E3 it's just hell, and what about E2? I came to conclusion that the best way to emulate Episode 2 style is to emulate Sandy Petersen's style - make something gimmicky, with weird texturing, extensive use of light effects but non well managed lighting/shadowing itself, and overall, rather ugly.
So I was really surprised to find out that our Switche-E2 resulted into something so awesome! The maps this time really fully resembled E2 style and were nice looking and fun to play at the same time. I confess that I feel ashamed for my E2M7 now, honestly and without exaggerated self-criticism I'd say it is the worst of them all.
The episode impressed me right from the first map. And the second map maybe even more! I liked it when played the old version, and now it's even better! If there were any mappers that proved a real talent at particularly converting/emulating episode's styles, then it's traversd and schwerpunk. Hats off, guys.
All the other maps keep going with the trend of quality the first two maps set up. No real disappointment arrives until my map. The only problematic map is E2M5, but in different means - it is way too difficult. Like an E4 map. But as a joy-greedy player you would be only glad :) The last map is also something that much surpasses the original.
Well this episode really turned out well. And considering the two remaining ones are claimed by Xaser and Capellan, we can look forward to more great stuff ;) For as it is now, I give 4.5/5

Episode 3
Here it all started, and many of the maps here are strong. But one by one...
In my honest opinion, Hellgar is a cool name, but for a name of an enemy and not for a (first) level. But to tell it straight, the map naming here is something... atypical... and odd in the worse meaning. I'll return to this topic at the end of this post...
I wanted to say, Hellgar as the first contributed map starts the episode well. I cannot help myself but thinking that despite the texturing, the gameplay style reminds me E1, with the progression and newly added secrets. Probably it's just because I know E1M1 too well :)
As the original E3 is absolutely inconsistent in visuals, gameplay, monster counts or difficulty, our new E3 is inconsistent as well. Not criticising that, I just wanted to say by this that it is something characteristic to E3, we're used to it and therefore our E3 feels right.
The best map of this episode may be E3M5, E3M1 and another map I like is - mine :D. Well, OK, no, I'll let it to other's judgement.
Without the final map, it isn't possible to evaluate the episode as a whole, but after what I've played, I'd look forward to it :)
For now, 4/5

Episode 4
I don't know what causes it, but E4 maps seems to be somehow easy. I mean, the style of E4 is easy to emulate. You don't have to put so much work and thought it in and the result is still amazing. These maps in my opinion succeeded the best to keep episodes style, which might have been expectable. But really, they have an atmosphere - all of them! Some of them really stunning atmosphere, like E4M1, E4M6 and E4M7, which I liked the most. There is also Memfis's "Cruel Anomaly" which is a great ending for E4, by being annoyingly difficult :) All maps here were great. I give 5/5, must do it!

The megawad as a whole
As a whole, well, it's a mixed bag. There is good stuff, there is worse stuff and then there's ultra-superb stuff. For anyone playing it I'd recommend (to get the initial enthusiasm) to start by any episode but Episode 1, that is true. Trying to stay anyway optimistic, I believe all and every map is worth playing for its way of recreating/reimagining the original Doom 1, which is fun alone.
On idgames I'd rate this 4/5, as a rough average of my ratings of particular episodes. I also look forward to the maps not released yet.

The map names
Well, and now about something I have had doubts from the point Death Egg first mentioned it. Naming of the maps. Initially I assumed the slot names won't change at all. E.g. to see on the automap: "E1M1 : Hangar" or "E2M8 : Tower of Babel". Mixing level names might sound cool in max 20% of instances, but the rest would make a nonsense, or something which don't correspond to the actual map at all. I'm sorry that I'm repeating myself just in other words - I wanted to also comment on Magnusblitz's suggestion. If we could unify at something in the regard of map names, I think it would be the best. I already think it looks weird when some map names are clever puns, some are totally unfitting and embarrassing puns and my maps are a speciality among these, which I never wanted. What Magnusblitz said sounds good to me. Giving a map a name which it really matches, only taking into account these simple rules. I'd vote for it.

That's all for now. Sorry again for a long post (which I was writing for hours) and finally - my intention wasn't at all to offend anyone, so I apologize if I sounded like that. I only wanted to give a review.

[Death Egg]

Thanks for the incredibly in-depth review, scifista42. I'll have to agree with you on both Episode 1 and Episode 2; for the most part Episode 1 wasn't as strong as I'd hoped it'd be, (Including my E1M6. Not sure about E1M9, I mean, there's not really much else to do with that map.) while Episode 2 came out brilliantly. I'm really excited to see how the final two maps will come out for it.

I also have to agree that the naming system has really only worked for a couple of the maps. A lot of them, like Hellgar especially, come off as just amateur. (Though Against Thee Processing is kinda humorous to me) I'll have to think of better suited names for mine. Only potential one I can think of right now is E3M1: The Baleful Fluids.

[The_MártonJános]

Fernito said:

In the case of E1M5, those misalignments were intentional, so it looks like an original made-by-ID map :P

Eh, I don't mean aesthetic correction, but in E1M5, I've seen autoaligned STARTAN that had the texture progression over a corner. That isn't anything ID-like and is rather ugly IMO.

[Magnusblitz]

I thought E1M5 was one of the better-looking maps in the set, but I was curious to see if I could spot what Cell was talking about so I took a quick lookthrough with some screenshots.

This one (both corners of the room) looks fairly bad, as the brown part aligns with a grey part on the corners.

Same room, the right corner above the door lines up lines-wise, but color-wise there's a brown/grey match again. (Left corner too, but not as obvious).

This one I don't mind since there's a metal border and height change, this might be what Fernito's talking about.

This one similarly has a height change but no metal border.

Boo! And across from it, this one too.

[Walter confetti]

just a taste of the map i working (only a unfinished layout but i almost said a good 80% of the map):

http://files.drdteam.org/index.php/files/get/p0psTztSp8/e2-4m4-alpha.zip

i know there will be something to improve, just let me know!

[Fernito]

@Magnusblitz, Cell: OK guys, I'll fix those misalignments.

[Gothic]

I have to ask, what do you think about the difficulty on my maps E1M7, E3M6 and E4M7?

[scifista42]

@gothic: I think it is just the right, either the monster count and difficulty itself, for every of those maps. I thought there's too many monsters in E3M6, but then I checked the originals (both E1M6 and E3M6) and found that they have quite a lot of them too, so it's not that bad. I'd say you don't have to worry about this.

[Magnusblitz]

I just took my first spin on E4M7. Wiped on the cyberdemon on the first try and was able to beat the level on the second try without saves from UV pistol start (albeit very low on health/ammo), so feels pretty good.

[Death Egg]

I thought that the difficulty on the three fit the episodes just fine, too. I've updated the wad with the following changes:

* Added the newer versions of E2M7 and E4M5.
* Changed E3M1's name to The Baleful Fluids.

[scifista42]

Seeing the longer E3M1's name, a question emerged in my mind:

How (if at all) will we handle changing level names on the automap in vanilla? From what I've heard, it's not as easy as a simple .deh patch for ports, or am I not right?
IMO it'd be good if we could change them, but not necessary, as most vanilla projects don't bother with it too.

[NoneeLlama]

I went throguh E1 yesterday, and I must say, E1M5/E2M5 came out amazing. To me, it felt like a geniune Romero map.

[schwerpunk]

scifista42: Map (and ideally, author) names on the automap are somewhat important to me. It would save me having to Alt+Tab to the readme.txt, plus it just feels more professional.