Half Empty or Half Full? Is it a Test or a Sign?

[geo]

Lately I have been wondering if things are tests or signs. Let's take for instance the woman who has had 5 houses blow down via tornadoes, are they tests to see how she perseveres or signs that she should move? I remember years ago I had an argument with a female friend about her staying with a guy that cheated on her. She said its a test of her love. Does she love him more than the hurt he brought her and her answer was yes. Meanwhile, I told her no its a sign that you shouldn't be together. Now they're married with 2 kids and he never cheated again. 10 years later, looks like I was wrong.

I suppose this is one of those things that falls into a glass half full or empty sort of thing.

Tests or signs. Maybe some things are tests if you see the sign or not.

How do you see things?

[Ribbiks]

As you can see, the Life Line is divided into two polar extremes. Fear and love.

[SandGator]

ONLY A SITH DEALS IN ABSOLUTES

[DoomUK]

geo said:

How do you see things?

Misfortune and hardship are, by definition, testing. And if you make certain mistakes in life, the repercussions are a "sign" that you should avoid making them in the future. This is a non-issue.

Whether these things are orchestrated by some sort of cosmic mastermind - which gives a damn whether we pass or fail its tests or pay heed to its signs - is another matter. I say no. I also dispute whether everything in life boils down to X or Y questions, which Donnie Darko rightfully became angered over when presented with the "Fear and Love" false dilemma. Where do trust, taking risks and learning from experience fit into all of this?

[Bucket]

Bad shit happens for no reason at all.

[Enjay]

geo said:

Let's take for instance the woman who has had 5 houses blow down via tornadoes, are they tests to see how she perseveres or signs that she should move?

Both options imply some sort of intelligence behind the test/sign. What if there is none and it's just as Bucket said?

[stewboy]

I don't think a 'sign' necessarily implies intelligence behind it. Like, when there are grey clouds gathering overhead, that's a sign that there'll be a good chance of rain, maybe. With the woman whose house kept getting hit by tornadoes over and over (I assume you mean they were all in the same location) that might be a sign that it's not the best place to build a house. Not an 'intelligent' sign, but still a sign. I think the term is valid in these situations.

[fraggle]

Neither. You're presenting a choice between two magical delusions. I reject both.

geo said:

Lately I have been wondering if things are tests or signs. Let's take for instance the woman who has had 5 houses blow down via tornadoes, are they tests to see how she perseveres or signs that she should move?

No. Natural disasters are events things that occur - often tragic ones, but they are not caused by humans. They don't have some higher "purpose" to teach us something or send us a "sign". The universe is something that objectively exists and we're only a very tiny part of it: it's quite presumptuous to assume that these things happen for our benefit.

I remember years ago I had an argument with a female friend about her staying with a guy that cheated on her. She said its a test of her love. Does she love him more than the hurt he brought her and her answer was yes.

Uh, no. It's not a "test of her love". She just made a conscious effort to stick with an asshole. I really don't get this kind of fairy tale view of life. Sounds like she's watched too many Hollywood romance movies.

Meanwhile, I told her no its a sign that you shouldn't be together. Now they're married with 2 kids and he never cheated again. 10 years later, looks like I was wrong.

It's evidence she shouldn't stick with him, but it's not a "sign" in any kind of mystical sense like you seem to be using. That said, the advice you gave wasn't wrong: it was good advice. If he's cheated once, he'll probably do it again. When you say "he never cheated again" what you really mean is "he never cheated again as far as she knows" or "he hasn't cheated again yet". Then again, maybe he just grew up and decided to start taking things more seriously. But in general, if that's the case then it's because she got lucky, not because you were wrong.

[schwerpunk]

I'm guilty of labeling certain challenges as 'tests,' but that's just a conscious decision to reframe a bad situation as a learning experience. This practice can be good (if the situation can be overcome, or is unavoidable (may as well just suck it up and deal in that case)), or it can be bad (if the situation is avoidable, or a source of needless strife (that which does not kill one does not always leave one stronger)). There are degrees between these two, and how one frames a situation will be determined by one's prior experience.

P.S. No, I do not believe there are real (that is, consciously administered for our benefit) 'tests' or 'signs.'
P.P.S. Although if you're bleeding from the rectum, you might want to take that as a sign from your body that you should go to the doctor's instead of 'dealing' with it yourself.
P.P.P.S. Pardon my abuse of parentheticals and post script.

[geo]

Ribbiks said:

As you can see, the Life Line is divided into two polar extremes. Fear and love.

LOL yeah awesome reference. Personally I feel that love is all. Fear is love for yourself and love for your own well being.

>>> Here's another thing that I'll throw out for you all. Is selflessness really a person that wants to be loved so much they'll do something for someone else selflessly or is it they have so much to give they want to give / do things for others selflessly?

[schwerpunk]

I'm not entirely sure what you're referring to there, but it sounds like you're talking about the source of altruism.

[EDIT: Durr, cut out the middle because I misunderstood your post.]

tl;dr altruism is basically an egotistical act, but done for a larger social unit, rather than the individual themselves. Altruistic acts are done to bring about consequences we deem to be good. /IMHO

[Enjay]

stewboy said:

I don't think a 'sign' necessarily implies intelligence behind it.

I think the way the question was phrased - intentionally or not - does imply some sort of steering intelligence. But no, of course not all signs necessarily imply intelligence.

[Kontra Kommando]

Bucket said:

Bad shit happens for no reason at all.

This.

[Suitepee]

5 houses blown down by tornadoes? I'm guessing the woman lives in that part of America dubbed "Tornado Alley", in which case she knew what to possibly expect if she wanted to live there for long periods of time.

I do believe there are "signs" that we can't quite explain though, fate and all that.