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dobu gabu maru

The DWmegawad Club plays: 2002: A Doom Odyssey (My God... it's full of imps!)

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Memfis said:

It's not like you just get a certain amount of damage at some point of the map and you can't do anything about it. You can try to plan your route so that you get exposed to damaging floors as little as possible. You can try to learn to move efficiently with straferunning (maybe even sr50) to minimize the time you are standing on them. Sometimes you might want to stand on lava a little more than necessary because there is a very good firing position on it. Or because the ground is so crowded that standing on lava is actually more safe. If all that is not strategy, then I don't know what is. In any case, I already know what my next map will be all about. :)


See the thing is though, I do feel like this map has the problem of "taking a certain amount of damage and can't do anything about it." There are ways to make fighting in lava interesting, but this map doesn't really do it. There are just too many areas where you're forced to run through blood/lava and take some damage if the RNG doesn't like you. Couple that with the switch-hunt nature of the level and it becomes immensely frustrating. By the end of the map I was at 12 health and just couldn't afford to explore anymore because there wasn't enough health.

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Capellan said:
There was a cyberdemon in my version; looks like it was removed in the 10 year anniversary edition. I killed it with a crusher.

Aha! I have obviously played 2002:ADO before then. :-) (unless the map appears elsewhere too). Must've been 10 years ago, though (seriously... ugh now I feel old). Thank you, Adam.

EDIT:
E3M8 -- Spider Temple
Another good map, though not quite as good as E3M7. Mad props to Paul for actually making the boss map a proper map, like Adam said. It's a hellish temple like the title implies. The start is fairly tough from a pistol start, you have to play a bit of slalom past some Barons to get to the red key and the plasma/RL room, and from that point you can just stick to those weapons. Fights are pretty good throughout, no real traps though (a bit of a shame) and the helpless imps in the RK switch room was weird.

Health is tight up until you get to the double teleport section at the very end, where you get some more health which lasts you until the boss fight. The ending fight which could have been great is, like the others have commented, made pointless because of the invuln just lying there. While this is acceptable (although I would have preferred not to have them) for E3M5 and E3M7, it is a poor design desicion for the last boss fight, the climax of the whole episode.

Anyway, a pretty good map, maybe the third best in the episode, but not a classic. No secrets, but the BFG should have been marked secret. --4/5

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Episode 4 is loosely based originally going between two tech sections through a hellish landscape to get to the other side. First two maps are tech(ish) then e4m3-7 are hell with the occasional sight of tech. E4M8 is tech again.
I'm surprised you liked e4m1 (glad I'm not in the minority). I think it's an ok map (there are worse) and it kind of makes the 10th anniversary edition a bit odd with it removed. I shall review both tomorrow.

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E3M5:
Huge improvement over the snore-fest E3M4, but then that's not exactly difficu-... wait, what the fuck? This is an entirely new map. Cool..?

Okay, so we're already off to a 'why?' moment, with a bunch of items being in your path. No, not the Chaingun and ammo. I mean the lines of Health/Armour Bonus items. I'll never understand why anyone does this; I know they're only 1% a piece, but I don't fucking need them. I can't be bothered to find the words to describe how fucking lazy/sloppy this so-... oh, I just did. Well whatever, let's just get on with the rest of th-oh Christ the walls are lowering and there's shit all over the place. RUN AWAY AND... shoot it from the nearby doorway. I don't know, maybe I got lucky. A nice surprise, but I was still mumbling and cursing about the stupid fucking item placement to really appreciate this moment like I'd have wanted to. Bah.

Speaking of surprises, this is the exact opposite.

Corpses... ammo... and a special item.

OH BOY, I SURE HOPE STUFF DOESN'T TRY AN AT-ah there we go. These attempts at catching you out are really, really easy to circumvent. You just go around the item, face the doorway, then run forwards. Everything teleports in and gets left standing around, scratching their dicks in confusion while you suddenly re-emerge from the doorway and blow their fucking head off. Maybe they're supposed to be obvious, but then in that case why bother?

Trying to pick specific moments out of this map that stand out isn't easy, because it flows so well; it's clean, it looks good, progression is pretty straightforward without the fighting being obvious or boring, and as you progress further in it becomes apparent that this wasn't one of the original works for these reasons. The complete change is very welcome though, and this is fun. I... like this map? Yeah, I like this map. There are a few minor issues, sure, but they can be forgiven... or at least they can be forgiven for now.


But some of the ambushes really do need work...

It's hard to accept this map alongside the others, because quite frankly it shows so many of them up for being the archaic, adventure-by-numbers hunting trips that they are. Unlike the geriatric originals, here we get stuff approaching from various angles without it always being an 'ambush event', there's less symmetry all round, the secrets don't appear to be a whole bunch of unmarked cryptic bullshit (although I don't even know how I found some of them, they apparently just opened for me at some point), and you're genuinely absorbed by what's going on. Even this obviously fake exit (sorry, but it really was obvious) didn't bother me, because I was fairly sure that whatever happened was going to be enjoyable.

I can already hear the walls behind me lowering, your 'fake exit' trap has failed.

Much enjoyment throughout this little excursion, a very welcome replacement for the old E3M5. Okay... and now it's down to finding the secret exit. This is... ah, well just look at your Automap. You'll know there's an exit, because you see it when you approach the regular exit.

I'm going over there even if it kills me.

You'll see on the automap that one of the chambers filled with corpses/gore/torture victims/other shit has a difference. And here it is! Shoot it, and you'll hear something open behind you. Go for a swim, and that's all you need to know.

NOVELTY AHOY!!

If the shootable wall wasn't enough of a hint for where this is going to lead, allow this regular wall to fill in the gaps.

We're off to see the Führer, the wonderful Führer of... uh... stuff.

Wait, what's up with these stats? Oh no... oh Jesus fucking Christ!

Oh shit, I didn't realise I took that long to get through here!

Now about the stats; forget the time, we're all used to seeing me display crap times. I mean everything else; why isn't it at 100% Well this is some fucking nonsense and bollocks on the part of the author and his infinite 'wisdom'. For whatever mysterious reason, you choose between going for the regular exit and fighting a Cyberdemon, or accessing this secret exit. But... there isn't a way back from the somewhat bizarre and shoehorned-in showdown! I don't know what's going on here. You can leave the secret exit area and go for the Cyberdemon fight, but why not the other way around? This is really screwed-up, and the sort of thing I really wouldn't expect from such an experienced mapper. Come on, sort this stupid shit out; let us 100% this place AND go to E5M2!

I mean really. For fuck's sake. What a way to sour what's otherwise a very good, very enjoyable map.

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E5M2:
There's really not much to say about this one, is there? It follows the rigid, blocky design of what you expect from Wolfenstein 3D-themed stuff, but it does try and use some height variation on occa-... okay it does it once.

SORCERY!

That's about it. It does try to do something 'new' by including the usual hellish minions alongside the SS, but really, this sort of thing doesn't work even as a novelty super-super-secret level. Why? Because it's not an easter egg recreation of an old Wolfenstein map. It's a wholly original level, so what we're getting is a needlessly restricted map layout following the Wolf 3D theme. It's fine for what it is, but that's all.

That's not to say it doesn't have one or two good moments; the Spider Mastermind is well-introduced with the whole area apparently shifting -- you get vibes of 'Grosse' with the run-up to this point, you expect the door to open as usual with a Cyberdemon ready to try and stick explosives into your face, only for all you see ahead to jump the fuck around and BAM...

...you take it out in one hit.

Fine, so it wasn't that good. Arrrgh. The Cyberdemon itself... well, he was expected, wasn't he? I hope nobody got caught out by this thing.

Because when there's one monster left at the exit and you're not on E4M8, it ain't gonna be a Zombieman.

After all this, it's time for the secrets... and this is the one time for this WAD that I'm not going to rage over hidden stuff that can't be detected by any means other than humping the shit out of every wall in the area. Why? Because that's what Wolfenstein 3D was. A game all about wall-fucking, with a bit of FPS action every now and then.


Most of that time was spent looking for secrets. Sometimes I hate myself for wanting to find them.

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Starting with the old edition first then moving on to the 10th anniversary one.

E4M1 old ed: A really small, compact, yet aggressive level. Most of the danger comes from sergeants lurking behind monsters and walls. I enjoyed it for what it was, and thought it was an interesting opener to episode 4, distancing itself quite far from the original E4M1… don’t know why Corfiatis replaced this map as there wasn’t anything inherently wrong with it.

E4M1 10th ed.: Another small starter level that packs in more flavor than the previous E4M1. It begins with an imp n’ pinkie punching parade but works in some stronger monsters once the shotgun is introduced. The traps, while not particularly deadly, do force the player to move around a bit more. I enjoyed this overall, although the final wave of pinkies was a bit perplexing given that the berserk pack at the start negates any threat they might deliver… mixing in a baron or some imps would’ve spiced up the design.

At least neither of these levels were a pushover. I'm interested in seeing where the rest of this episode goes, since E4 doesn't really have an explicit theme (other than a bunch of green).

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E4M1 -- Unity - 100% kills / 100% secrets
I've got no real memory of the map that this one replaced, so it doesn't really have any particular 'shoes to fill', so to speak. Like E3M5, its modern vintage in comparison to Paul's other maps in the set shows itself through classier lighting and a much more smoothly interconnected and vertically-inclined layout, like the way the eventual blue key grab loops back on an earlier area which itself looped back on and allowed access to the shotgun on the tall metal post that you see at the outset. Rather than the traditional wood/metal/marble theme of the original E4, the theme here is a relatively open tan techbase that is largely overgrown by vines, with touches of marble and metal here and there....I guess some might say it's vaguely E2-ish, but I think it looks more natural and less chaotic and warped, somehow. I want to single out the two-level exit chamber with the blue torches--I think that room looks excellent, one of the best in the WAD thus far. I was also pleased to see the inverted crucifix sigils at the start--I guess after all these years Paul is getting over his reluctance to invert the cross, which always made his Hell maps carry an impression similar to watching an originally R-rated movie on network TV (e.g. with all of the nudity and most of the swearing and violence censored). The action isn't as mean-spirited as in the original E4, although those uncomfortable with some Tyson play might disagree unless they find the ammo secret near the Baron (I gladly punched through most of the map). I've got no problem with the pinkie rush at the end that Dobugabumaru mentioned; even though they're easily quelled with your augmented fist, they can still reach you, and thus still make a relevant contribution to the action in a way that all of those badly-placed demons/specters in E1 could not. I also thought the few cacos/souls that appear from beyond the map's playable boundary when you're going for the blue key were a nice touch. All told, this was a nice, satisfying opener with good looks and easygoing but nevertheless interesting play, certainly the best starting map in the WAD's present version, I think.

E4M2 -- Back to Base X - 100% kills / 100% secrets
This was an excellent map. In fact, the only thing I didn't like about it was the music track reused from E3M2, which gave me the excuse I'd been looking for to IDMUS to that jaunty banjo tune from E2M1 I'd been wanting to listen to again. What really appealed to me about this one was the action--the overall monster density isn't as high as it was in some of Habich's maps, but its ~170 monsters are generally used more effectively. Many of them teleport in at various points, often from more than one location/direction at once, which prevents the player from simply camping out and funneling them through a chokepoint--no, you have to use your agility and faculties of situational awareness more here than in most of the WAD's previous maps. It's not just teleportation attacks, though--Soto keeps things varied with some monsters in elevated firing positions and a couple of other trap types, like the combination rising bars/lowering walls trap near the blur sphere. The level is linear in progression but for the most part neatly-integrated in design; the central area with the blue card/red switch is used more than once for major battles, making the map feel like it has a focus without relying on the keydoorhub motif we've seen so many times in this WAD now. Also included is a bit of ooze-slogging (should be BoS-approved, since there are a sufficient number of radsuits to make it to the exit without taking any slime damage), which does represent the one awkward part of progression if you want to max the map but leave via the secret exit (speaking of which, it seemed odd to me that the secret exit didn't involve any secret tags, even though it wasn't exactly terribly difficult to locate). Aesthetically it keeps in step with the theme of the previous map, essentially being a dyed-in-the-wool Phobos base with the addition of a few marble demonface slabs here and there, not unlike parts of "Dawn of the Dead", I suppose. Lighting is simple but well-handled, too, a cut above that of many of the previous non-Aro maps....if I seem like I've been complaining about lighting a lot, it's not because I demand/expect sector-rich gradient detail everywhere, but because I think DooM generally looks best in the mid-range and lower areas of the lighting spectrum, with bright light and deep darkness used for contrast, and most of the maps in 2002:ADO thus far have tended to be pretty bright a lot of the time, regardless of setting. This one just seemed to hit all the right notes for me, and I reckon it was my favorite map in the whole megaWAD so far.

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E4M1 - Playschool by PCorf (old version)
This is a short map open and all connected together except for the exit room. This is quick and pretty brutal shotgun only work with all the beastery here apart from boss monsters. I like this map and don't really understand peoples problems with it.

E4M1 - Unity by PCorf
Found 2/3 secrets and I think i know where the last is (couldn't access it though)
This was a nice map, similar in style to the old level, but a bit larger and more complex with a berserk styled gameplay rather than the dense monster shootout. It was fun as well though perhaps a little easier than the original map.

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E3M6:
Oh... oh no...

The feeling of ill-will I bear toward the author of this map cannot be expressed in words.

Some of you might be expecting me to rage endlessly about this one, but I have to say that it's a huge improvement over the original for the simple reason that Radsuits exist.

It still sucks big sweaty spunk-encrusted hairy elephant cocks though. The level of bullshit that this map contains is beyond measure. Everyone's already said everything standard about how frustrating and shitty this level is, so I'll just pick out some of the less conventional lumps of shittiness:

This.


These block movement if you're against the wall, because they're larger than the room available on the wall. Is making the wall a bit wider -- so that, oh I don't know, they actually fucking fit properly -- too complicated a process?


Having to run across here constantly is so fucking tediously shit that I just have to mention it again myself, regardless of how many times it's also been mentioned by others. Oh, and there's a magically blocking decoration which is way above your position. Sloppy.


The absolute worst system of running around all over this shitty fucking place hitting switches to get here. Fuck this, I'm out.


A spiteful, horrible piece of shit that should have been deleted forever. I am never playing again for as long as I live.


E3M9:
Not much to say. It's almost -- almost -- worth finding this map, just because you are virtually guaranteed to leave with a lot of ammo, and 200% health. Well, unless you're a stupid greedy grasping son of a bitch who grabs Soulspheres the moment they're discovered. Let's just get to the point.

This is the 'boss', I guess.

This Cyberdemon is something of a novelty, and will kill a lot of stuff at the end for you if you're patient enough to let him do so. And fast enough to not get destroyed when unleashing the next bunch.

Here comes Wave 2!

And then you leave feeling very healthy and well-stocked for the next bunch of stuff. Wonderful.

Just a shame that there are no Mega-Armour pickups.

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E4M3
Fighting barons in close confines with only the shotgun. Yay!

No, wait. Not yay. The opposite of that.

I quite liked the start of this level, but once we got to the surprise baron at the yellow key, things started to get a tad frustrating, when it comes to gameplay. I evaded that fellow, but the level was more than happy to double-down. Thus shortly thereafter I found myself – for what would definitely not be the last time – trying to deal with two barons while stuck in a narrow cul de sac.

Strangely, after many tough encounters with limited resources, the level hands over a blue armor and a plasma gun right before the end game. It allowed me to exit in pretty good shape.

Visually, the level is good. The texture selection is a complete change from the previous two maps, being much more in the style of the original E4, and the architecture is adequate. I was going to say good, but I think adequate is probably more true. While there are many nice looking areas, there's also the gameplay aspect of architecture to consider, and most of the fights here aren't that interesting, in terms of their layout: there's not that much use of height in the fights, with most enemies being on your own plane. The exit room is an exception, but not an interesting one: you can safely snipe the enemies from below, at minimal risk. Not much fun. Also, there's a rather tedious back-and-forth switch section to get to the blue key.

E4 has so far been a mixed bag, to my tastes. It's certainly better than E3M5-6, but still pretty frustrating in its design.

Edit: does anyone know the reason E4M1 was replaced in the 10 year version? It seems an odd map to target for removal.

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Oy! 5 maps in one sitting. I was woozy at the end of it.

E3M5 – Paul Corfiatis – Kills – 100, Items – 96, Secrets – 14. Time 56:34. End Health 100, Armor 0. Death Count – 3

I’d heard a lot of good things about this map but I wasn’t thrilled with it. This map had its moments but overall, the gameplay was too switch-hunty for me. My favorite part was the teleport trap at Sector 150. Got some real multi-direction action there, and also 2 of my 3 deaths. The first came while I was shooting rockets at all the Imps and Sergeants on the distant nukage falls. I knocked one of them off the falls – thank you, source port! – and it got close, leading to an auto-aim rocket death as it dragged my missile into the ground in front of me. I died again somewhat later as I was backing away from a Baron on the metal path that rose from the nukage. While dodging slime I fell into the toxic waste. Klutz death!

My least favorite part was the crate area switch-hunt where you had to raise 3 columns to reach a teleport. This was pure torture for me. I even missed the RL secret because I never saw the switch. I groaned through this whole section. And then pcorf went and put yet another Medikit in front of yet another switch. This shit is pathological! I mean, for fuck’s sake, what’s with this guy? I can’t believe me and Baron are the only ones bitching about this. Weren’t these maps playtested? Didn’t anyone mention this to pcorf? And I can’t believe Baron failed to mention this nonsense in his comments. Oh, fuck it.

Got killed once by the teleporting Cyb. Nice touch, an idea I’ve used myself. I was ready to start almost liking this map when, after I raised another metal pathway from another nukage field, I lost 10 health points when I started to cross it. Whaa-aat? Yep, pcorf made the very first step a damaging floor. You can see it bigger than shit in DB2.

Parts of this map were good-looking, especially the Doom Museum dioramas near the yellow door, but overall pcorf has done better. Mainly, I disliked the gameplay, and I’m also butthurt because I got only 14% secrets. How do you get 96% Items and only 14% Secrets? And I’m a mapper! I feel like a moron.

E3M6 – Chris Hansen – Kills – 100, Items – 95, Secrets – 20. Time 21:30. End Health 22, Armor 65. Death Count – 7

The way everyone yapped about this, I was scared shitless going into it. But ya know, I liked it! This threatens to be my favorite action map of the episode, and with only 94 monsters on UV! I even left at least one radsuit unused. Not that I’m claiming badass status, because I got whacked and whacked hard. In fact, at one point I had no idea what to do, I was at low health, I had lava to cross, and I was tempted to rage-quit, but I took a break, ate my spinach, and came back to it. It wasn’t easy, but it wasn’t insane, either. Some nice, mean traps, but – wait, I almost forgot the one thing I hated – Imps firing through walls! Are you fucking kidding me? The cheapest of all cheap tricks, like whatshisname (Edit: Denis Moeller, a project leader) did on Map01 of (cough!) Memento Mori 2 (cough!). I'm guessing Chris did this to draw attention to the secret exit, but jeez. Anyway, I didn’t find my way there because at the end I was so rattled and low on health that I just wanted out. Very nice map overall. Nothing much to look at, but it plays real well. BTW, even though I sucked at secrets again, I did get the PG and BFG.

E3M7 – Paul Corfiatis – Kills – 100, Items – 91, Secrets – 100. Time Sucks. End Health 180, Armor 186. Death Count – 1

A pcorf map means you can expect switches. Lots of switches. About 2,950 in this map alone! And where you find switches in a pcorf map, you find things in front of them that don’t belong there, like boxes of shells and -- God help us all – Medikits! Like the time I went through this horrible lift maze where each higher level had one or two Sergeants. I killed ‘em all without taking one hit, grabbed the final lift, and there I am, at 99% health, staring at a switch with a fucking Medikit in front of it! Goddamn! Why does this happen again and again? Did playtesting reveal that most players got shot to pieces by Sergeants on the way up? How? I’m a reflex-challenged Doom fossil who can barely prepare my morning oatmeal while juggling my colostomy bag, yet I took zero hits. Zero . . . fucking . . . hits. Curse you, Paul, all the way back to your crustiest Neanderthal ancestors!!!!! :D

Apart from this nonsense, I found most of the map fairly entertaining. I especially liked the E1M1 homage, and the overall mix of Hell and Tech Base. The utterly crazed switch hunt for the red key did have some nice traps in it and moments of serious combat. I got killed once, after all. The Caco teleport trap after you shoot the first gun switch was a nice battle. And getting 100% Secrets on a pcorf map? Unheard of for me, but thanks, Paul, for putting a Computer Map behind a panel I checked just for the fuck of it. If not for that, I’d have gotten 20% or less. :D

This is a good-looking map, sometimes great looking, showcasing pcorf’s usual expert construction and iffy gameplay.

E3M8 – Paul Corfiatis – Kills – 97, Items – 100, Secrets – Zero. Time 19:12. End Health 186, Armor 80. Death Count – 2

Paul redeems himself here with a map that isn’t blindingly beautiful, but plays pretty damned well. I liked it. I had anxious moments with Barons. There were a couple areas that reminded me of the jump-secret area in E1M9. I was killed by a Baron and once by the Cybs before I figured out the trick. Overall, I had a great time. The best boss map yet.

E3M9 – Sam Woodman – Kills – 100, Items – 33, Secrets – 0. Time 10:12. End Health 170, Armor 0. Death Count – 4

Sam Woodman comes through! I had to pistol-start this one, so it didn’t take long before I noticed – again – that Sam Woodman is a graduate student of The Paul Corfiatis School of Item Placement. I spent as much time tip-toeing past Medikits as I did fighting monsters! God-fucking-damnitalltohell! :D Sam, listen to me, pcorf is Satan! Okay? Do not copy pcorf’s item placement. Do not copy Satan!

Other than that, this is a good-looking map with some nice fights and varied environments. I’ll say that all the commentary led me to believe I’d have an easy time of it, with a safely pitted Cyb. Not so fast! The first Sergeant fight outside the Cyb room dropped me to 37%. I went and grabbed one of the Medikits – insanely placed in front of a blue door – came back and was alarmed to discover that lots of monsters were keeping Cybie company in the pit. While so enthralled, I was killed by a Sergeant on the platform. Then I made 2 more tries and did better but still got killed twice by Cybie himself. Turns out, he can actually shoot them rockets above the edge of the pit if he backs up a bit. I was misled! And once you kill Herr Cyb, the fight’s not over. Yowch!

I was punch drunk by the time I played this map, but I gotta thank Sam for making it fun as hell.

I’m not sure how to rate E3 against the other episodes. The maps I liked best – E3M3 and E3M6 – were not that popular, it seems. I was hot and cold with the pcorf maps, except for E3M8, which I really liked. I also really enjoyed E3M9, so that’s four fun maps. The only one I thought was totally lame was E3M4. So I guess E3 is a bit better than E1 thanks to some hard fights, but a bit below E2.

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Any thoughts for next month's megawad, btw? Since we're up to E4 of this wad now, it's probably time to start thinking about it :)

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I would suggest going new again
megawads released recently
3 Heures d'agonie
Hadephobia
Doomworld megawad project 2012
Can't think of any more off the top of my head but there probably are some.
Slaughterfest 2012 is close to release but that is probably not going to be liked by many, though playing this wad has been discussed by a few of us.

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I think it would be very cool to see the levels of some "hardcore" megawad discussed in such detail. How about ksutra?

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I would not be thrilled with a slaughterfest megawad. 32 maps of slaughter? Yay. But if that was the vote, I'd do it at a lower difficulty than my usual UV. I would, however, refuse the ultimate shame of Skill 1. ;)

I don't mind hardcore maps. A UV pistol-start of Memento Mori 2, Map 15 by Capellan, for example. Sheer brutality. I should send Adam my therapist bills, I think it gave me PTSD! I love something like that every now and then, but 32 times in a row? ;D

Going new sounds good, though. I lack the reference points to even decide among the options, so I'll go with whatever is chosen, and hope it's not a slaughter megawad.

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@Kristian Ronge; thanks for the straferunning link. I wonder how straferunning speed compares to Turbo 255?

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E4M9 -- De-Moon Side - 100% kills / 100% secrets
Here we are, Virgil's map. I can shed no light on why the original E4M1 was removed from the current version of 2002:ADO, but this one was most certainly moved out of the E3M5 slot to the 4th episode secret slot because it differs stylistically from pretty much every other map in the WAD. Aesthetically, it's wrought almost entirely from the WAD's added textures--the leering, wide-mouthed iron demonfaces, checkered tile flooring, Hexen-esque smallscale brown masonry, and that strange, garbled kaleidoscopic pink flesh (?) texture--which show up seldomly in all of the other maps, meaning that this one map looks like it comes from a different project entirely (the impression is completed in this version by the use of a night sky unique to this map). It plays unlike any of the others, as well, combining a very tight ammo balance with a scad of monsters comparable to what was seen in Habich's E3M3 (although a large portion of these are a reservoir of imps that teleport into an elevated cage in the first area as its occupants are killed), meaning that you spend a lot of the first half, which takes place in a somewhat irregular and cluttered outdoor yard, evading stuff and causing infighting while gathering resources and flipping switches--good movement skills are crucial here. Unlike E3M3, 100% kills is legitimately attainable from a pistol start, but doing so is going to require enough foreknowledge to make optimal use of the limited resources in the first half of the map, as well as finding at least the first two secrets, one of which is a crucial rocket cache in the first area, and another an equally crucial berserk pack in the same area; you need to save rockets to empty out the aforementioned imp cage efficiently, and you need the berserk pack to finish off everything else on this side of the red door (it cannot be opened from the other side), particularly the various Barons. The second half of the map changes styles to a lot of tight, oddly-angled corridors and overflowing monster closets (Virgil loves these two things) before terminating in an inverted version of the most famous scenario from Tricks 'n Traps--you're down on the floor with the angry cyberdemon, and the Barons used for distracting him are up on a ledge. Ammo isn't as tight in this half, especially if you find the last two secrets (which have very subtle visual clues) but the lack of breathing room means you can't afford too many mistakes, and the blue key trap will probably give some folks a rough time. I think this map is a mostly enjoyable and certainly invigorating workout, but I reckon the lack of flexibility in approach that it requires (again, typical of many of Virgil's WADs) is not going to be to the taste of some. It looks interesting, too, although parts of the indoor area are pretty damned garish and the 3D bridge effect seems forcibly shoehorned in.

Steve: I get the impression that you, like me, appreciate it when WADsters try to knock you down and steal your lunch money. I think you'll like what E4 has in store, with stuff like Soto's map or the one I just wrote about, and it also looks like Mr. Hansen is getting a little tired of playing nice (not that he was the most sociable kid on the 2002:ADO playground to begin with). I'm a little over halfway through and I already know that I'm finding E4 to be the WAD's high point....gotta tell you though, I wouldn't want to try some of this stuff as a keyboarder (looking at you, E4M3).


About next month's WAD, I'll reiterate that I'm pretty open to the great majority of things--new, old, slaughter, puzzler, gimmick WAD or traditional offering, whatever. Of all the new WADs Cannonball mentioned, I'd be most inclined towards Hadephobia, but Slaughterfest 2012 wouldn't turn me away, and I don't know much about Megaproject2012, meaning my experience there would be expectation-free; I've actually already played 3 Heures d'Agonie recently, so it'd be my last pick, but it has some good stuff in it that'd still be worth a replay, I reckon.

For my own original suggestion, I'll just go with Vile Flesh again....it's 32 maps by one guy, with a new soundtrack (also by that one guy), characterized by relatively large, exploratory maps, a generally medium-to-almost-hard level of difficulty (with some tougher spots), generally pretty tricky secrets (or at least I remember thinking they were) and strongly themed, interesting usage of the stock textures. Memfis mentioned Kama Sutra, which is also good fun; it has some unusual settings and a variety of map styles, sometimes feeling sort of Plutonia-plus in pitch, at others almost like Hell Revealed's true sequel (that is, it reminds one more of that WAD in style and atmosphere than HR II did). It's probably most famous for its ending map, of course, but that fixation doesn't do the rest of the WAD justice. I do wonder if it still has a sequel in production, or if that's dead in the water....

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E4M2 Back to Base X by Anthony Soto
Very good tech base from a very good mapper.
This base is well designed and makes some good traps, whilst the enemies are mostly small fry (imps, zombies, demons) there are a few cacos and barons thrown in and the gameplay is pretty tough with not much health and ammo. The secrets are very useful here.
The secret exit requires an easy to get yellow key which takes you to a room with a chainsaw, but there is more to this room than you would first think. I do find it odd that there is no secret tag for that. I think it might have been removed as the demopack record at the time by stx-vile used the secret exit which is a large waste of time so perhaps the tag was accidentally removed.
Still very good level here

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E4M4
Another "Thy Flesh" styled level, and one that I enjoyed more than the last. It did use the "barons in a narrow corridor" shtick of the previous level, but it did so only once, and in a place where it was actually possible to back off, if you were quick and lucky; or run past the barons (likewise), as there weren't protrusions on the wall to block you.

I thought the layout of this level was better than the last in most respects, actually. Similar stylistically, but the architecture was also designed to make for varied and interesting fights. You engage the hellspawn in corridors, on balconies with enemies on all sides, in arenas, and on walkways bounded by lava. There's a good variety of locations, each with its own challenges and strategic options. Thumbs up there. It also didn't sacrifice the looks in the process. Interesting that they were both done by Hansen (as is the next level), as I thought this was much better executed.

My favourite moment of the level was probably the yellow key trap. I don't generally like "instant monster" traps (the game has teleporters for a reason. Use them!), so I rolled my eyes a bit at the magically appearing baron, but the rest of the monsters 'porting in behind me made for a nicely frantic battle. This was particularly the case because they came through in two different areas, creating a multi-layered battle.

My favourite level of the episode so far.

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Episode 4 time

E4M1 Unity by Paul Corfiatis

A fairly small starter with a nice line in moving scenery. Lots of punching and health is a little dry, a few sneaky monster moments with stuff creeping up behind you. It always feels weird grabbing a berserk at the start when you have full health, but that usually means a lot of punching is expected. Rocket launcher secret at the end when all is dead, but otherwise I liked how the guns are drip fed in his one.

E4M2 Back to Base X by Anthony Soto

An episode 1 style base, though this seemed more modern than anything i remember in e1 of this wad, with more complex design and devious traps. Lots of surprise monsters in this map, coming at you from in front and behind. Speaking of which, how's this for annoying?

99 health with 2 medkits blocking the way, right before a major ambush. I was limping for a while after that. Overall this map was great fun, nicely varied and architecturally interesting, with some hairy moments. I couldn't figure out one of the secrets, but the secret exit was strangely simple to find after checking the automap.

E4M9 De-Moon Side by Virgil the Doom Poet

Nice looking map, immediately hits you in the face with some new textures. The fighting is very awkward, firstly theres a lot of beef walking around and not much ammo. Running around looking for shells and hitting switches just unleaashes more barons and cacos until it gets pretty crowded, and the space is very tricky to navigate in a panic. The indoor section is rather cramped and has some close quarter battles - by this time you have enough rockets to put the launcher to use, but no space to use it, so there is a lot of shotgunning barons to death which I will be glad to see the last of. The final room, at least I think it was - I was doing the tango with a cyberdemon while barons judged our dance moves with green missiles. I didn't stick around to finish him off and ran straight onto a teleport that exited the map. Only 66% monsters killed, I'm tempted to go back in there and see what i missed... but the red door seems to be one way only.

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mouldy said:
99 health with 2 medkits blocking the way, right before a major ambush.


I had pretty much the same experience. Sad that the issue would be entirely avoided by putting both the medikits on the same side of the corridor, but never has been ...

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Demon of The Well has my number. Must be some kind of Jedi Mind Trick. He knows exactly what I’m thinking. It’s eerie. But yes, I do like to get roughed up and have my lunch money stolen in Doom maps. Born victim, no doubt. The more you knock the snot outta me, the better I like it. And, just like any other passive-aggressive masochist, if I am not mistreated the way I want to be mistreated, I get vindictive! :D With that in mind, on to E4 . . .

E4M1 – Paul Corfiatis – Kills – 100, Items – 100, Secrets – 100. Time 17:50. End Health 50, Armor 100. Death Count – 5

I wasn’t looking forward to this map. Walking keyboarder with minimal skill is forced into Doom Tyson silliness. Punching Pinkies – to say nothing of Barons – is not part of my skillset. I know, I know, Sav88 is a keyboard player and he can dance on a Cyberdemon’s head. The comparison is withering. Anyway, given no choice in the matter, I figured it was time to start practicing the old Pinkie Punch and away I went. And died 4 times in a row. Got cornered and chowed on. Next time got cornered and fireballed, but did a little better each time. Took advantage of the stairs. Then I finally won through and – wait a second. Is there something in front of that switch? Is that . . . is that a Stimpack in front of the switch??? In the name of all that’s unholy – ah, I can’t do it anymore. At least it’s only a stimpack this time. This must go to the deepest subcellars of pcorf’s bone marrow. The guy sees a switch, and he just has to put a power-up in front of it. It’s a compulsion. It’s in his DNA. There’s no use fighting it anymore. Pcorf has won, I am defeated. At this point, the only option left is a jokewad. Don’t hold your breath.

The rest of the map is kind of easy by comparison, but I manage to get killed by a Baron who shocked the lunch outta me. And let it be said that I expected a trap to open behind me at the aforementioned switch, but pcorf pulled a fast one on me. I love it when people do that! I grabbed the Blue Armor, set off a niceass teleport trap, was attacked by a small platoon of Cacos and Lost Souls who arrived from outer space, opened a Caco trap (hah!), was attacked by more Cacos plus minor hellspawn in another room that reminded me of the E1M9 jump-secret area (pcorf has a thing for that structure), and overall just enjoyed the living shit out of this map. It looked really good, simpler than usual, but everything tastefully done, and of course, the almighty E4 sky makes everything look even better. Great start for the episode. Great music track, too.

E4M2 – Anthony Soto – Kills – 84, Items – 88, Secrets – 50. Time 23:08. End Health 100, Armor 200. Death Count – 4

I knew within a couple steps that I was in a higher order of Doom design. That should come as no surprise, because in my house, the name Anthony Soto brings fond memories of The Classic Episode, done with his partner in crime, the genius Jan Van der Veken. I look to my right and see what might be a homage to E1M2 of Fava Beans, which is a good thing, because that map is phenomenal. Everywhere I look, I see evidence of what I love most in Doom – Old Skool E1 Design at the peak of quality, all kinds of little things and elegant constructions that speak of a master at work. Yes, I can wax as rhapsodic as I can hurl a line of insults, it all depends on the map. In many ways, this map is almost like a lost level from Double Impact. It has that same level of quality and – just as importantly – the vicious killer instinct of a mapper who who wants to take me out if he can. Every trap is well-telegraphed and is twice as nasty as I expected it to be. How awesome is that? Soto not only delivers to my expectations, he exceeds them. Ah, such joy!

If there is one small criticism I can make, it would be this. As I was dancing away from a stern trap, I noticed something. I played the trap again, and went for what I saw, and next thing ya know, I have the keys to the kingdom. As I played around with this, I did complicated saving until I knew exactly what was what, and made sure I saved those goodies for the end. But it’s just conceivable that all this stuff comes a little too early.

The rest of the map features fine little battles. I remember fighting in a dark crate room when I suddenly had reason to ask, “Where the hell did those Cacos come from?” shortly before I was killed. This map was just exquisite all the way through. I played to both exits, getting 95% kills at the normal exit, and taking 23:08. But I elected to go the lower kill-count secret exit so I could enter that level with fresh Blue Armor and not have to pistol-start it later.

Overall, this map is fabulous, a beautiful and classy evocation of E1 themes with much nastier gameplay, and pcorf's music track is phenomenal, perfectly matched to the style and mood of the level. Maybe my favorite map so far. I hope the rest of E4 lives up to the first two maps.

BTW, I plan to play the original E4M1 before I tackle the secret level.

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Capellan said:

I had pretty much the same experience. Sad that the issue would be entirely avoided by putting both the medikits on the same side of the corridor, but never has been ...


It had to be pcorf's doing. He saw Soto's original placement outside of the trap and said, "No, no, you always put Medikits in front of the switch! Here, let me fix it . . ." :D

j/k

Well, it looks like even the mighty Anthony Soto can make this mistake. I missed it because I was either low on health or at 100 when I went in. Makes me feel better about my old maps. :D

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Speaking of getting knocked down and having one's lunch money taken....

E4M3 -- Hell Unleashed - 100% kills / 66% secrets
I'm going to assume that the map's full title is "(Barons of) Hell Unleashed." This was certainly the nastiest map in the WAD to this point (in fact, it's nastier than at least the next few after it, as well), displaying a killer instinct surpassing even Virgil's characteristic lack of hesitation in hurling lakes of monster HP at the player. The single overriding theme of the combat here is that Hansen is always carefully managing your ammo stores and always trying to get you trapped in a corner, usually with a number of Barons closing in; I was brutally butchered by the baron squad that materializes when the red switch is thrown on my first attempt--they cornered me in that tiny ashen closet next to the switch, and though I had found a secret plasma rifle, it only had enough ammo to take down two of them. I imagine that this scenario is exactly what Hansen had aimed for; well done pulling it off. Having thus realized that Hansen had decide to play for keeps in this map, I was able to clear it on the next attempt, though Hansen did his damnedest to corner me again, often using monster teleport lines placed right in front of closets or deaf/dormant groups to try and sandwich me between assorted packs of ravening hellbeasts. This culminated in the sinister blue skull trap, where I was nearly killed again by another cadre of Barons that phase in just as every exit is cruelly blocked off. I thought this sequence was very well-done, gradually ramping up the opposition via the series of wooden gates you open leading up to the skull room itself, and then giving you that pregnant pause, where you just know something unpleasant is about to happen, before the shit hits the fan. Lovely. This map also stands out from others so far in that it is aesthetically far more in a traditional Thy Flesh Consumed vein, with lots of marble, wood, and metal. Come to think of it, the dim, stuffy wooden corridors rife with iron support beams as well as Baron-related peril remind me a lot of parts of Richard Wile's "Crusades", although I reckon this is more mean-spirited. I was not able to find one of the three secrets--in fact, I don't have even the slightest idea where it might've been in this case--which probably hurt, as hi-test ammo was pretty rare in this one. I certainly enjoyed the rude awakening that this one provided.

Edit:

E4M4 -- Disreputable Stronghold - 98% kills / 75% secrets
Next up from Hansen is this fortress of brown composite and rusted metal, set in a small bloody caldera in the midst of limestone hills dotted with the impaled corpses of many human soldiers (I imagine that the blood was once water from a natural spring, but has been tainted by the demonic presence). Again, it kind of reminds me of some of the later parts of Jan Van der Veken's "Dawn of the Dead", in that respect. In comparison to the map before it it's a lot more laid-back, with the fights set out in such a way that the player generally has more options on how to handle them, and, perhaps more crucially, a lot more time in which to make that decision (although there is still a chance of getting cornered by a couple of Barons at the very end, I suppose). Capellan already mentioned what I feel was the map's standout fight: when you go to take the yellow skull, there's the immediate threat of the Baron, but also a slew of imps that teleport onto the landing across the blood lake, while a pack of pinkies starts heading up the narrow walkway towards your position, and some cacodemons start floating in from the east. You can hold your position and play defense; you can try to blast through the pinkies coming up the walkway before the cacos reach you in order to eventually fight the imps face to face; or you could do what I did, and fight it out from the keybox for a couple of minutes before leaping into the blood and dashing for the teleporter, quickly appearing right behind the imp horde, rocket launcher in hand. There are probably other ways to tackle this as well, and that's what makes it a fun fight (and fun map). Again, I couldn't find a secret--I was unable to reach the blue armor, though I can tell that there's probably a teleporter or something behind the door you start next to...just couldn't figure out a way to open it (it's not another one of those 5-minute triggers, is it?). Also, a couple of monsters failed to teleport into the playing area for me. Overall, this map's more comparatively gentle nature meant it didn't thrill me the way its predecessor did, but I still enjoyed it, certainly.

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MAP STUFF: I too would like to jump back to a newer wad, and leave an older one (Kama Sutra, Scythe or Vile Flesh) for May... I think switching between the two "eras" works well here. Given that, my vote is tied between Hadephobia and Slaughterfest 2012. I think it would be neat to have all of us try and tackle the evil nature of SF12 (plus some of the maps are an absolute blast to play) but I haven't played a lick of Hadephobia, and its contiguous theme and unraveling story would really scratch an itch I'm feeling. I'll have to see what other votes we have, but I think it may be primarily between those two unless we have some other serious contenders.

E4M2: This map, more than any of the others so far, I've noticed intentional game design. I enjoyed this tough romp quite a bit, as it had almost no down time, annoying tricks or gimmicky sections... perhaps my only gripe was how dark the one room with the crates was. Visually it was alright, nothing stellar but still serviceable; the gameplay was the highlight here. Can't really remember too much other than the opening trap since I played it last night, but the action hit all the right buttons for me as the battles actually had me very conscious of my ammo, surroundings and enemies... really liked the droning/bleak music too, felt that it fit well (at least in the 10th ed. it's different than E3M2)

E4M3: Didn't enjoy this one. There's a world of difference between Soto's crafty traps in M2 and Hansen's brutal, no mercy baron barrage in this map. Soto gives enough room and leeway to the battles that the player can handle them in any fashion he wants, while Hansen has more or less one way to deal with each of the traps here given how small and narrow all of the corridors were. I also find his low health approach to all of his maps to be extremely aggravating for me since I'm prone to making mistakes, and he demands near-perfection. This makes his maps feel more like a memorization game than an organic, fluid experience.

I mean, it did challenge me, but I felt like I gained nothing from finishing the map, other than a chip on my shoulder. A part of me wants to like his maps, as they're visually pleasing and well put together, but I still can't stand grabbing a key, a baron popping in and then permanently losing about 30% of my health for the rest of the level. It just feels like an unthinkable design choice in my opinion. And the red button trap is single worst battle in the whole megawad without that plasma gun, my god was that awful.

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Hadephobia vs SF12 = vote for Hadephobia, on my part. I would also be OK with 3 Heures, if we're sticking to recent releases.

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Magnusblitz said:

E3M5: BLOOD AND GUTS[/b]

Definitely feels like a new map given the amount of detail and striking visuals; I can tell a long time was spent on it. Like many of Paul's maps however, the actual gameplay is pretty meh.


Gameplay is never much fun to do and I'm not a very skilled player. I always sucked at the gameplay.

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E4M1: UNITY

pcorf said:
Gameplay is never much fun to do and I'm not a very skilled player. I always sucked at the gameplay.


Well, if it makes you feel any better, I really enjoyed E4M1! As mouldy said, it feels a bit strange picking up the berserk at full health, but unlike SteveD, I love punching things! While not quite E4 style (marble/brown/metal) I felt that it still had some of the same general feel with lots of browns and greens and lots of the yellowy-orange E4 sky. We also get a Baron right off the bat. Punchy punchy. I was finally forced to use guns near the end (especially because of the extreme dearth of health in this level), but even then, the guns are doled out at a slow pace that keeps things tight. Probably my favorite level so far.

E4M2: RETURN TO BASE X

Another map I liked a lot, and surprisingly, the first where I actually felt "my god, it's full of imps!" Action is good, visuals are good, and it flows well. Secret exit isn't painfully obtuse to find, either (if anything it might be a little on the easy end). Definitely an out-and-out techbase which feels a bit weird for E4, but oh well.

I admit I've been somewhat blase about the WAD as a whole so far, but these two levels have me excited for the rest of E4.

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E4M9: DE-MOON SIDE

Well, it's certainly got a nicely "out-there" aesthetic suiting a secret level, and the start is nicely run-and-gun for a bit. After that, it started falling off in quality. Running between the red key and the main building got old fast, and ammo seems a bit undertuned. Some might say it's nicely tight, but I was punching things more than I should've been (I doubt most people punch cacos and barons) and I exited the level with 20 bullets, 50 shells, 9 rockets and 100 cells - not exactly a full load. Some of the fights are just annoying, and placing barons in close quarters just leads to retreating and abusing corners. Didn't like the imp cage that constantly teleported more imps in, either - feels like it's punishing the player and preventing progress.

E4M3: HELL UNLEASHED

And yet, after complaining about the close-quarter baron fight on the last map, I enjoyed the one at the start of this one - dunno why (maybe just because I managed to kill it without taking damage on the first try). The RL trap at the start seems pointless since the player will likely already have a RL from level 2; 3 cacos is not worth 2 rockets. The three-baron trap on the red key switch is six shades of bullshit; there's no room to use the rocket launcher there and even with a plasma gun, there's not enough cell ammo. The only way to beat it seems to be hitting the switch and quickly running back outside the yellow door, which requires prior knowledge of the trap. The demon bridge has some strangely mistextured gargoyle heads around the upper ring of the room (strange in an usually aesthetically perfect WAD). Then it's lots of chainsawing cacos and demons, followed by another close-range triple baron encounter (but not as bad since there's more room to maneuver). I actually liked the imp/spectre room, especially since the darkness makes the spectres a threat. Kinda weird to give the player the plasma gun before the easiest baron encounter (with plenty of room to work with) in the level. After that, shoot some barons from a pit (I wonder if this room plays much differently without mouselook), and hopefully you have enough health or luck to not die from shotgunner bullshit.

Overall, while I want to like it for being challenging, for every good challenging baron fight (the first baron, or the blue key) there are bad ones (the red key one is nearly impossible the first time through, the last two encounters are relatively easy and anti-climatic). There's also not enough health, which basically forces lots of quicksaving/reloading.

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I agree that new release megawads should be chosen at least every other month. My vote for next month (if my bias, part-time club member self is allowed one) would go to Hadephobia. Even if I wasn't personally involved in it I would still vote Hadephobia in a straight shoot out with Slaughterfest 2012. I don't think I could stomach 32 slots of slaughter.

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