Thank Grandma for your Large Human Brain

[Kontra Kommando]

http://blogs.smithsonianmag.com/science/2012/10/new-evidence-that-grandmothers-were-crucial-for-human-evolution/

According to this article, there is a theory that grandmothers were significant in human evolution. Because of menopause, older women who were unable to continue giving birth, assisted younger mothers in protecting and raising children. Moreover, social relationships with grandmothers helped us evolve more advanced brains.

[Merry Widow]

The other message no longer needs to be here.

[schwerpunk]

alloparenting (wikipedia.org), as it's often called, is pretty fundamental to the human family structure. The anecdotally observable decrease in the West of grand-parental (and communal) involvement in child rearing is pretty alarming. I couldn't say what the consequences of this might be, but they probably aren't good.

P.S. Great article, KK. Thanks for sharing. :)

[Gez]

My own anecdotal evidence was that giving the kids to the (retired) grandparents to take care of while both parents are away working overtime for a meager wage and the flimsy promise not to be fired is something on the rise, not in decline.

[Quasar]

Gez said:

My own anecdotal evidence was that giving the kids to the (retired) grandparents to take care of while both parents are away working overtime for a meager wage and the flimsy promise not to be fired is something on the rise, not in decline.

You have a promise to NOT be fired? My job keeps finding new ways to promise us that we WILL be fired if we do or do not certain things.

I'm bloody fucking tired of it, to tell the truth.

[printz]

This sounds obvious.

[DoomUK]

printz said:

This sounds obvious.

I was thinking the same thing, though I didn't want to appear arrogant by making a point of it. Plain English concepts like this are always easier for me to grasp than how they actually happen - which is what separates someone who's interested in science from a scientist, perhaps.

[Kontra Kommando]

printz said:

This sounds obvious.

Sadly, not for these people.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/05/americans-believe-in-creationism_n_1571127.html

[geo]

Wow what a bullshit stats change.

Anyway what if man did not evolve from monkey but monkey devolved from man?

[Tristan]

geo said:

Anyway what if man did not evolve from monkey but monkey devolved from man?

Then we are all monkeys, and our closest relative is the chipmanzee.

[Kontra Kommando]

geo said:

Wow what a bullshit stats change.

But I wonder if some of those people were answering truthfully in these kinds of surveys. They may claim to believe more towards the religious explanation due to social pressure. Some may even be self-denying in their true beliefs in order to feel as though they have traditional values. I see it happen in my family. When I discuss these kind of things with them personally, they seem to agree with evolution. But when it comes to them expressing themselves to broader audiences, they tend to be more religious. I can imagine this is even more so the case in rural, socially conservative areas of the country.

Example, many people who claim to be catholic do not go to church so often; get divorced; have pre-martial sex; use condoms, eat meat on Fridays, etc. Moreover, many don't really give a damn about what the pope decrees. But when it comes down to the question, "what is your religion", they will answer:"Catholic" (source: my family is catholic, and so are most of the people in the surrounding area.)

[Snakes]

geo said:

Wow what a bullshit stats change.

Anyway what if man did not evolve from monkey but monkey devolved from man?

Then nature has gone full-retard.

[printz]

DoomUK said:

I was thinking the same thing, though I didn't want to appear arrogant by making a point of it. Plain English concepts like this are always easier for me to grasp than how they actually happen - which is what separates someone who's interested in science from a scientist, perhaps.

? (I don't exactly get what you're saying there). Anyway, I mean that it's clear that a grandmother with full free time and good will will help her family as well as she can.

[Kontra Kommando]

I also recall from a class I took back in college, that women were fundamental in the rise of civilization. While men went off hunting for food, women had stayed behind experimenting with cultivation of crops. This had given humans the incentive to remain in certain areas, instead of constantly chasing after animal migrations for food. From this the first villages were established.

[schwerpunk]

geo said:

Anyway what if man did not evolve from monkey but monkey devolved from man?

I'm just going to throw this out there, even though I know the monkey comment was meant facetiously: Devolution isn't actually a real thing. At least not how I think you meant it. Evolution is always an adaptation to the present environment, even if some species reacquire some of the 'primitive' features of their ancestors during their evolution.

Pardon the tangent.

[Clonehunter]

schwerpunk said:

I'm just going to throw this out there, even though I know the monkey comment was meant facetiously: Devolution isn't actually a real thing. At least not how I think you meant it. Evolution is always an adaptation to the present environment, even if some species reacquire some of the 'primitive' features of their ancestors during their evolution.

Pardon the tangent.

*Ahem*

[Merry Widow]

Actually,some of you have been very rude concerning grandmas in this thread.Did it ever occur to any of you that I take care of my husband who had a stroke 10 years ago?That happens sometimes,doesn't it?
Oh yeah,I forgot to mention,my husband just beat cancer [finally]and just had three toes amputated.Is your reaction going to be just as crude?
Personally,I loved and admired my grandma.Do or did you love YOUR grandma?

[Nomad]

My grandmas are/were awesome. Really miss my father's mom, but she died of blood poisoning many years ago (hep C I believe, from a tainted blood transfusion years before that). My mom's mom is still alive, though, and she's always been great to me. I should call her. :)

Also, grouchbag is my new grandma, and she's awesome too so there.

[Merry Widow]

Nomad said:

My grandmas are/were awesome. Really miss my father's mom, but she died of blood poisoning many years ago (hep C I believe, from a tainted blood transfusion years before that). My mom's mom is still alive, though, and she's always been great to me. I should call her. :)

Also, grouchbag is my new grandma, and she's awesome too so there.

Thank you for saying that,Nomad.It just goes to show that some of you have respect for people.This makes you a good person in my book.I also know there are plenty of other good people in this forum.And yes,please call your grandma.She will love you for it!

[schwerpunk]

I miss my grandmas now... So yeah, if you've got one (or two, you lucky devil) don't wait to pass on the good will. Grandpas, too, while you're at it.

Clonehunter: Damn, video evidence that clearly disproves my claim. I've been debunked! D:

[DoomUK]

Nomad said:

Also, grouchbag is my new grandma, and she's awesome too so there.

Can we share her?

I never even knew my biological grandparents, on either of my parents' side. They all died of something before my teeth started to grow. I think I missed out on the sort of sagacious insight an older person has to offer when I was a wee lad.

[Merry Widow]

DoomUK said:

Can we share her?

I never even knew my biological grandparents, on either of my parents' side. They all died of something before my teeth started to grow. I think I missed out on the sort of sagacious insight an older person has to offer when I was a wee lad.

I would be delighted to be your grandma as well.That is an awesome compliment.Thank you!

[GreyGhost]

Eris Falling said:

Then we are all monkeys

You may be, I'm a hominid. :P

[Mr. T]

Snakes said:

Then nature has gone full-retard.

[Clonehunter]

Please don't hate our dear friend the Platypus. They are only peaceful animals, and freaking crazy as they are being furry and laying eggs like they don't give a damn about anything.

Please love and respect our dear friend the platypus, thank you.

[Kontra Kommando]

grouchbag said:

Thank you for saying that,Nomad.It just goes to show that some of you have respect for people.This makes you a good person in my book.I also know there are plenty of other good people in this forum.And yes,please call your grandma.She will love you for it!

My great-grandmother, as well as my grandmother helped raise me when my parents went off to work. They were great

[schwerpunk]

Yay for alloparenting! Glad to see it isn't dead. \o/

Now if people would just invite their grand/parents move in with them when they needed more care instead of putting them in 'homes' all would be right with the world.

[Clonehunter]

schwerpunk said:

Now if people would just invite their grand/parents move in with them when they needed more care instead of putting them in 'homes' all would be right with the world.

This would be a wonderful change of pace actually.

[Kontra Kommando]

schwerpunk said:

Now if people would just invite their grand/parents move in with them when they needed more care instead of putting them in 'homes' all would be right with the world.

Could not agree more.

[Phml]

Now if people would just invite their grand/parents move in with them when they needed more care instead of putting them in 'homes' all would be right with the world.

Dunno, man. It seems obvious it's the moral thing at first, but when faced with the reality of having to care for someone as their health gets worse, to the extent you don't have any life anymore, having to take care of them when they pee themselves, when they shit themselves, when their mind starts to falter and they wake you up every ten minutes at night and ask you to hold their hand, or tell you they're hurting and they need you to hold them just so, to move them just so, and then complain it doesn't do a thing, and yet still ask you to move them again two minutes later, and five minutes later, and every five minutes after that, and shout at you because at times they don't even know who you are anymore, and yell or cry because they fear death is about to take them right this moment, and all of the above all day long, during weeks, months, sometimes years... It gets trying.

Not because of the physical discomfort alone, but because it's your dad or your mom you're seeing reduced to this state, a person you once looked up to now reduced to a broken shell; a person you loved and a person you still love, but even though you can hold it together most of the time there's that one time in the middle of the night where you just can't take the stress and the constant demands, and you yell something rude at your dad or mom, you tell them to shut up, to just shut up for a second, perhaps at that very moment in time, for an instant you wish they would die already, and you feel so utterly shitty about it afterwards. The worst of it all is you know it's twice as painful for them, it's humiliating for them to have you see them like that.

I'm lucky enough to have a large family and I have never been in that situation, but I have been very close to people who were. Even the most kind-hearted people can break down past a certain point. I'd never blame anyone who put their relatives in a nursing home, you can't know the full story without being in their shoes; and sometimes a health care professional is better at taking care of your parents than you would be.