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Dubh

The Big Question: Release Date?

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Zaldron said:

Sigh, again.

The engine is 100% new. Instead of starting from scratch, they mantained compatibility with Q3A's subsystems, so the engine worked from the very beginning of the project. As time goes by, each Q3A subsystem is ditched and replaced for Doom's. We know the rendering code is there, but what about the Sound code for example?

What we saw in the QuakeCon footage was probably using Q3A's sound system. IF there was sound, of course :)


That's exactly what I meant.

By the way the Q2 engine was not entirely new. It had some Q1 code in it.

It seems to me that some find it bad to maintain certain pieces of earlier engines. IMHO it's ok to keep something that has worked good for previous engines.

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It seems to me that some find it bad to maintain certain pieces of earlier engines. IMHO it's ok to keep something that has worked good for previous engines


Carmack is replacing each part of the Q3 engine with each corresponding part of the Doom 3 engine as a testbed. That way he knows what works, and what doesn't.

In the end, the code will be totally new as Zaldron pointed out.

I was just saying that I didn't want it to be a rehashed Q3 engine, that the code should be totally new, because I am fed up with many of the Q3 engined games that feel like Q3.

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Amanichen said:

Remember that the Q3 engine is a rehashed Q2 engine, and the Q2 engine was built from the ground up. I ***seriously*** doubt that Carmack would continue using an engine that has it's roots two games ago.

wrong. the QUAKE 2 engine is a rehash of the quake 1, the q3 engine is almost entirely new

but it doesnt matter anyway since this has always been planned to be a new engine... you cant go from bsp to portal halfway.

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Xian said:

the QUAKE 2 engine is a rehash of the quake 1, the q3 engine is almost entirely new


You're right, Quake 2 didn't add all that much to Quake. Transparant water, coloured lights etc. were already in glQuake, although very few maps used the new features.

Saying that Quake3 was 'almost entirely new' is a bit weird though. It just added a few important features to Q2, including the over-hyped curves and the shader architecture. The shaders are the most important addition IMO, and they became possible because id decided to go hardware-only. That meant 24 and 32-bit art, which opened up a whole range of possibilities.

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My first impression on Q3A when I saw the first screenshots with characters in them was that it was just Quake 2 with better skin textures - there didn't seem to be much change in polycount, although I will admit that when I finally got to see more character models, I did see that the polycount had been raised slightly, however, it wasn't as evident as with Quake 2.
Quake 2 was first to have 'successful' models imo - Quake1's were all too pointy and ugly with its characters' box-shaped heads. Q3A only made little improvement on Q2 in regards to character models imo.

When I look at the Macworld video screens now, I see that similarly, the polycount in "Doom 3" ain't much better than in Q3A - BUT the special trick (with id using two models for one character - one high-poly for lighting feedback and one low-poly for the actual model) id are using and with the realistic lighting, the models look so much better that you hardly worry about the models having pointy surfaces.

After the Doom engine, I expect id to be able to get rid of them annoying pointy surfaces, which I've basically wanted them to get rid of since I saw the first screenshots with character models of Quake1.

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The big problem with Quake's models is that the animations weren't interpolated. So you're running glQuake at a hojillion frames per second, everything's running smooth but the monsters' movement is all jerky. This wasn't really an issue when software Quake first came out, and hit 10-15fps on 486 machines with 8Mb RAM, but now it clearly is.

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FlatHead said:

The big problem with Quake's models is that the animations weren't interpolated.

Some QW ports use interpolation now. It looks quite good too.

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Here is what would be wise:

Test release date - A few weeks before the release of Unreal 2.

Full Game Release - A day or two right after Unreal 2.



That way it gives the fans what they want (a new game real quick), and it whets people's whistle before doom3's major competitor is released. And then you release the game right after U2 and turn it into old history, not giving people a chance to remember it long enough before the next game comes out (which seriously cripples further expansion of the unreal fanbase and boosts doom's).


Seriously, if they can get doom3 out any faster, the better the outcome (if later, then it'd better have a dam good reason like being on console and heavily marketed in conjunction with computer). Also, if they come out with an expansion pack (like the reckoning or ground zero was for quake2) soon after the release date, it'll make it just that much sweeter for iD software.

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sirgalahadwizar said:

Here is what would be wise:

Test release date - A few weeks before the release of Unreal 2.

Full Game Release - A day or two right after Unreal 2.


Why? I see things that way:

Test release date - A few weeks before the Unreal 2's Test.

Full Game Release - A mounth after Unreal 2.

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I don't hope they release anything , neither test nor full release BEFORE a while after Unreal 2 - I don't want a new Unreal vs. id's latest release situation.
Basically I want Unreal 2 released as soon as possible and then "Doom 3" should take three months extra to go gold at the very least - at the fuckin' very least.

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FlatHead said:

Doomsday : 10th December 2003

blah. when i say it, it gets post helled, but it's ok for you to say it.

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FlatHead said:

Saying that Quake3 was 'almost entirely new' is a bit weird though. It just added a few important features to Q2, including the over-hyped curves and the shader architecture. The shaders are the most important addition IMO, and they became possible because id decided to go hardware-only. That meant 24 and 32-bit art, which opened up a whole range of possibilities.

Im not going by what features were supported, im going by WAHT ACTUALLY HAPPENED in making the engine. Carmack said it himself that quake 2 was only a hackup modified GlQuake+Quakeworld. He also said that quake 3 only used some basic code from quake 2, and was moslty new

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deathwarrior said:

blah. when i say it, it gets post helled, but it's ok for you to say it.


Why the fuck would anyone get posthelled for saying that ? I don't get it.

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FlatHead said:

Why the fuck would anyone get posthelled for saying that ? I don't get it.

because it's been said soo many times.

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Geez. You guys don't have much confidence in iD :P

Test release: E3-2002
DOOMsday: December 2002

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Shaviro said:

Geez. You guys don't have much confidence in iD :P

Test release: E3-2002
DOOMsday: December 2002

You want them to RUSH the game?
Would you rush RTC-3057?
Maonth, how long have you and your boys been working on 3057, both before and after the merge? And how long do you estimate before it would be released?

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deathwarrior said:

blah. when i say it, it gets post helled, but it's ok for you to say it.

Double standard, don't knock it.

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dsm said:

You want them to RUSH the game?
Would you rush RTC-3057?
Maonth, how long have you and your boys been working on 3057, both before and after the merge? And how long do you estimate before it would be released?


They've been working on it for ages. They get paid, so they work on it every day. We don't work on 3057 every day.

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Yeah but "Doom 3" is at least a thousand times more complex than RTC-3057, and most of the other id employees have a life next to their work unlike JC.
And no, they have not been working on it for ages - only a little more than two years, that's not ages.
At least work on Doom seems to be progressing - unlike with Duke4ever, now THERE'S a game which has been under development for ages.

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you can only assume it's progressing, there's no real way of proving that though.

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I wouldn't mind if the release ain't until late 2004, but I'll be a bit pissed if it isn't released until 2006!

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