Remaking Doom 3 levels for vanilla Doom 1 - COMMUNITY PROJECT - Pick maps now!

[scifista42]

New thread is here.

In middle March, I was suffering the creative block again, unable to think off new layouts for my maps. And I got an idea. After an experience with the Switcheroom project, I learned how enjoyable it is to plagiate eh I wanted to say, to be recreating already made and well designed layouts, so this part of mapping don't annoy me, the lazy man, anymore. I was searching for new layouts to pla... recreate and I came with this:



What if Doom 3 levels were released as an expansion pack for The Ultimate Doom?

UPDATED 1.7.2013 - Let the direction change a bit!

COMMUNITY PROJECT
To be honest, I have done only a little progress over past months. Although I still think the basic idea is good, I'm afraid it might never be finished if all the work was on me - because, I know myself :).
Anyway my idea is somehow very specific and therefore it wouldn't be easy to establish this a community project. I already outlined the style, the specific maps/mapnames and such, for myself. So I tried to set up the rules to attract people to join and satisfy my initial vision at the same time. Rules are below the maplist.

PROJECT GOAL
To have fun while recreating Doom 3 levels, and mainly,
to prove that Doom 3 layouts actually have a potential for being good classic Doom maps.


MAPLIST

Each map already has a D3 model map - count with that when you pick up a map!

 (E1 requirements: Barons first in E1M6 in place of Vagary, Plasmagun in E1M6, Cacos no earlier than in E1M7,
 Chainsaw in E1M8, RL only secret, as it isn't in D3 here)
E1M1 - based on D3 Level1 (Mars City)         - scifista42
E1M2 - based on D3 Level2 (M. C. Underground) - scifista42
E1M3 - based on D3 Level3 (Mars City 2)       - scifista42
E1M4 - based on D3 Level4 (Administration)    - scifista42
E1M5 - based on D3 Level5 (Alpha Labs 1)      - scifista42
E1M6 - based on D3 Level8 (Alpha Labs 4)      - 
E1M7 - based on D3 Level9 (Enpro Plant)       - 
E1M8 - based on D3 Level10 (Comm. Transfer)   - 
E1M9 - based on D3 Alpha levels ;)            - scifista42

 (E2 requirements: Cacos right in E2M1, RL and PG first in E2M2, Barons first in E2M3 in place of mancubuses,
 BFG only secret and on places like in D3, Cyberdemon as final boss)
E2M1 - based on D3 Level11 (Communications)                  -
E2M2 - based on D3 Level12 (Monorail Skybridge)              -
E2M3 - based on D3 Level13 (Recycling)                       -
E2M4 - based on D3 Level15 (Delta Labs 1)                    -
E2M5 - based on D3 Level16 (Delta Labs 2a)                   -
E2M6 - based on D3 Level17 (Delta Labs 2b)                   - 
E2M7 - based on D3 Level18 (Delta Labs 3 - those teleports)  - 
E2M8 - based on D3 Level19 (Delta 4) + Guardian battle alone - 
E2M9 - SECRET LEVEL OF WHATEVER SATIRE YOU WANT              -

 (E3 requirements: Barons right from E3M1, BFG in E3M3, E3M3 has a boss - Cyb or Spid,
 later levels may contain Masterminds, E3M7 has a Cyberdemon fight, E3M8 is epic)
E3M1 - based on D3 Level21 (Delta Complex)        -
E3M2 - based on D3 Level22 (CPU)                  -
E3M3 - based on D3 Level23 (CPU Boss)             -
E3M4 - based on D3 Level24 (Site 3)               -
E3M5 - based on D3 Level25 (Caverns 1)            -
E3M6 - based on D3 Level26 (Caverns 2)            - 
E3M7 - based on D3 Level27 (wait, not the end?)   - 
E3M8 - based on D3 Hell and I take it, HAHAHAHAHA - scifista42
E3M9 - SECRET LEVEL OF WHATEVER SATIRE YOU WANT   -

*The maplist doesn't contain some maps for the sake of having each episode filled and have a normal progression.
**Doom3 : RoE may become an Episode 4, but let's start lower-budget.

Aren't you satisfied with the maplist? It is quite possible, since I mentioned plenty of strange sounding rules. If so, feel free to discuss.

PROJECT RULES

• Pick a map from Doom 3 and recreate it for Doom engine in the pace of Doom 1 game. But you can't do it anyhow you want! Read further.
  
• Your map MUST stay as loyal to the original D3 map's layout as possible. See the maps I already made. The layouts are in fact totally the same as their D3 counterparts (the rooms connects in the same order), but you won't immediately notice that because of texturing and pace, and that's the point!
  
• NEVER ADD AREAS. Not even secrets. You are allowed to substract less remarkable areas from the original layout, intersect them slightly differently than in original, but never add.
  
• You are allowed to modify the layout ONLY for one reason - for making the map more nonlinear.
  
• You don't have to stay so close to the originals in aspect of enemy and ammo placement. In general - RAISE monstercounts and focus on action! This is D1 pace, NOT D3 pace!
  
• Don't follow Doom 1 stereotypes like no Lost Souls / Plasmaguns in E1, hellish textures in E3 etc. - NO! Use whichever textures / items that fit. This is not just another D1 replacement megawad.
  
• IMPORTANT DIFFICULTIES - BALANCE HMP LIKE IF IT WAS UV! I made a change to difficulties! Doom 3 kinda lacked real difficulty, and I want to improve it in this project. HNTR will become HMP, HMP will become UV, and UV... should contain much more monsters and additional teleport traps, as well as very tightly balanced ammo. See my maps in the demo, that's how I imagine it.
  
• You are TOTALLY ALLOWED to modify gameplay for the sake of fun and joy. Feel free to remove darkness, spice up monster encounters... Just nothing with the layout!
  
• Go more abstract. Less orthogonal. Don't rely on detail. DON'T RELY ON IT!
  
• Vanilla compatibility, Doom 1 format, UD as IWAD.
  
• Do NOT include new textures other that those included in the demo or those that are direct simple edits/recolors of existing D1 textures, preferably made by yourself. The point of this rule is trying to pretend that this is a real expansion pack released by "the lazy id" in 1996 or so. In addition, I don't want this to become a texturefest, the idea is somewhere else.
  
• Don't use hellish and blood/nuke-spilling animated textures, their animation will be changed! Still working on that.
  
• You are ADVISED to noclip through D3 maps and draw their layouts on paper before you start mapping. You can also ask me to do so for you, as I don't mind it. You can use these layouts I already made: (WARNING: BIG IMAGES)

http://i.imgur.com/pxsosMf.jpg,http://i.imgur.com/BOhGkMS.jpg,http://i.imgur.com/3pHqvOH.jpg,http://i.imgur.com/zlibMBM.jpg,
http://i.imgur.com/HqJshEU.jpg,http://i.imgur.com/DWRUmqu.jpg,http://i.imgur.com/YDUlhy9.jpg

Aren't you satisfied with the rules? It is quite possible, since this is the first time I've made rules for others. If so, feel free to discuss.



And now to show I've already done something, here are screenshots and download link for a demo I made months ago, when this wasn't supposed to become a community project.

• E1M1: WELCOME TO MARS

• E1M2: TECH SECTION

DOWNLOAD THE DEMO (REUPLOADED ON JULY 1st)
http://speedy.sh/5v528/doom3udemo.zip


Looking forward for your cooperation! Even though only four people voted for participation, I hope I'll get more people involved.

[Walter confetti]

looks nice...

[Obsidian]

It's certainly a nice idea, but exactly how close is your project going to get to Doom 3? Reskinned monsters, new monsters, new weapons? If you need new monsters rigged up in DeHackEd I can probably help out. :) I recall Vader putting up some unfinished sprites for a Doom 3 style Demon, and you can find a Doom 3 Hell Knight sprite set in CIF3, of all places.

On the subject of screenshots, the STAR textures don't really scream Doom 3 to me: I'd probably replace them myself, but that could be just my opinion. :P

[Tristan]

Either set brightness of every sector to either 16 or 0 and THEN you've got it.


In all seriousness though, it's hard to see much resemblance to the originals, in my eyes, except for the top left screenshot of E1M2.
Granted, you do say in the OP you aren't trying to necessarily make look-a-likes, but then you've got the issue of making this a vanilla project. I just have the feeling that if this continues as a vanilla project, at least one of the maps will suffer for it, and it could be avoided if it was done in perhaps Boom (or even maybe [G]ZDoom) format.

[Suitepee]

Not really feeling all that much interest in this idea, sorry scifista42. Best of luck in the project though!

[scifista42]

No no no, you missed the point, Obsidian and Eris. I'm NOT trying to recreate Doom 3 so you'll feel you play Doom 3. I don't want my maps to scream "Doom 3!", at least not to scream "Doom 3! dark! straightforward! moody! scary! and such". I just take the map layout and tweak it, like we were doing in Switcheroom, but I try to stay close. And I explicitly confess I do it because the layouts of D3 maps are pretty good and I use them because it's easier and more attractive for me than to think off completely new layouts from scratch. I changed the project title to make it more obvious and also because the former name has been already taken, which I didn't take into account earlier and sorry to pablogener again.

Thanks for all your comments anyway :)

Also Obsidian, if you know how to replace automap texts and intermission texts so they change even in vanilla, I'd be very grateful for your help. You know, simple .deh patch or DEHACKED lump aren't enough for that, I've been told that I need to use dehacked.exe to generate a hacked version of Doom exe, at least I understood that that way.

[Fernito]

I think I like this idea :)

If you change your mind, please let me know. I'd love to contribute mapping for this project.

[Obsidian]

Hmm...okay. It just seems to me that the stock Doom monster designs might look a little out of place. Besides, there's nothing wrong with a few new monsters, is there? :P I like making DeHackEd monsters.

scifista42 said:

Also Obsidian, if you know how to replace automap texts and intermission texts so they change even in vanilla, I'd be very grateful for your help. You know, simple .deh patch or DEHACKED lump aren't enough for that, I've been told that I need to use dehacked.exe to generate a hacked version of Doom exe, at least I understood that that way.

I guess I could help with that. PM me when you need your patch. :P

[pablogener]

I just want to say that I like this project a lot, but it is in no way related to mine. It's just the name... but it really isn't anything like what I'm doing. I'm going more for a 'realistic' approach, trying to get as close as I can to the actual DooM 3 experience. I'm downlading scifista's wad and will try it and coment on it very soon.
cheers!

[scifista42]

Hi. I'm replying to inform you that this project is not dead. True, I didn't move forward with mapping at all. But I made a few (*two*) more drawings of original Doom 3 maps. And I feel I need to show something. So I show them :) (for those who are interested)

These are drawings I made by noclipping through D3 maps, so these are the real D3 maps, not layouts of my maps.

WARNING: BIG IMAGES
http://i.imgur.com/pxsosMf.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/BOhGkMS.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/3pHqvOH.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/zlibMBM.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/HqJshEU.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/DWRUmqu.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/YDUlhy9.jpg

At least you can use them to navigate through D3 maps ;)

I will make my layouts only based on these drawings. For example, here is comparison of my drawing of the second level of Doom 3 and of a map I made based on that drawing:

Drawing: http://i.imgur.com/BOhGkMS.jpg
Map: http://i.imgur.com/xXSP0f7.jpg
Although it may not be obvious, the rooms are attached to each other in exact same order, only some angles are different.

[Jaws In Space]

That's interesting, this is the first time I've seen Doom 3 maps from a top down perspective. After doing a quick google search I can't seem to find other images like them. The only Doom 3 maps I could find with a top down perspective are from Classic Doom for Doom 3. I find it had to believe that you would be the first person to do this, does anyone know where I could find some more images like this?

[scifista42]

I also find it hard to believe, but if really doesn't exist any, I'll make them :)

[punnyone]

http://web.archive.org/web/20100219093758/http://ucguides.savagehelp.com/Doom3/maps.htm

Here's a mirror from the, apparently defunct Upsetchaps guide page which has doom 3 overhead maps. There's also ones for Resurrection of Evil on there.

The only downside is map 10 (Comm Transfer) is incomplete and only the first area of the map, and a few maps such as Hell are not fully visible due to skyboxes getting in the way of parts of the maps.

[Squadallah]

Hi, what kind of music do you need? In midi or mp3/Ogg etc?
I would be ok to help you on some tracks if needed.

Here is a link to some stuff I did :
https://soundcloud.com/galiyuka

[DooM_RO]

This is great but the maps could benefit from improved detailing. Also, why not make this a community project? This seems deceptively easy.

[scifista42]

pizzabob18 said:

http://web.archive.org/web/20100219093758/http://ucguides.savagehelp.com/Doom3/maps.htm

Thanks for sharing that! Looking at pictures of those maps I already redrawed, I pretty much recognize them :) I might use them to save some work.

Squadallah said:

Hi, what kind of music do you need? In midi or mp3/Ogg etc?
I would be ok to help you on some tracks if needed.

So if I understand you correctly, you are voluntarily asking to help me with my project by making music? That would be great! :)
Since this is a vanilla project, the music needs to be in midi format. I thought it would be best to have some (and any) Doomish-enough sounding music that would fit among original Doom 1 tracks. To be honest, I never pinned my hopes on being able to get lots of new tracks (from anywhere), so I'd be happy to use several and let there the rest of D1 tracks. In the worst case, I'd semi-legally take music from other wads, which seems to be a common practice.
But if you'd help me anyhow, I would be only happy :)

DooM_RO said:

This is great but the maps could benefit from improved detailing.

-1. Too much work :D
-2. I want to take this like a "Doom 3 simplification", not as extension. Also to make the maps "id-styled".

I have a few reasons why I hesitate to make this a community project. Firstly I would like to try to unify the style, which wouldn't be easy if more mappers are involved. Secondly I already have a rough plan of progression in my mind - the way to introduce monsters, which particular maps completely omit, how to replace Vagary etc. So if I made this a community project and if I wanted to preserve my vision, I'd have to preset particular mapslots and assign particular maps to them, and the bossmaps I'd take for myself. This doesn't seems like a good idea to me.
On the other hand, if I were making this alone, it may take years, considering how slow mapper I am. And finally - I feel the idea "has too much potential" (as Lippeth said in other thread) and I don't deserve to take this only for myself. Especially considering I apparently wasn't the first who came with the idea. That is why I created the poll. So, does anyone have any suggestion how to establish this a community project with rational management?

[Pencil of Doom]

I'm try this out,oh by the way can i report any bugs i encounter to you?

[scifista42]

Of course, thank you, although these are only two levels and the final product will contain much more. I'd rather be glad if anyone would share his thoughts regarding the question I asked in my previous post.

[hex11]

I tried to download your demo, but the link is dead. Anyway the screenshots look cool, and I hope you don't give up on this project. I also think the detail level is fine (too much detail ruins vanilla maps, IMO). You probably ought to make this a community project with some solid ground rules, like the way DTWID was managed. Spell everything up front, so that everyone's on the same page. I never played Doom 3, so probably wouldn't be well-suited to participate, but I'd play the maps for their own sake.

[scifista42]

Well, let's try to make this a community project and let's see how it turns out:

PROJECT RULES

• Pick a map from Doom 3 and recreate it for Doom engine in the pace of Doom 1 game. But you can't do it anyhow you want! Read further.
  
• Your map MUST stay as loyal to the original D3 map's layout as possible. See the maps I already made. The layouts are in fact totally the same as their D3 counterparts (the rooms connects in the same order), but you won't immediately notice that because of texturing and pace, and that's the point!
  
• NEVER ADD AREAS. Not even secrets. You are allowed to substract less remarkable areas from the original layout, intersect them slightly differently than in original, but never add.
  
• You are allowed to modify the layout ONLY for one reason - for making the map more nonlinear.
  
• You don't have to stay so close to the originals in aspect of enemy and ammo placement. In general - RAISE monstercounts and focus on action! This is D1 pace, NOT D3 pace!
  
• Don't follow Doom 1 stereotypes like no Lost Souls / Plasmaguns in E1, hellish textures in E3 etc. - NO! Use whichever textures / items that fit. This is not just another D1 replacement megawad.
  
• IMPORTANT DIFFICULTIES - BALANCE HMP LIKE IF IT WAS UV! I made a change to difficulties! Doom 3 kinda lacked real difficulty, and I want to improve it in this project. HNTR will become HMP, HMP will become UV, and UV... should contain much more monsters and additional teleport traps, as well as very tightly balanced ammo. See my maps in the demo, that's how I imagine it.
  
• You are TOTALLY ALLOWED to modify gameplay for the sake of fun and joy. Feel free to remove darkness, spice up monster encounters... Just nothing with the layout!
  
• Go more abstract. Less orthogonal. Don't rely on detail. DON'T RELY ON IT!
  
• Vanilla compatibility, Doom 1 format, UD as IWAD.
  
• Do NOT include new textures other that those included in the demo or those that are direct simple edits/recolors of existing D1 textures, preferably made by yourself. The point of this rule is trying to pretend that this is a real expansion pack released by "the lazy id" in 1996 or so. In addition, I don't want this to become a texturefest, the idea is somewhere else.
  
• Don't use hellish and blood/nuke-spilling animated textures, their animation will be changed! Still working on that.
  
• You are ADVISED to noclip through D3 maps and draw their layouts on paper before you start mapping. You can also ask me to do so for you, as I don't mind it. You can use these layouts I already made: (WARNING: BIG IMAGES)

http://i.imgur.com/pxsosMf.jpg,http://i.imgur.com/BOhGkMS.jpg,http://i.imgur.com/3pHqvOH.jpg,http://i.imgur.com/zlibMBM.jpg,
http://i.imgur.com/HqJshEU.jpg,http://i.imgur.com/DWRUmqu.jpg,http://i.imgur.com/YDUlhy9.jpg

Aren't you satisfied with the rules? It is quite possible, since this is the first time I've made rules for others. If so, feel free to discuss.

See also the updated OP and the maplist. Don't forget to download my demo!

[hex11]

Well I played both of your maps, and they're very good. But I think the detail level is actually "average" instead of "low", at least for vanilla DOOM. For me "low" implies something with less detail than the IWAD maps. You'll find plenty like that if you play enough 1994 wads. Today the general trend seems to be cramming detail all over, so maybe when they look at the original maps they get the impression there's no detail. But they're wrong! :->

The layouts are quite intricate with the interconnections all over. It's *almost* to the point you have to use the automap to navigate, but not quite. I was still able to navigate entirely by instinct, even though I sometimes felt maybe I might be getting lost.

I liked the surprises with the lights going out and monsters popping out. It still felt a bit scary even though there's not "big" monsters roaming about.

I only found one or two secrets. Maybe I just suck at finding those, or maybe it's designed so you have to play the maps several times.

[scifista42]

hex11 said:

The layouts are quite intricate with the interconnections all over. It's *almost* to the point you have to use the automap to navigate, but not quite. I was still able to navigate entirely by instinct, even though I sometimes felt maybe I might be getting lost.
...
I only found one or two secrets. Maybe I just suck at finding those, or maybe it's designed so you have to play the maps several times.

And SURPRISE! You were basically playing Doom 3 layouts. With the same room sequences and secrets on the same place as they were in Doom 3! Although you don't know D3 and admit that these maps doesn't have that much detail than modern maps, you find the maps good!

That's basically what I wanted to achieve. To prove that Doom 3 layouts have a potential.

Now - who is interested in participating? 21 people voted for a community project, and 4 of them for their own participation. At least some opinions, please :)

[GreyGhost]

scifista42 said:

22 people voted for a community project, and 5 of them for their own participation.

FTFY

Count me in, I'll re-install Doom 3 and pick a map to eviscerate.

[scifista42]

Okay, here is the situation:
As it seems, I'll have to be offline for next 4 days (from tomorrow), unless I find some very unprobable opportunity to get access to internet at that time. It isn't a very good start for a possible community project, anyway I hope that when I'm back, I'll gladly find more people confirmed their participation in the meantime. Or that some discussion about the rules or anything unfolded. I'll be glad to answer any possibble questions then.

Looking forward to see you your virtual presence on the forum again!

[Fernito]

I'm interested on working on this (actually, I was one of those 5 people that voted :P). My job is getting pretty time-consuming though, so I must see first if I will have enough time to work on this.

[scifista42]

Hi again. I don't have anything more to say than... Encourage you again to participate in this my project, in which case you pick a particular map from Doom 3 and remake it for vanilla Doom engine, while complying with the project rules. That said, I'd be happy if people who already confirmed their participation claimed their mapslots too, just pick from the list. After a break, now I'll start trying more intensively to get my own maps finished, hoping that it'll set the project in motion a bit.

Here are a few screenshots from E1M3, I admit, not all of them show the very recent progress, but I've never released these before. You may recognize them as tweaked areas from E1M1, because in Doom 3, Level1:Mars City and Level3:Mars City are meant to show the same place before and after the demonic invasion has begun. Look especially at the first one:




I'd like to remind that this project is vanilla. So isn't there really anyone who wants to help me with the project and get the opportunity to work with these red (and more) texture variations? :)

EDIT: New thread is here.