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An Israeli Jeep has spun off the road in Israel, crashed into a tree and killed 9 Israeli soldiers, the Palestinians say they planted it

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fodders said:

An Israeli Jeep has spun off the road in Israel, crashed into a tree and killed 9 Israeli soldiers, the Palestinians say they planted it

So, because the Palestineans planted an innocent tree at a roadside, which Israelian soldiers just happen to crash into (because they suck at driving?), the Israelians would to take revenge on Palestineans? - scary thought if they do that.
Of course, Sharon could probably use it as an excuse for killing off more Palestineans, twisting the facts to make it look like the Palestineans set a trap for those Israelian soldiers.

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Not exactly joking, just indicating that IF the Israelians respond in such a manner, THEN I'd regard them as paranoid arseholes who deserve to be hung up in a tree with their heads pointing downward and shot.

And if Sharon manages to turn this into an excuse for killing more Palestineans then I'd love to rip his tongue out and plaster it to his office wall.

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fodders said:
I am saying that the Zionists still control Israel and they can murder and ignore all the rules of war and human and humane rights, and because America is up their ass, no one can do anything about it.
He is going to be told to start implementing the Mitchell agreement, and he is going to try to blacken Arafat's name with forged docs.

Fair enough. Arafat's name does not need to be blackened. He was and is a terrorist, and now says "he is ready to fight the war against terrorism." See latest unbiased news. Palestine is filled with militant groups blowing them self up in Israel. Today again.

I say, get the terrorist stopped first, and than negotiate a piece deal. ;)

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dsm said:

Not exactly joking, just indicating that IF the Israelians respond in such a manner, THEN I'd regard them as paranoid arseholes who deserve to be hung up in a tree with their heads pointing downward and shot.

And if Sharon manages to turn this into an excuse for killing more Palestineans then I'd love to rip his tongue out and plaster it to his office wall.

There was another piece full bomber blowing up in a pool hall, and today another one, and will be tomorrow.
When will you realize Palestine does not want a piece deal, it wants Israel out.
as for tongue - I say you are way out of line, in fact I would consider you a shit head, HUB type, anti semitic.

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Oh for fuck sakes Pheonix, saying you don't like Israel doesn't make you anti-semetic, it makes you anti-Israel. I'm getting really tired of all the PEOPLE in Israel crying "Anti-Semite! Anti-Semite!" everytime someone doesn't agree with them. Just cuz you're Jewish, that doesn't mean you're right. I hate terrorists and their cowardly ways, but Israel is even worse so the Terrorists are still only number 2 on my list of "People I want to see get their collective asses pasted."

:p

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It's terror acts from Palestine, then terrorist attacks from Israel, it's time Israel decided to put right what's wrong

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I say you are way out of line, in fact I would consider you a shit head, HUB type, anti semitic.

Ohh, don't hurt my feelings like that you big brute.
So I'm anti-semite because I think that Sharon is just as much a terrorist as those Palestinean suicide/murder bombers? Yeah, I feel sooo evil!
I'm closer to an anti-zionist than an anti-semite because at least I don't want to send jews to concentration camps - I just want those Israelians AND Palestineans to understand that they're getting nowhere with their mutual accusations of each other. And furthermore I also want to make it clear that I don't give a damn about all their accusations against eachother, because both sides are indoctrined.

But if any of the two sides begin to accuse other countries (including mine) for being "pro-Israeli" or "pro-Palestinean" then I go ballistic.

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You got that right Fodders, and more innocent people are going to die for no good reason at all other than the people with the guns are trying to prove who's got the bigger dicks...

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dsm said:
But if any of the two sides begin to accuse other countries (including mine) for being "pro-Israeli" or "pro-Palestinean" then I go ballistic.

Not sure where you live. If you live either in the US or the UK you are very much invlolved.

You are, based on your quotes, "pro-Palestine". I am "pro-Israel". Once I see an outcry for the innocent in Israel, I will change my attitude towards pro-Palestine commends. Right now it seems that the people of Palestine are the only victims - I think it is a one sided point of view.

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At least the Palestinian terrorist has the decency to blow himself up too, the Israeli terrorist sits in an armour plated tank and also shoots children that throw stones at it

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Phoenix said:

You are, based on your quotes, "pro-Palestine". I am "pro-Israel". Once I see an outcry for the innocent in Israel, I will change my attitude towards pro-Palestine commends. Right now it seems that the people of Palestine are the only victims - I think it is a one sided point of view.

I'm primarily criticizing Israel because of their choice of leader - a fucking murder who killed innocent Palestineans who had nothing to do with those suicide bombers and demolished their homes and why the fuck chose a leader who leads an aggressive policy against Palestinians? Everyone with a slight bit of brains would know that aggression solves nothing - Under Ehud Barak things appeared to be progressing, but nooo, they had to screw up the peace process by electing a terrorist.

Before that election, I had a hope that that fucking conflict would end sometime and I took no sides back then.
And whenever Israelis are asked why they elected such an aggressive politician, they reply something like: "Barak offered them more land than we own - the Palestineans apparently don't want peace, blah, blah"
Did Barak offer them their OWN country? Not afaik, and more land doesn't matter shit to most people in this world if they can't get the land that they consider as their own.
All the Palestineans want is to have their own land in peace - they might be a bit too demanding in some aspects, true, but the Israelians are only borrowing themselves further into a hopeless conflict with their current take if you ask me.

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The Jews even commit terrorist acts in America



WASHINGTON, D.C.—At a moment when the popular mind-set once again links the words "Arab" and "Islamic" with all things retrograde and threatening—including terrorism (cue the new Charlie Daniels anthem and revel in the poetry: "This ain't no rag, it's a flag/And we don't wear it on our heads. . . . /We're gonna hunt you down like a mad dog hound")—it came as a surprise to some that the latest malefactors accorded POW status in the "War on Terrorism" turned out to be Jewish.
Arrested and charged DEC 2001 with intriguing to do explosive little actions on a Culver City, California, mosque and the offices of Lebanese American U.S. Representative Darrell Issa, Jewish Defense League chief Irving David

Rubin and JDL member Earl Leslie Krugel were, according to FBI wiretap transcripts, anything but circumspect about their devices and desires: Though Rubin lamented the wanting state of technology in the JDL's possession (not good enough to "blow up an entire building"), Krugel was adamant that "Arabs need a wake-up call" and that the JDL needs to do something to one of their "filthy mosques"—which may explain the five pounds of gunpowder and pipe-bomb matériel found at his house. "If the people responsible for September 11 are the quintessence of evil genius, these guys are at the Keystone Kops end of the spectrum," says Hussein Ibish, communications director for the American Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee. "The only reassuring thing about them is their absolute ineptitude and the fact that they were arrested."

Mainstream Jewish groups were quick to condemn the JDL as well: Characterizing the activities of the organization—founded in 1968 by Brooklyn's own, now deceased Rabbi Meir Kahane—as "contemptible," the Anti-Defamation League's regional director issued a statement "abhor[ing] and condemn[ing] the potential terrorist plot." The American Jewish Committee said it "categorically condemns in the strongest possible terms the alleged JDL plot," and went so far as to follow up with a personal letter to Republican representative Issa, decrying "such wanton lawlessness," which is "so clearly contrary to the fundamental tenets of our faith, and to the basic principles of justice and liberty that brought our parents and grandparents to America's shores and that form the bedrock of our national values."

Yet some observers of the current Middle East crisis see more than a bit of disingenuousness and historical irony here. While both the ADL and the AJC have condemned the JDL, they've unequivocally backed Israeli prime minister Ariel Sharon's indiscriminate use of force against the Palestinians and the cutting of ties with Palestinian Authority president Yasir Arafat—neither of which is universally seen as a particularly constructive way to slow the cycles of violence across Israel and the Occupied Territories.

But what's even more vexing to others is the apparent inability or unwillingness to discern similarities between the current Palestinian milieu and Israeli operations of 50-plus years ago, which secured statehood from colonialist occupiers—as well as similarities between violent, internecine struggles among disparate underground groups. "It's peculiar, it's paradoxical, that Sharon and Likud should be the ones who are trying to equate any authentic resistance in Palestine with some of the terrorist activities, as terrorism in Israel really started with Begin and Shamir and later Sharon," says Clovis Maksoud, the former Arab League ambassador to the United Nations. "It's a very valid question as to why they see no similarities between themselves under the British and the Palestinians under their occupation." Especially, he adds, as the Israeli government supports museums that honor assassins and terrorists—including one located on a street named for a terrorist.

The thoroughfare in question runs between Florentine and Emeq-Yisrael, and bears the name Stern Street—in honor of Avraham Stern, a 1920s Zionist and charter member of the Haganah, then a loose-knit Jewish militia organized as a self-defense mechanism against Arab violence. Finding the Haganah insufficiently proactive in realizing the goal of a Jewish state that would encompass "both sides of the River Jordan," erstwhile Mussolini follower and early-day ultra-nationalist Ze'ev Jabotinsky broke with the militia and formed the Irgun, which devoted itself to terrorist operations against the British. Once an enthusiastic Irgunist, Stern was appalled when the Irgun decided to make common cause with the British against the Nazis, and created the even more underground and more violent Lehi (Lohamei Herut Yisrael, or Fighters for the Freedom of Israel), also known as the Stern Gang, which held there was no greater threat to the Jews of Palestine than the mandate's British administrators.

To this end, Stern actually made overtures to the Axis powers; September 1940 found him in dialogue with an emissary from Il Duce in Jerusalem, and in January 1941 he dispatched an agent to Vichy-controlled Beirut with instructions to convey a letter to representatives of the Reich. In it, Stern held that the "establishment of the historical Jewish state on a national and totalitarian basis, and bound by a treaty with the German Reich, would be in the interest of a maintained and strengthened future German position of power in the Near East. Proceeding from these considerations, [the Lehi] in Palestine, under the condition [that] the above-mentioned national aspirations of the Israeli freedom movement are recognized on the side of the German Reich, offers to actively take part in the war on Germany's side."

The Germans declined to take Stern up on the offer, but Stern held out hope as his organization continued to engage in terrorism against the British. After Stern died in a shoot-out with British police in 1942, his mantle was picked up by future Israeli prime minister Yitzhak Shamir. Still, the Israeli underground focused on the British as the greatest of all evils, and on November 6, 1944, Lord Moyne, the British minister for Middle East affairs, was assassinated in Cairo by Eliyahu Beit-Tzuri and Eliyahu Hakim—both members of the Lehi, who were later arrested, convicted, and hanged. After the state of Israel was established, the Lehi, displeased with what it considered the too pro-Arab views of the Swedish UN-appointed mediator for Palestine, assassinated him; on September 17, 1948, Count Folke Bernadotte—who, as a neutral diplomat in World War II, had saved thousands of Jews from Nazi death camps—was shot and killed by Lehi assassins, along with French colonel Andre Serot, the senior UN military observer, whose wife's life had been saved by Bernadotte.

The Bernadotte assassination was so outrageous that the nascent government of David Ben-Gurion had little problem disbanding the Lehi (though none of the assassins were ever brought to justice). Yet, despite this history of terror, the Israeli Ministry of Defense underwrites museums commemorating the Stern Gang and the Irgun—which, under Menachem Begin, bombed the British headquarters at the King David Hotel in 1946, leaving 90 dead and 45 wounded (with 15 Jews among the casualties). Like Lehi, it wasn't until 1948 that the Irgun was forced out of existence, after its arms-transport ship, the Altalena, was blown up by the provisional Israeli government—a point analysts like Ibish say bears remembering.

"There are streets named after the assassins of Moyne and Bernadotte. They are historical figures not disavowed by the rhetoric of the state of Israel, nor is there any reflection on the fact that two terrorist leaders later became distinguished leaders of the republic," Ibish says. "And now people are saying that Arafat must have his Altalena." Ibish adds that Israel's first prime minister, David Ben-Gurion, "never moved against the Irgun and the Stern Gang until after the state was established and secured, which is definitely not true in the case of the Palestinian Authority. Essentially, the Israelis are asking the Palestinians to do something they themselves refused to do."

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Israel can expect Palestinian attacks soon, and who could blame them?
The Israeli parliament today ruled that the "Creation of a Palestinian state will not and never will be, allowed"
The Palestinians have to protect the occupying settlements in Gaza etc, or face bombing, as most Palestinians now facing a lifetime of occupation, humiliation and gross human rights infringements against them for the rest of their, and their childrens lives" some will, no doubt, take military action

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I'm a "pro-wrestler". No, but seriously, I live in America and I am affected by all these going-ons. My dad lost his job because of the Sept. 11 thing, and it's hard to find another in his field. I may have to move out of my house because we won't be able to pay and you know what? I'D FUCKING COMMIT SUICIDE IF THAT HAPPENED! I'm so perfectly happy living where I'm living, it's fucking crazy. It's boring sometimes, but it's got what I need. So do I have a right to be angry? I'd say so, since the events could possible ruin my life. Still, I'm not against any one country. I just wish we could all get along. It's not going to happen, but hey, I can always hope. As I always say. it's no one partuicular person's fault. Things happen over time. Both sides and neither side is to blame. Something one person might have said or could have said but didn't, could have affected everything. Maybe a a man could have seen the great things in life through a nice-looking plant and have been inspired to stop this madness. There's been infinite possibilities, and things just fall the way they fall. No one's to blame, not one side nor the other.

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fodders said:

Israel can expect Palestinian attacks soon, and who could blame them?
The Israeli parliament today ruled that the "Creation of a Palestinian state will not and never will be, allowed"
The Palestinians have to protect the occupying settlements in Gaza etc, or face bombing, as most Palestinians now facing a lifetinme of occupation, humiliation and gross human rights infringements against them for the rest of their, and their childrens lives" some will, no doubt, take military action

:( They voted for it. And now, yes, even I can no longer support them. To make 'war' on terrorism is one thing to deny their livelihood is inhumane.

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Phoenix said:

:( They voted for it. And now, yes, even I can no longer support them. To make 'war' on terrorism is one thing to deny their livelihood is inhumane.


:) They voted for it. Although it wansn't the parliament, but just the Likud party, maybe there still is a chance for Israel.

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Pheonix, you're an ass. You support the Israelis but damn the Canadian natives. It's the SAME FUCKING THING, different nation. I'm not native, but I am Canadian, so I know enough of that history. Anyway, personally, I say fuck 'em all. Turn the whole place into a wasteland with some very powerful conventional weapons. The Zionist extremists with their Seyerat Matkal and Mossad are no better than the Hamas. And Sharon IS no better than Adolf fucking Hitler. But neither is Arafat. I wouldn't be surprised to see death camps set up in the near future.

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Lots of people win in a war. Just no one nation has profited recently because there's been no conquest of territory for either US or any other powerful western nation. That's why people say that.

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pilottobombadier said:

Pheonix, you're an ass. You support the Israelis but damn the Canadian natives. It's the SAME FUCKING THING, different nation. I'm not native, but I am Canadian, so I know enough of that history. Anyway, personally, I say fuck 'em all. Turn the whole place into a wasteland with some very powerful conventional weapons. The Zionist extremists with their Seyerat Matkal and Mossad are no better than the Hamas. And Sharon IS no better than Adolf fucking Hitler. But neither is Arafat. I wouldn't be surprised to see death camps set up in the near future.


LOL

Palestina and the First Nations never had a country. What da fuck are you drinking?

I support Canada for my own selfish reasons and did support Israel out of humanitarian reasons. At least I do make choices. With you it seems, you want to blow up the hole planet to have piece. You are either on something or you are something. Either way something is the key word here.

Also it's Phoenix not Pheonix! ;)

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