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dobu gabu maru

The DWmegawad Club plays: Coffee Break & Fava Beans & Double Impact

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E1M6: An interesting change of pace as Birkel throws a longer, more fierce map our way. The enemies now come grouped at the sides of doors with elevated perches that allow them to do damage, but it’s still all very manageable if you don’t run around with guns blazing (for me at least). The winding layout here felt somewhat difficult to memorize, as I had to bring up my map on multiple occasions to make sure I was heading in the right direction. The forced nukage sector kind of deterred me from exploring me (and picking up the PG after the door lifted), but overall, this has been my favorite level; Demon summarizes its strengths better than me.

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E1M6: SHADOWS OF DARKNESS

Definitely a stronger map, the larger layout suits the sense of exploration that the old style layout gives. Not a fan of being forced to cross slime to proceed, but this WAD gives away so much health and armor it’s hard to complain. The red key “window” was somewhat strange as the red key can’t be seen through it, though... and the randomly lowering/rising torches and medkit are an ... interesting design choice.

Agree with DOTW that this is the first map I've really enjoyed, though.

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E1M6

At the start of this map I got a definite KDitD vibe. The map being somewhat themed around nukage made for a change of pace and being forced to travel across nukage didn't really bother me because it gives you so much health, including a free non-secret soulsphere.

I found myself backtracking a considerable amount in this map, but that might of been me just being dumb. Another map of the same quality as most of the rest of the wad.

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E1M6 - Shadows of Darkness
Same old story here, good layout, a lot of nukage running which can be annoying the worst part is getting the red key otherwise the rest isn't that bad. There are more things to kill which at least gives more fun in that department despite not exactly threatening the player.
First map so far to take over 10 minutes to complete.

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e1m7
I kept getting lost in this one, with its myriad of indirect routes, double-backs, elevator ladders, and other such shenanigans. As a result, the level became more chore than fun; I'd clear out areas, then run around trying to work out where to go next.

I did think the combat was a little better staged. We get two barons, and a couple of traps with some (admittedly rather small) teeth. There are even multiple cases where enemies attack from two angles at once. Had I not found the layout so confounding, I would definitely be picking this as the best level of the set.

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e1m7: oh well, this is the perfect (?) e1 map of the episode, lots of non-linearity in layout and kind of hard gameplay with puzzle stuff.. awesome map with lots of choices in your path, the only complain there's a lack of pistol/chaingun ammo...

EDIT: usual video http://youtu.be/4G8HG2s-lzQ

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E1M7: If secrets are the name of the game here, then this map takes the cake. It has ten secrets and an easily accessed exit for those unwilling to plunder its depths. I found four of the secrets before throwing in the towel, clutching my unused yellow key card to my chest before throwing it in the garbage. The section with all the nukage to the north was my favorite, not just because the split light beams give it a nice atmosphere but because there’s a lot of sergeants stacked there, actually making it a tough spot to just run through. I actually liked the design of this map and wished that all of Birkel’s maps were more similar to this and the last map, instead of the sleepwalking quickies that frontloaded this set.

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E1M7: TITAN'S ANOMALY

Combat finally ramps up here, I actually died once (partially due to sloppy play and unlucky RNG but still). Lots of monsters in closer range and higher density. Even two barons, although the switch that lowers them is completely pointless, since all it does is reveal two barons and nothing else! Some other strange design decisions, like having the drop-down to the rocket launcher at the start be tagged secret then have another secret rocket launcher later on. This map especially has a problem with the “what does this switch do” design, as I think I looped through the level several times trying to find out where to go next. Still, exploring these levels is fun, and there’s plenty of secrets to try and uncover too.

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Here's a speedrun - Fava Beans in 9:30 on Nightmare skill for those who are interested. -> link

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E1M7 - Titan’s Anomaly
Well this had a bit more bite to it, more monsters and a denser population. The map isn't as big but a lot more connected which could lead to confusion I guess though I found little issue here, I spent a while looking for 2 secrets I had not found during my progress.
The barons are completely optional, is this good or not, not sure to be honest.
In the end this map still plays to it's strengths and the weaknesses are not a bad here with more action.

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E1M7

Well this map was a significant step up in difficulty from the rest, and I mean significant. I actually checked DB2 just in case they'd completely forgotten to implement difficulty settings. While there are difficulty settings, I think they're questionable. All cacos are gone but it seems few fights change in any meaningful way.

I died about 4 times in this map, largely due to my own stupidly like rocketing the wall.

This map has some strange areas. At the southern most point of the map near the yellow key door there is an inescapable slime pit that does not deal damage. To get to the backpack you have to cross over a series of 4 lifts and then backtrack the same way, which just felt totally superfluous. There is a switch that releases two barons but does nothing else. The yellow and red key are optional but the yellow and red doors only lead to tiny rooms that each house secrets inside them.

The style is the usual many-windowed affair but the map itself feels so different and is bonkers in so many ways. It's kinda cool actually. Also the appalling difficulty balance actually produced a map with fun gameplay on HNTR, so I'm torn over whether I feel justified in calling the balancing bad, haha.

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e1m8
Two barons. Really? We already fought two barons on the last level, and your big plan for this one is to repeat that?

This is trivially easy on continuous play, of course. After finishing it, I actually replayed from pistol start and finished it again, just because it was so anticlimactic. In 1995, fighting two barons with just a shotgun probably seemed like a fairly big deal. Now, not so much!


Overall
Fava Beans greatest strength is in its 'big picture' architectural design. It generally uses interconnections well, and does a great job with windows. You regularly see into future parts of the map, have the chance to snip at enemies in a completely different area of the map, or unexpectedly emerge into an area you glimpsed earlier. That part of the level design is excellent.

Alas, the other parts are less good. Texturing work is solid, but quite drab, with pretty minimal detail. Combats are similarly bland for the most part. I can readily excuse the low monster counts as a product of the time, but the lack of crossfires and multi-flank attacks is a real weakness of the fights. Vertical variance is sometimes used, but rarely are enemies on multiple vertical planes at the same time: you might be fighting against higher or lower enemies, but only rarely does this happen at the same time as you deal with threats on your own level.

I would love to see a map set with more modern detailing and encounter design, but the overall architectural design of Fava Beans. It would be a real winner. As is, this wad is an excellent effort for its time, but that time was long ago.

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E1M8: ORION OUTPOST

The world’s most pointless E1M8 replacement. Take E1M8, remove all the monsters except the barons, remove the cool star design, and you end up with this. Yawn. It’s even undermined by the fact that there were already two Barons on E1M7! And reading the text file, I notice that this was the only map made especially for release as an episode... which is pretty disappointing since it's so nothing.

OVERALL THOUGHTS

Well, I had never played or even heard of Fava Beans before this. Even though it was made in 1995, I had seen lots of comments that raised my expectations, such as this one:

ArmouredBlood said:

Fava beans is not your typical E1 replacement, unless your typical E1 replacement has crazy interconnectivity and awesome flow.


Yeah, this mapset doesn't really come anywhere near this. Sure, there's a lot of interconnectivity, but that's not enough to carry a mapset, and I definitely wouldn't say it has "awesome flow." Most of the levels are pitifully easy or even empty.

Only E1M1, E1M6 and E1M7 can be called good levels outright, the rest are definitely below-average and severely flawed in many respects. E1M2 has bizarre itemization, E1M3 is really ugly, E1M8 and E1M9 are pointlessly short, etc. Overall, I feel like the WAD is an interesting example of KTiTD-style design cues, but as an actual WAD to play? Meh. Good use of windows and height differences and secret area design, the rest is subpar.

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E1M8 - Orion Outpost
Well this map is an outright fail.
So a shotgun and 2 barons in plenty of space equals me leaving the map without taking a single hit. Boring and uninteresting anticlimax to the episode.

The wad as a whole, it's pretty decent in my view, lots of height variation and good texture usage throughout. The author does try to mix the textures up a little adding a few episode 2 textures here and there. The gameplay is a major weakness made worse by the fact that the design of the maps begged to have the player facing many enemies coming from all directions, this was never utilised and instead you get a wad much easier than the IWad. The use of exploration and secrets was excellent though making the maps a decent adventure despite the lack of gun-ho action.
In the end the maps are well designed but the gameplay feels very conservative as if the author didn't want to kill the player whatsoever. In the end I guess people will probably leave this wad with mixed feelings of meh to good though I'm sure most will appreciate the quality for it's time and the many strengths which could be used in wads to this very day.

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Checking the schedule, we seem to have ended Fava Beans a day early. Looks like e1m9 was supposed to get a day of its own (not that it merited one, IMO).

Oops :)

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E1M5

A quick one to blast through. After the first four maps (plus secret) I decided to rush these, play aggressively and stupidly. As a result this level a short but fun foray.

E1M6

This one is good but the only one so far that had me a little confused which way to go. The layout was not quite as intuitive as the other maps. Other than this it was enjoyable. I like being forced through slime as long as you're not lost in it.

E1M7

This is my favourite of the set. I would probably have got confused due to the backtracking but I died a few times and tried different paths each time I restarted so I got a good feel of the layout. The difficulty was ramped up for this one, there was not a lot of armour and I kept falling victim to shotgunners blasting 40% off my health. If the rest of the maps had a similar challenge about them to this one this mapset would be brilliant.

E1M8

Not a lot to say about this one. The architecture prior to the fight looked nice but outside of this there's nothing to note.

Fava Beans

I remember being wowed by this the first time I played upon first discovering Doom had a modding community and while I don't hold it in quite such high esteem now it still has plenty of charm even if that's not necessarily in combat very often.

The other Doom PWAD I discovered around this time was Classic Episode, which I think was more taxing at least. Makes me want to give it a whirl. Another time maybe, it's Double Impact next instead. Another E1 replacement but with even less in common with Fava Beans I expect I'll find.

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e1m8: "when two barons you already fought in the level before meet a doomguy with a shotgun, the doomguy with a shotgun is a dead man."

Eh, over this stupid joke,this is a REALLY short and not so great final map of this episode...

gameplay: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tgw_NzEunc

overall, great classic episode, loved it like the first i played it, but in modern times it appeared much more easier than my younger days...

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Capellan said:

Checking the schedule, we seem to have ended Fava Beans a day early. Looks like e1m9 was supposed to get a day of its own (not that it merited one, IMO).

Oops :)


That's an error on my part, I meant to go straight into Double Impact (so it's okay to post about it tomorrow). I figure the 25th we'll take suggestions for the next megawad.

E1M8: At least 2002: ADO really tried. This is more or less a complete filler map, with a laughably easy finale for continuous players and a laughably dull one for pistol starters. Surely, Suitepee and SteveD have to agree that MAP11 of Coffee Break was a far more fitting finale?

======

And that’s it. I don’t have much to say in the way of comments for this episode, as we all have different Doom tastebuds and mine are pretty resistant to secrets-hunting. The layouts were neat and the theme was very Knee-Deepy, so kudos to Birkel for producing something of great quality back in ‘95. Favorites were M6 and M7 with M8 and M9 being throwaways; shame Birkel didn’t continue mapping as I’m sure he’d put out some phenomenal stuff nowadays, given his knack for complex designing back then.

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E1M7 -- Titan's Anomaly - 100% Kills / 100% Secrets
This is Fava Beans' other genuinely enjoyable map. At first, I was inclined towards E1M6 as being the episode's best map, but having replayed them both, I reckon this one really is better, albeit only by a small margin....I suspect E1M6 might've initially taken my fancy because it was the one to first surpass my otherwise low expectations. Anyway, Titan's Anomaly stalwartly continues carrying the Fava Beans torch, with another interwoven, semi-nonlinear, secret-laden layout in an expanded Phobos idiom. Tellingly, I seem to recall (although perhaps I'm mistaken here) that another map by Birkel, or perhaps by someone else using his work as a blueprint, based in some ways on parts of this same layout, appears in one of the popular DooM II megaWADs of later years.

So where exactly is it better than E1M6? Well, for one thing, I think that this is just a little bit more visually striking, which I attribute largely to lighting. The really striking area that will probably be mentioned by others is the northwestern room with the strange old equipment rising from slime vats. Birkel obviously took a lot of trouble working on the directional lighting piercing the gloom in this room, and while he made an error or two (at least insofar as one obsesses over realism), as one can see standing at particular angles, the overall impression works out well. Very well, even; this one room is the first thing I remembered about this mapset when it was first suggested we play it a few weeks ago. Lighting throughout the map is generally in good taste, though, even where it's less flashy--check out the shadow of the overhang in the slime-pool room that the booth you begin in overlooks.

The play itself is a little more refined, too. It's no more difficult than any other map in the set, but it continues and builds upon E1M6's theoretically effective monster placement, with even more relevant window-snipers and more monsters near barrels or hiding around bends. The starting area is a good example; the crowd in the pool room is prime fodder for a barrel splash, and when standing down by the pool itself, looking through the eastern windows (which show the soulsphere) you can see a really cool 'diorama' of windowed annexes within windowed annexes, each staffed with zombies and imps who all have overlapping fields of fire. The Anomaly also ends feeling a little more robust as a result of hosting Fava Beans' only proper 'traps', these being the rocket launcher teleporter/closet ambush in the western wedge-shaped room, and the surprise Baron duo nearby, who appear to serve no other purpose than to present players with an optional challenge, which I would consider a lot more kosher than the way the Baron was just haphazardly tossed in earlier in the mapset.

Yes, to reiterate what I said about E1M6 before, this is a fully complete/satisfying experience. Regardless of its lack of challenge, combat is reasonably sound, and there's a lot of cool stuff to see and more interesting secrets to find. I wonder if these later maps being better is coincidental or not? Birkel's style certainly seems to have become more and more refined as the episode has progressed, as though he'd gained more and more experience/ambition. Or maybe not.....

E1M8 -- Orion Outpost - 100% Kills / No Secrets
.....because this is pathetic. What can be said? It's a paragon of anticlimax, and I don't really buy the idea that shotgun vs. two Barons and nothing else would've been a much more thrilling, edge-of-your seat proposition in 1994/1995; there are countless contemporary WADs to suggest this is not the case, and it's not like Birkel has evinced any real concern for providing a tense challenge at any point prior to this, after all. No, I think he just ran out of steam, or maybe he personally had no interest in boss maps, and just shat this out to fill out the set (the textfile does say it was made specifically for this release). Again, I want to be clear that my problem with this is not that it's easy, but rather that it totally lacks drama and imagination. Shit, there aren't even any shadows.


So, on that sour note, Fava Beans draws to a close. I can't say I found the majority of it particularly entertaining, but in truth, I all but knew it was going to be that way going in. I decided to play anyway because there are things about this WAD that have real merit, and it's good to look at and think about them at times. As has been hammered into the ground by this point, it's all about the layouts. I don't think I'd agree with the claim that they all have great flow, but they do all have quite a lot of personality, and being full of bonus play in the form of clever secrets sweetens the deal; all of this is all the more impressive when one considers the general standard of construction of WADs at the time. On the other hand, action is for all but 1.5 maps severely lacking; it's not just a question of being too easy, as it is of the fights clearly being treated as afterthoughts in the design process. Just as Fava's tightly-knit layouts have an appeal that spans generations, this lack of bloodshed is a flaw that also spans generations; by the standards of 1995 or by the standards of 2013, it is extremely lax in this regard, and it is for this reason that I can't view it as being above reproach.

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E1M8

Huh.

Wad Summary

This wad has very little in terms of gameplay, on HNTR at least. I don't know if I would advise a Doom player to play this wad because there's very little shooting. I would however advise Doom mappers to play this wad because if you look beyond the gameplay there are parts of the wad that have things you can learn from. This is mainly the way levels have visually interconnected layouts and how secrets are handled, many maps are strong on exploration with constant glimpses into other areas.

Ultimately it's a 1995 wad and everything that that entails, but better technically constructed than many other early maps (very few bugs). Without any entrenched mapping cliches to mold the creative output of the mapper it produces some pretty unique ideas, even if the sum of its parts is low quality by modern standards. It should be kept in mind that a mapset of this calibre being produced with the tools and restrictions from 18 years ago is a mighty achievement, and this wad stands on it's own merits when you take into account the circumstances around its creation.

What I'm trying to say is that you can learn things about Doom mapping from this mapset, but if you're looking for a fun time you should probably look elsewhere.

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dobugabumaru said:
I figure the 25th we'll take suggestions for the next megawad.


There's a D2TWID public beta. Do we need much discussion? :)

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Capellan said:

There's a D2TWID public beta. Do we need much discussion? :)

I was going to suggest another classic Doom2 megawad like Hell Revealed or Memento Mori 2, but D2TWID is fine by me.

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dtwid will kind of get enough attention even without this club so I would suggest playing something else. Maybe a ZDoom megawad for a change, like Ultimate Simplicity.

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E1M3 -- Impalement Station
This one is a bit confusing (but just a bit) and has some unorthodox design decisions. For example, the secret exit is accessible way before you can even reach the normal exit (though it is slightly "hidden" through the neat ledge walk), and there's an invisible teleport line down in the ooze (why not just have a lift? or a normal teleporter). The fights are slightly heavier than in E1M1 and E1M2, but even without an armour for much of the map, there are no problems. There are some nice touches throughout: SteveD mentioned the window letting you see the normal exit (like sayng "here is what you're looking for, don't mind exploring that ledge later on!" ;-D) and a switch nearby opens another window giving you a clue of how to get to the green armour secret. I love the secrets, by the way, very easy to miss if you're unattentive but if you play slowly you'll spot 'em or surmise that they must be located at about the place where they indeed are (the computer area map is especially sneaky as the damaging floor entices the player to haste through to the "main prize", the plasma rifle).

The starting area resembles bits of Sean's "Io Lab", MM2 map 24 (around the BK door), maybe I'm the only one who sees it? It's not a copy/paste but it communicates the same sense of location, for me at least. Neat map, again with nice interconnectivity as Adam mentions. Progression is a bit daft though, having you running back and forth for no good reason. --4/5

E1M9 -- Creeping Death
Well, it's absolutely impossible for me to give an unbiased opinion on this since I spent a super fun speedrunning session on this map several years back. Yes, it's extremely small and short, with the exit being immediately accessible. But as a simple and sweet UV max project during a rainy sunday it's utterly delightful, and in that way it resembles several great maps in "Scythe", "Scythe 2" (map 6, mmmm), "Demonfear" (map 3, map 7... long list here), "Requiem" (maps 26, 32), among many others. It makes for great entertainment to attempt to clear out this small map in a seemingly impossibly fast time, and is why these kinds of maps always get attention from speedrunners. The reason is not only that it is small but that the layout is allows for different types of strategies. The invuln secret helps to further the tactical possibilities.

Objectively, though, the architecture isn't particularly memorable. The trapped spectre I've always considered to be a mistake but having read some of the club members' comments, I may have to reconsider. I like getting fresh perspectives on things I've made up my mind about a long time ago. :-) --4/5

E1M4 -- Triton Lunar Base
As Demon of the Well says, this is more about layout and hunting for secrets than the fights. In fact, I'd say this is true for most of "Fava Beans", with the exception of E1M8 and parts of some later maps perhaps. I still like the fights here, though, there are enough monsters to keep my interest up and the amount of shotgunners, especially, means you can't just rush through (if playing from scratch). There are several things I love about this one: it's straightforward and uncomplicated, compact, contains several nice sequences -- some giving serious flashbacks of how things work and feel in the original maps. I love the E1M7 homage secret, the soulsphere bit, the plasma rifle secret (pity though that it's mostly useless unless playing continuous), the way you can open up paths connecting parts of the level (one of those doorways being openable by gunfire and having a barrel placed in front of it -- genius)... It looks like a mix of E1 and E2, perhaps on purpose, and it works for me on all levels, in spite of the two gratuitous Cacodemons, the two(!) blue armours, and the too-narrow-to-register secret sector. --5/5

E1M5 -- Charon's Lab
As has been said, this map is flatter than the rest, but the ability to see areas visited and soon to visit remains. A very memorable map for me, with several areas (the opening hub, the exit room and nearby plasma rifle room) being imprinted in my memory and causing serious flashbacks. It looks like another E1/E2 mix, with several E1M3 homages (light pillar corridor, invisibility room, green armour room), but also ones to E1M5 (computer map secret), E2M2, E2M4 and E2M6, and perhaps even other maps?, all done subtly enough and with a personal touch. Progression is clean-cut. Easy-to-find secrets, but they are cool. I adore several neat things here, for example: forcing you to go through lots of hurtful ooze -- where you're likely to lose at least 50% health -- to get your prize in a risk-payoff setup, and rewarding players with keen eyes with a chance to replenish lost health via the soulsphere. If that's not brilliant gameplay then I don't know what is. The only minor drawback for me is, simply put, the slightly cavalier attitute to monster deployment... but the map is not about staged fights and to be honest I don't find the original E1 maps more challenging.

Again, it's not possible for me to be objective since this map has stayed in my mind for so long. I consider it to be one of the most classic add-on maps in Doom. --5/5

E1M6 -- Shadows of Darkness
If I was slightly apologetic about giving the previous maps high grades, I certainly don't need to be here. This is a sensational E1 styled techbase (wiith some smallish E2 parts thrown in). The progression is slightly complex but adds to the experience here since you need to be in an explorative mood to find the nifty secrets. Gameplay is quite fun, not difficult, but lots of monsters to kill (roughly the same amount as in the original E1M6, and roughly the same monster fauna composition), and enough fights to keep you occupied through most of it. It does get a bit empty towards the end if you're secret hunting, and, regardless, when running to the exit from the time you've raised the bridge to it. Again, several parts are loving recreations of bits of the original Doom maps (the soulsphere and stairs close by for example)...

However, I hope everyone noticed that this map, in turn, has been mimicked, in a map we sort of recently played? E1M5 of 2002:ADO contains a section very similar to the section behind the red key door here. Not only that, the exit section (section in front of the exit door, with nukage) of this map has been replicated in another map, the name of which sadly escapes me at the moment. Can someone assist my memory? --5/5

E1M7 -- Titan's Anomaly
Another highly entertaining E1 techbase. It's basically faultless IMHO, with lovely intricacies in design -- such as the YK only being used to access additional secrets in an already secret area -- and pretty good action, especially if you jump down and grab the RL right away, which makes for a delightfully violent start. Various bits again reference the original Doom maps (E1M2, E1M7, etc) and the starting area, in turn, was used for MM2 map 24. It's the most difficult map in the WAD, but still, objectively, easy. Like in the other maps you can exit quite early on but if thou wantest 100% kills and secrets, thou must explore. And exploration is fun, with 10 mostly good secrets to find -- they're not quite as clever as the secrets in M6 in my opinion -- and again a large number of monsters to kill (on par with the original E1M7). Took me about 14 minutes to 100/100 this, mostly from memory. Solid map. --5/5

E1M8 -- Orion Outpost
A small and very simple finish to the WAD is a bit of a letdown, but does not really feel out of place; just... it's way too basic to be very compelling, finishable in a mere 38 seconds even in NightMare!. ;-) Again, I'm fond of it for personal -- nostalgic -- reasons, and fully realize that it, for someone who plays this map for the first time in 2013, is even less interesting today than the original E1M8. No secrets. --4/5

Overall Impressions
At the turn of the century, I considered "Fava Beans" to be one of the two or three best E1 remakes of all time. Unlike many of you, most of you even, I played this for the first time back in 1996-7 or thereabouts, and thought of it as almost a seamless extension of the original E1.

I still consider it to be a very good E1 remake today, but more than a decade later it has gotten some serious competition. I agree with Adam that its main strengths are (and have always been) the layouts and interconnectivity. Sean's focus was probably never primarily on gameplay, and since very few WADs from this era have challenging gameplay by today's standards, it doesn't really make sense for me to criticize the gameplay. It's never stupidly annoying, it's just ..not a factor when playing through "Fava Beans" (almost).

I'll just state that I enjoyed, and still enjoy, running through these works and still get a vibe similar to the one I get when loading up Romero's old maps. :-)

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For the next megawad I'm placing my vote firmly for the CLUB to cover the Monochrome Mapping Project, IF it gets finished in time for after this one concludes!

Also doing my Fava Beans livestream in about an hour's time, link in previous post. May or may not post some wad impressions in here also afterwards.

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For those that can't scroll up: http://www.twitch.tv/johnsuitepee

Also, since we're already talking about what to play next month, I might as well voice my opinion—while I would be fine playing Monochrome or D2TWiD, I'm probably going to throw my vote towards Hell Revealed or Memento Mori 2, after my anticipation to replay them was increased by 40oz's thread. We'll have to put it to a vote to see what comes out on top though, or if there are any new suggestions. Although, I might change my mind if July is doesn't have new releases, since that'd be a better time to play an old megawad.

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I really don't mind what we play to be honest. D2TWID is definitely going to be playtested to death anyway so maybe avoid a beta testing role for it. Monochrome mapping project sounds interesting. Or of course playing another classic wad is an option. This month leaves us with no reason not to go one way or the other. Either way count me in for my contribution to the thread :)

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Memfis said:
dtwid will kind of get enough attention even without this club so I would suggest playing something else. Maybe a ZDoom megawad for a change, like Ultimate Simplicity.


I figure a wad with lots of attention is good for the club, since it might encourage more people to join up :)

I also think that where there is a current community project to work on, we should do that ahead of older maps. Support the people still actively releasing new material, and all that (so when Monochrome actually comes out, then like Suitepee I'd like us to play it). We could wait until D2TWID's final release, but I figure that the DWMC's analytical approach is a Good Thing in beta-testing terms.

But I am aware mine is not the only opinion :)

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I'd vote for either Hell Revealed or Monochrome.

Kristian Ronge said:

E1M8 -- Orion Outpost
A small and very simple finish to the WAD is a bit of a letdown, but does not really feel out of place; just... it's way too basic to be very compelling, finishable in a mere 38 seconds even in NightMare!. ;-) Again, I'm fond of it for personal -- nostalgic -- reasons, and fully realize that it, for someone who plays this map for the first time in 2013, is even less interesting today than the original E1M8. No secrets. --4/5


I realize that opinions can vary greatly, but giving a 4/5 to a map that's an empty staircase and a few boxes with a shotgun and 2 Barons in it smells like rampant grade inflation to me. :)

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