Strife Plot Questions

[Xfing]

I'm starting on a novelization of Strife: Quest for the Sigil and I need to have some plot points clarified. Today I found this:

http://doomquarter.tripod.com/oracle.htm

And it shed something of a new light on my knowledge of Strife up to that point. IMO, some elements of Strife's story maybe not so much as make no sense, but are very unclear and confusing. I'll post them on a list. Please comment on the point you feel you have a good explanation for.

1. How do you think the Order came into existence after the Entity's spaceship crashed? How much time could it logically take for a medieval world to change so much and incorporate all the technology?

2. How did the spectres of the Sigil come into existence? How and when was the Sigil created? And how was it distributed to the Order generals?

3. Why didn't the spectre-possessed Order generals simply convene, assemble the Sigil and free the One God, as each of them separately wanted to do? I know that Macil and the Oracle weren't of the Order, but their spectres' goal remained the same.

4. How and when did Macil get in possession of his Sigil piece? Was his allegiance strictly to the Order, or did he try to struggle with his Spectre and simply fail to resist its influence?

5. Why was the One God imprisoned in its spaceship in the first place? Was the creation of the Sigil just a plot for it to go free? Why was it imprisoned in a spaceship with keyholes that it didn't readily have a key to open?

6. If the Sigil was already there in the spaceship, then why didn't the ones who found it first use it to free the One God immediately? Why did they separate it into pieces and distribute them to the Order's generals, only for each one to later strive for the rebuilding of the Sigil anyway?

7. What of the rest of the world? The remaining continents, not to say countries?

I do already have some possible explanations for several of these questions, but I would like to hear your opinions first.

[Bucket]

That's quite a lot of questions. I thought YOU were writing the novel?

[Xfing]

Bucket said:

That's quite a lot of questions. I thought YOU were writing the novel?

Asking others what they think won't hurt, now will it? :)

You can answer only one of those, if you feel like you come up with something convincing.

[Springy]

Quite a lot of good questions (some I have wondered about, such as, Macil's piece of the Sigil). This would be a great idea! I love Strife and it would be good to see a fan made novel for it.

[Quasar]

Xfing said:

1. How do you think the Order came into existence after the Entity's spaceship crashed? How much time could it logically take for a medieval world to change so much and incorporate all the technology?

Almost immediately, with unexpected speed. The sentient virus is implicated in the hearing of voices, as it is the infected survivors who found and control the Order. The Entity communicates through the "virus" (which is likely nanotech based rather than strictly organic) and uses it not only to influence people in its search for the Sigil and desire to feed on life, but also to communicate its knowledge of advanced technology to those people to further its ends. This dramatic technological revolution results in a world of castles with computers embedded into their stone walls. Architecture and culture could not keep pace with it; it was, in effect, a technological singularity.

Xfing said:

2. How did the spectres of the Sigil come into existence? How and when was the Sigil created? And how was it distributed to the Order generals?

The beta strings of the Oracle's dialogue, as well as subtle hints hidden throughout the game world, reveal that the Entity itself and its offshoots, the Spectres, are beings which originated on the same world. At some point in that world's history, they and others created the "sufficiently advanced technology" and were then exiled into space, sealed aboard the vessel that was later called a comet.

The exile of the Entity was evidently a cataclysm-level event, as it left most of the ancient civilization in ruin (see below). Thus by the time Strife takes place, the world's cultures had only advanced as far as a stage roughly equal to medieval Europe.

Amongst the subtle evidence in the game regarding this are the Mayan-like ruins areas to which the Spectres and the Oracle instinctively gravitate, which additionally bare upon columns inscriptions in the exact same Mayan-like hieroglyphic language which appears inside the Entity's space ship.

The Sigil was the key used by the ancients to seal the Entity into its ship. You might conjecture that the Sigil fragmented when the ship crash-landed, and this damage to it was responsible for allowing the Entity's poisonous influence to leak out in the first place. In order to see to collecting the pieces back together, the Entity sent out the Spectres to possess individuals with an overwhelming desire to find and assemble the Sigil.

Xfing said:

3. Why didn't the spectre-possessed Order generals simply convene, assemble the Sigil and free the One God, as each of them separately wanted to do? I know that Macil and the Oracle weren't of the Order, but their spectres' goal remained the same.

Problem is, human selfishness and greed seem to have played some role in hampering the Entity's designs, for, though the Order possessed all five pieces amongst its adherents (if you believe Macil was always allied with the Order, at least), they kept it separated and came to a sort of balance of power between the leaders which might have gone on for quite some time longer had the Front not intervened.

Xfing said:

4. How and when did Macil get in possession of his Sigil piece? Was his allegiance strictly to the Order, or did he try to struggle with his Spectre and simply fail to resist its influence?

Open questions, and any answers are going to be speculation. It was intentionally left this way by Rogue. In my opinion, Macil probably started out good and was corrupted after the Castle strike when the Programmer's files decrypted by Feris gave him knowledge of the Sigil, which he admits to knowing little of until then ("we have reached the limits of my knowledge; seek out the Oracle").

However I've also seen BlackBird's assertions about him taken at face value by some Strife fans, whereby they see Macil and the Oracle as two different splinter factions from within the Order, both seeking to assemble the Sigil for their own purposes. Through the player character, these two splinter factions come into direct conflict with each other, driving the main choice you have to make in the game's plot.

Believe what you want, ultimately. I prefer Macil as a tragic character, a good guy turned bad by the Entity. His impassioned speech during the game's intro is what gives me no choice but to believe this about him.

Xfing said:

5. Why was the One God imprisoned in its spaceship in the first place? Was the creation of the Sigil just a plot for it to go free? Why was it imprisoned in a spaceship with keyholes that it didn't readily have a key to open?

The Sigil was part of a seal to keep him in the ship; the game's pretty clear on that when you take everything into account. It was imprisoned because, clearly, it was a terrible evil in control of "magic"-level technology - a world-ending threat bent on absorbing all life it can absorb and destroying whatever it cannot.

Xfing said:

6. If the Sigil was already there in the spaceship, then why didn't the ones who found it first use it to free the One God immediately? Why did they separate it into pieces and distribute them to the Order's generals, only for each one to later strive for the rebuilding of the Sigil anyway?

I think I may have answered this already. I don't think the Sigil *was* all in one piece but was already fragmented. For that matter, it's entirely possible and would make a lot of sense if the Sigil wasn't even ON the space ship but its parts were relics that had been long hidden on the world itself.

This makes more sense when you find the beta dialogue of the Oracle, where he states explicitly that the Entity and Spectres were ancient inhabitants of the very same world. I do not understand why Rogue made this less explicit in the final game as released, because as a result the game's plot makes less sense.

Xfing said:

7. What of the rest of the world? The remaining continents, not to say countries?

Epic stories must always be myopic in scope for the sake of not taking forever to tell. From the reaction of the Front, it is clear that the Order is a global threat to mankind. I'd assume that by the time of the game, the conditions in Tarnhill of slavery/serfdom/peasantry had become the predominant way of live in all civilized areas, and the Order was slowly sweeping through what few free lands remained.

[Clonehunter]

Wow, I'd really like to see this come to completion. At the same, it makes me really want to finish Strife.

[Xfing]

Thank you very much, Quasar, for your comprehensive answers. They all made sense and I'm sure they'll help me quite a bit when writing. It's gonna take a while, as I'm not a very focused person, but I'll probably finish it. Eventually.

But one thing remains odd to me. So to make sure: The Entity and the Spectres were created on the same planet the game takes place on, then exiled into space, but then they returned to the very same planet? It's kinda convoluted. It does explain the origins of the Sigil, but it is at least a bit weird for them to be exiled from the world only to come back. I would say that the temple beyond the catacombs was built by the Order already - seeing as it was shaped like the Sigil and all. Much is still unclear...

But as improbable as that seems at first, this assumption solves a surprising number of plotholes. I think I'll pursue this way of thinking. It would also add a great sub-plot for the Entity and the Ancients.

[Xfing]

BTW I've just found out the names of the writers of Strife's story. They're John Sanborn and Michael Kaplan. Is it possible to track those men down and send them an e-mail or something? Stuff like that would help immeasurably.

[Bucket]

It's a crapshoot. Some developers of high-profile products enjoy unsolicited e-mails from fans and so on. Some think they're above that. Some want to be left alone. Just find them and write them, and don't take it personally if they don't get back to you.

[darknation]

before you write them,make sure that the questions you want answered are absolutely not to be found anywhere on the internet first. You're more likely to get a response if you're not asking shit questions that they have answered fifty times already.

that said, I can't imagine the writers of strife are terribly busy these days.

it seems a strange project, to write a novelization of a computer game. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen a book based on a game that wasn't a criminal waste of trees.

[Devalaous]

Oh I dont know, the novels of the Assassin's Creed games are great.

[Xfing]

It's gonna be a novelization alright, but not released as a book. It'll be posted on fanfiction.net. Just like the novelization of Deus Ex. It was pretty decent, but when all is said I didn't like it, as it gave characters unnecessary romance subplots, ecpecially JC. Some characters should remain single, that's all!

[Necromancer-AMV]

Meh, I think you could probably take that unused dialogue tree as a grain of salt. I checked it out too when I was first working on Weapons of Rebellion, and it seems to me that even if Rogue had decided to include it, it would really have been something the Oracle was bullshitting you with to get you on his side. Rogue taking it out meant they either wanted the story to take another firection, or, were concerned about there being too much talky in the game.

[kristus]

darknation said:

it seems a strange project, to write a novelization of a computer game. In fact, I don't think I've ever seen a book based on a game that wasn't a criminal waste of trees.

Myst books were great. Though they weren't OF the games, but the events surrounding them and they were written by the same person who made the games to begin with.

[Xfing]

Necromancer-AMV said:

Meh, I think you could probably take that unused dialogue tree as a grain of salt. I checked it out too when I was first working on Weapons of Rebellion, and it seems to me that even if Rogue had decided to include it, it would really have been something the Oracle was bullshitting you with to get you on his side. Rogue taking it out meant they either wanted the story to take another firection, or, were concerned about there being too much talky in the game.

Yeah, the general consensus is that beta stuff isn't canon.

[Clonehunter]

darknation said:

I don't think I've ever seen a book based on a game that wasn't a criminal waste of trees.

http://www.marrowproductions.com/doom/images/Doom-Books.png

http://planetromero.com/rome.ro/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/doom_books-706970.jpg

[Quasar]

Xfing said:

Yeah, the general consensus is that beta stuff isn't canon.

Come up with a better explanation then. At least it's more canon than something somebody just shat out of their ass.

[Xfing]

Quasar said:

Come up with a better explanation then. At least it's more canon than something somebody just shat out of their ass.

Read some of my above posts, I actually liked that explanation quite a lot.

[Quasar]

Xfing said:

Read some of my above posts, I actually liked that explanation quite a lot.

Woops I really meant that reply toward the other guy. Sorry about that >_>

[Xfing]

Oh, btw something just dawned on me. Now that Strife has been re-released on Steam, I'll probably ask that question there too, but:

Why was the ancient temple shaped like the comet? Was it meant to be a symbol of hope or something (We eliminate the evil threat by shooting it out into space in the form of a comet)?

[Blastfrog]

Clearly, the game went through some kind of revision period between the time it was actually "finished" at 1.0 and the time it actually went to market at 1.2 (IIRC). I wonder why. The game always did feel slightly messy and unfocused, and some of the beta material seems to fill in the gaps quite nicely. It sure would be interesting to see the 1.0 version in full, especially because the number implies* they were considering releasing it in that state.

*I know that version numbers are actually arbitrary, but seriously, what else does "1.0" usually mean? Especially in a commercial context.

[Havoc Crow]

One thing that bothers me--just how far does the Order's influence spread? At first, I was under the impression it took over the world (or at least its civilized part), but the manual suggests otherwise:

You are a wandering mercenary, lead to the small town of Tarnhill by rumors of conflict between The Order, a well-equipped religious monarchy, and The Front, the rag tag resistance movement. The town is under martial law.

The way this reads, The Order's influence doesn't spread that far outside Tarnhill; if the "wandering mercenary" feels the need to refer to it as "a well-equipped religious monarchy", it suggests he's an outsider rather than a subject living under the Order's rule.

Another thing never answered: just what or who is the Oracle? Why is it protected by Order troops yet it helps you in killing the Order's leaders? Why does it have holographic monks praying in its chamber?

I feel that Strife could have a really good story if the writers chose to refine the plot. For example, revealing the dramatic origin of the Spectres/Entity, or communicating it more clearly so that it doesn't fall to us to actually think of interesting plot points.

[Krazov]

The world of Strife is probably not Earth, so its actual size is unknown. It might be that we’re on a small continent, or a bigger island (but big enough not to be called an island explicitly). The outside world might have been destroyed or underdeveloped, and so relatively small Tarnhill is a place to be. (Notice that there is not much of villages and places like that in game, which leaves some white space on a map of Strife’s world.) I like to think about it like it was kind of Wild West. Hanging out in parts with Order and Front fighting together would be in the interest of a wandering mercenary.

A small town with two groups fighting each other smells a little like Akira Kurosawa’s “Yojimbo.” At the beginning Strifeguy would not be the Front guy, but making a research. Harris quest fits to that narrative. Eventually Strifeguy becomes a part of Front, but is it because he is a fighter for freedom? I don’t think so—he takes money for all his assignments, till the end. He’s a psychopath looking mainly for his own goals, and gets tangled up in all this fight more by accident thant anything else.

And I would go for fractions between Sigil holders as well. Be it that Spectres was fighting each other before (cabin fever effect maybe), or human nature changed them—I don’t know which one gives more interesting backstory. But it has its potention. Order should not be monolythic. On the outside, maybe, but deep down inside there should be some kind of struggle. As always.

As for Macil, he could be unstable. Mostly good guy, but with his dark side, enhanced by owned part of Sigil, rising. And then, after defeating Oracle and acolytes factory, he snaps. It recalled me, in this very moment, movie “Supernova.” There was an alien artifact which was giving people power (making them younger, for instance) but at price of making them insane. Macil’s part of Sigil could work like that on his owner. Strifeguy could be indifferent to Sigil’s power (after all, he collected all parts without going crazy), and this leads to the question why? Was he addicted to something and overcame that (like James Spader’s character in mention movie), or maybe he’s just a tough guy (but that give rather boring story and flat character, with Strifeguy already being a psychopath—readers like someone who fell once, but then found its strenght). Macil, seeing that Strifeguy is not changing that having a part of Sigil, could try to use him to collect all the piece sans one, and then kill him, and have complete Sigil.

I always thought that Strife story is an interesting base for a movie or, as I think more recently, a TV series which doesn’t have to be contained in two hours.

[Da Werecat]

Krazov said:

A small town with two groups fighting each other smells a little like Akira Kurosawa’s “Yojimbo.” At the beginning Strifeguy would not be the Front guy, but making a research. Harris quest fits to that narrative. Eventually Strifeguy becomes a part of Front, but is it because he is a fighter for freedom? I don’t think so—he takes money for all his assignments, till the end. He’s a psychopath looking mainly for his own goals, and gets tangled up in all this fight more by accident thant anything else.

Something like that would certainly be more interesting than what we ended up with: "be good or die". The game teases you with opportunities, but you quickly realize that most of them are fake.

[Krazov]

Yes, but—

Strife was built upon Doom’s engine, and they achieved really interesting product. Sure, all those multipaths are rather symbolic but still, you can finish game with at least three endings (in which Blackbird is Entity’s spy, or Strifeguy’s love interest—it would be interesting to try to explain it with one theory).

And for the main cause of this thread it brings rather secondary meaning—in a novelization there will be only one version of everything.

I was thinking more after posting, and here is what I came to. I mentioned Blackbird. I thought that she could be crippled somehow, that’s why she only the voice. Or might be hiding because otherwise The Order would take her, like all the other women. (Or she could be a trans chick and be of no use to The Order.) But that’s about her backstory. In story she could be a comic companion to the main character. This way Strifeguy would be the unpleasant one (remember Blackbird’s reaction to cutting off a hand?), and she could bring a sense of humour. Together they would be action/commenting duo. Think of “Neuromancer” with Case and Molly—perhaps some parts could be narrated by Blackbird? Maybe all? (Personally I’d rather not but it’s not me who’s gonna write it after all.)

I wouldn’t make Entity almighty and omnipotent. This gives dynamics to the story. You see, the small characters like governor, prison warden, or judge all could actually believe in Order, not be controlled by some nano virus (BTW, I like that theory which also explaines castles and new technology). Governor playing on both sides—things like that are suddenly more possible. And so the titular strife becomes a thing between a bunch of people, only supported by alien technology possibilities.

[Da Werecat]

Krazov said:

(in which Blackbird is Entity’s spy, or Strifeguy’s love interest—it would be interesting to try to explain it with one theory)

Well, good luck with that. :)

[Krazov]

Something like a temporary overtaking her psyche by Entity, and returning her to Strifeguy once it dissolves sounds plausible. But I don’t feel it necessary. Non-entity Blackbird is enough for me.

[Havoc Crow]

Krazov said:

Something like a temporary overtaking her psyche by Entity, and returning her to Strifeguy once it dissolves sounds plausible. But I don’t feel it necessary. Non-entity Blackbird is enough for me.

If I'm not mistaken, in the "bittersweet" ending (where Blackbird turns out to be Entity), the ending narration is still being narrated in Blackbird's voice. If you try to read too much into it, it indeed appears like she's still herself and human after the end of the game. (Of course it doesn't need to mean anything--maybe they recorded that ending narration before they decided that this particular story path would end with Blackbird's betrayal.)

[Krazov]

Another point of interest: technical singularity. Depending on when it actually happened in context of action, Strifeguy could elaborate on how living changed. How new magic appeared to be only a technology or something like that. A thing to consider before writing: was he when the comet fell to Earth, or was he born later? Some Raymond Chandler or Dashiell Hammett (his “Red Harvest” inspired Kurosawa to write “Yojimbo”) flat voice over could be nice.

Do you think it would benefit a story if Strifeguy would reply to Blackbird? Or should he remain silent. Does their communication work both ways, or she sees Blackbird and he hears her? So many options.

[Gez]

If you attack Macil first, the Oracle uses his temporary reprieve to find out a way to neutralize you because you're a big threat to him, and with his spooky scary mystical powers finds out about BlackBird and gets the idea of leading the Entity's mind to her so she could become a double agent.

It was not enough to save the Oracle's bacon because you're just that badass, but it was still a nasty surprise, in the end.