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Sokoro

"Turok 2: Seeds of evil" fog, drawing distance.. posible sourceport?

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So it is 2013... and I have no need for that terrible low drawing distance and fog in this old game that I own (it is on some cd from pc games magazine).
My hardware is sufficient enough to render everything in posible sight.
Is there any way to remove the fog and increase drawing distance for level geometry and objects ?
What about changing field of view? it seems too narrow in this game... Does any sourceport for turok 2 exist?

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Not that I know of, since I don't believe the source code for the Turok games was released.

However, there is a game engine recreation in the work for Turok the First, see here.

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Sokoro said:

that terrible low drawing distance and fog

You're missing the point.

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There is Turok EX in current development by Kaiser. I don't know if he'll create one for the second. EDIT: Gez beat me to it by a long shot.

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Come to think of it, I think Silent Hill would also be vastly improved without that annoying fog. Not. :P

It would be interesting to see how Turok 2 plays without the thick fog, though I tend to think it wouldn't be as fun.

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schwerpunk said:

It would be interesting to see how Turok 2 plays without the thick fog, though I tend to think it wouldn't be as fun.

I don't think the game would play any different, but you'll see some shit that the developers were trying to hide.

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I always found games that tried to hide shitty design in thick fog rather unappaling to play so the Turok series was mostly a no-go for me.

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Graf Zahl said:

I always found games that tried to hide shitty design in thick fog rather unappaling to play so the Turok series was mostly a no-go for me.

uuhhh... what kind of a supercomputer did you have back in 1998? it was even called "turok fog" when other games used the trick, because companies wanted people to be able to play games on their shitty machines (bah). it has nothing to do with design.

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Graf Zahl said:

I always found games that tried to hide shitty design in thick fog rather unappaling to play so the Turok series was mostly a no-go for me.

How is hiding technological limitations bad design? All games have to make compromises to look and play well on available technology.

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dew said:

uuhhh... what kind of a supercomputer did you have back in 1998? it was even called "turok fog" when other games used the trick, because companies wanted people to be able to play games on their shitty machines (bah). it has nothing to do with design.


He might have been referring to ugly map borders that were conveniently cloaked by fog.

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Is there a chronosceptre weapon available for Zdoom yet; that was my favourite weapon in the original Turok on N64.

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neubejiita said:

Is there a chronosceptre weapon available for Zdoom yet; that was my favourite weapon in the original Turok on N64.

I would love to see a ZDoom weapon that you piece together over time. Even better if it was like Doom64's Unmaker, that receives increased functionality with each added part.

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schwerpunk said:

I would love to see a ZDoom weapon that you piece together over time.


Doesn't the Sigil act like that?

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Well, colour me schooled. I didn't know about Sigil. I really need to get better at Strife... I suck so, so much at that game.

Aside: If I had any programming chops, I'd love to make something like this for Vanilla Doom.

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schwerpunk said:

Aside: If I had any programming chops, I'd love to make something like this for Vanilla Doom.


You realize this is an oxymoron, right?

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Gez said:

You realize this is an oxymoron, right?

No, I didn't. Do you mean that Doom is so hardcoded that it would be a waste of time / illegal to mod a new weapon into it? I suppose there has to be a reason it hasn't been done already outside of Strife (to my knowledge).

Or did you mean oxymoron in a logical progression kind of way? I don't completely follow.

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I don't need a degree from Hurrtard University to understand that he meant taking something close to vanilla and putting such a weapon into it. Geez.

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Technician said:

How is hiding technological limitations bad design? All games have to make compromises to look and play well on available technology.



Hiding technical limitations is bad design, if they are done in a way that they can't be adjusted for better hardware.

Turok looked like shit and yes, I had a good computer at that time.
Don't forget that at this time a game like Quake 2 had already been released which didn't have to resort to ridiculous fog effects to play well.

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Graf Zahl said:

Hiding technical limitations is bad design, if they are done in a way that they can't be adjusted for better hardware.

Turok looked like shit and yes, I had a good computer at that time.
Don't forget that at this time a game like Quake 2 had already been released which didn't have to resort to ridiculous fog effects to play well.


I see what you're saying, Graf. And it makes me wonder what Turok 2 would've looked like if it had been designed more, um, intelligently. But the fact remains that the fog was designed to complement the gameplay, so I'm just not sure reducing the fog would lead to a better playing experience. Turok 2's arenas are much larger than Q2's, and the fog acts in many cases to provide a 'soft wall' between one enemy encounter and another. If you put it back too far, don't be surprised if you see enemies staring straight at you in the distance, completely oblivious to the melee occurring mere meters away.

Anyway, I don't want to come off sounding like a Fog Apologist: I essentially agree. There's certainly nothing anathemic about reducing or removing the fog, whatever its impact on the game may be. PC games are for tweaking; for better or for worse. I have no idea why I spent so long defending this old tech - I guess I'm a Turok purist. :P

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schwerpunk said:

Or did you mean oxymoron in a logical progression kind of way? I don't completely follow.

You modify vanilla, it no longer is vanilla. :p


Though I guess you could be evil and name your port Vanilla Doom just to confuse everyone.

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schwerpunk said:

If you put it back too far, don't be surprised if you see enemies staring straight at you in the distance, completely oblivious to the melee occurring mere meters away.


You do realize that a source port removing fog could also fix any subsequent gameplay issues right?

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Khorus said:

You do realize that a source port removing fog could also fix any subsequent gameplay issues right?

True, although I don't know of any, unfortunately. There was a Source engine port in the works, but it got discontinued as far as I know.

Anyway, I'll stop waxing on about fog, because I'm not really contributing to the original question.

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Just to piss off people who think Turok would work better sans fog, I'm going to learn the ways of programming and make a "Misty Doom" source port, in which, unlike Doom64's subtle and atmospheric use of fog, your vision is pointlessly and infuriatingly restricted to a few steps ahead of you.

There's no better rebuttal to a ridiculous assertion than to play people at their own game :P

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Fog was a fact of life considering the N64's 90s-era hardware. I don't get what the controversy is about.

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Mr. T said:

Fog was a fact of life considering the N64's 90s-era hardware. I don't get what the controversy is about.



So why was it also in the PC version? It may have been a fact of life on consoles but compared with other PC titles of the same time it looked ridiculous.

The PC version was just a very lame conversion of the console version without any adjustment for better rendering capabilities.

I also disagree that the thick fog was part of the design. Yes, fog may have been part of the world but it could have been done in a more intelligent fashion.

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Graf Zahl said:

fog may have been part of the world but it could have been done in a more intelligent fashion

Correct me if I'm wrong, but back in those days you could either have fog or no fog in your game. Volumetric fog which wasn't fixed in density was a no-no, even on PCs.

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