Microsoft unveils the new Xbox machine

[schwerpunk]

Really, I'm surprised a simple PC stand-in, made for plugging into a TV hasn't swept the marketplace by now. But I guess those have existed for a while now.

[DooM_RO]

schwerpunk said:

Really, I'm surprised a simple PC stand-in, made for plugging into a TV hasn't swept the marketplace by now. But I guess those have existed for a while now.

I think Valve is preparing something like that. It would be very beneficial for the PC market. Now all we need is an OS made specially for gamers...ValveOS?

[printz]

DooM_RO said:

Now all we need is an OS made specially for gamers...ValveOS?

Windows.

[Jodwin]

DooM_RO said:

I think Valve is preparing something like that. It would be very beneficial for the PC market. Now all we need is an OS made specially for gamers...ValveOS?

How the hell would a PC box that's intended to be plugged into a TV and, as a direct result, be played with a controller be beneficial to the PC market where your main peripherals are keyboard and mouse?

Also, a ValveOS would either be a huge flop or turn Valve into an even worse monopoly than Microsoft is.

[schwerpunk]

Jodwin said:

How the hell would a PC box that's intended to be plugged into a TV and, as a direct result, be played with a controller be beneficial to the PC market where your main peripherals are keyboard and mouse?

Also, a ValveOS would either be a huge flop or turn Valve into an even worse monopoly than Microsoft is.

Assuming it follows one of primary strengths of PC design - modular hardware and less-restricted architecture, then it would be very good, indeed. There's nothing stopping someone from plugging in a mouse & keyboard to play in front of their TV, but it's unlikely that many would opt to do so.

These TV-PCs wouldn't be stealing customers from the PC market so much as they'd be taking them back from the console market.

And I'd prefer an open enough design that would allow me install my own OS, provided I was willing to go through to hoops the get it running. Too bad that's great for gamers, but not so great for publishers. :P

[Jodwin]

schwerpunk said:

Assuming it follows one of primary strengths of PC design - modular hardware and less-restricted architecture, then it would be very good, indeed. There's nothing stopping someone from plugging in a mouse & keyboard to play in front of their TV, but it's unlikely that many would opt to do so.

These TV-PCs wouldn't be stealing customers from the PC market so much as they'd be taking them back from the console market.

Ergh?
1) "No one" is going to plug a keyboard and mouse in front of their TV for an array of practical reasons, including but not limited to, lack of a desk, limited wire length (unless you go cordless) and sofas.

2) You don't want to steal customers from the console market, you want to steal them from the console mindset. People don't buy consoles because they're consoles, they buy consoles because you can use them to play games on TV while sitting on the sofa holding a controller. If you make a PC box fit for that same purpose, you aren't going to change a thing because the games will be developed around the exact same principles as usual leaving the PC gamer master race in the exactly same predicament as before.

3) If someone, for example Valve, would make a PC box you can be absolutely sure they'd do their best to restrict hardware specs. Doing the opposite would be shooting themselves in the foot, as that's what the console people want: A very simple purchase decision that serves them for a few years to come.

[printz]

schwerpunk said:

Assuming it follows one of primary strengths of PC design - modular hardware and less-restricted architecture, then it would be very good, indeed. There's nothing stopping someone from plugging in a mouse & keyboard to play in front of their TV, but it's unlikely that many would opt to do so.

I hope it's not Linux and something dirt-cheap using it. I've had enough Android and GNU to know how it feels like. I'd rather have Microsoft control it, they have a very good history with games and making engines/drivers for them.

[schwerpunk]

It doesn't help that there isn't exactly a huge cash incentive for a company to come up with a dedicated, modular, open-platform plug-and-play-for-tv PC. At least not one of the Big 3. Although I do maintain there is most likely enough interest to support a small, tertiary market, with the potential to grow over time.

[kristus]

There's been plenty of those coming for years and years. They're called PCs. Plug an HDMI cable from the Laptop/Desktop to the TV and you are ready to go.

This post was written sitting in a sofa in front of a TV with keyboard and mouse using a laptop connected to a TV with an HDMI cable.

[scalliano]

Heh.

[Radon]

Maes said:

I has always been like that -but this didn't preclude a console from beating PCs that were actually affordable by the average consumer at games and only at games, at a fraction of the price (e.g. compare price of a new Playstation in 1995 vs the best Pentium with the best graphics card you could have at the time...).

This factor, plus the fixed hardware specs and optimizations and the software support, is what keeps consoles afloat longer than e.g. "PC building standards" such as "Multimedia PC" 1, 2 and 3, which had become irrelevant in a matter of months. If you want a device which is GUARANTEED to play all the latest games (through the SOFTWARE DEVELOPERS' EFFORTS) for at least a decade, and you don't have to upgrade every 6 months, then consoles are for you.

Well unless you count the alternate and upgrade builds of consoles that come out every so often.

In reference to Microsoft's business model of service(rumored) with X-One, it just seems that in the long run customers would be over-paying than compared to owning a PC.

PC parts are also getting cheaper, especially when the next line of cards from Radeon is around the corner. Don't mean to use the biased example but just saying the parts that already rival the technology will become even more affordable.

On the other hand, not everyone can just jump on the best new thing of the month as you've mentioned. I dont know, consoles in modern-era just seem sketchy.

[Maes]

Radon said:

Well unless you count the alternate and upgrade builds of consoles that come out every so often.

These were really only an artifact of consoles becoming -effectively- PCs in disguise (surprise surprise, that happened without shame already from the first Xbox!), as they grew in complexity and the need for cross-development with PC increased. But still, those "upgrades" are always relatively minor or cosmetic, and don't affect backwards compatibility.

Radon said:

In reference to Microsoft's business model of service(rumored) with X-One, it just seems that in the long run customers would be over-paying than compared to owning a PC.

Again, that's a byproduct of the times, which would be unapplicable in the classic console era.

Radon said:

PC parts are also getting cheaper, especially when the next line of cards from Radeon is around the corner. Don't mean to use the biased example but just saying the parts that already rival the technology will become even more affordable.

...and by that time the next gen of consoles will be ready to kick the butt of the new PCs, that are not yet as cheap ;-)

Radon said:

On the other hand, not everyone can just jump on the best new thing of the month as you've mentioned. I dont know, consoles in modern-era just seem sketchy.

They certainly are more PC-like than in the past, and increasingly tied to "cloud gaming", if that's what you mean. Again, that's a byproduct of the time, which however didn't alter the consoles' role: dedicated, high bang-for-the-buck gaming machines.

As the best proof that this case was never settled in favor of either the PC or consoles, you can find "PCs will just DESTROY consoles!" or "Consoles will TOTALLY PWN PCs!" discussions already from the early "Multimedia" era, if not even before that, in the Colecovision era (*gasp* it could be upgraded to a computer!).

However, there's ONE undisputable advantage of consoles, at least for software distrubutors and developers: they curb software piracy much, much more effectively than PCs. In the cartridge era, it was practically inexistent (only exception: Famiclones). In the optical disc era, only the Playstation I was successfully hacked IIRC, to the point of making CD-Rs of its disks worthwhile. PSP, XBox, Wii etc. are just too much work to be worth the effort.

schwerpunk said:

Really, I'm surprised a simple PC stand-in, made for plugging into a TV hasn't swept the marketplace by now. But I guess those have existed for a while now.

Fear not, my Childe, for thy quest has cometh to its end ;-)

[darknation]

looks like a really derpy johnny 5.

[Clonehunter]

I'm surprised that Microsoft didn't try to do this for their remote with all this media TV stuff they're doing: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fc/Intellivision-Console-Set.png

[Radon]

Maes said:

These were really only an artifact of consoles becoming -effectively- PCs in disguise (surprise surprise, that happened without shame already from the first Xbox!), as they grew in complexity and the need for cross-development with PC increased. But still, those "upgrades" are always relatively minor or cosmetic, and don't affect backwards compatibility.



Again, that's a byproduct of the times, which would be unapplicable in the classic console era.



...and by that time the next gen of consoles will be ready to kick the butt of the new PCs, that are not yet as cheap ;-)



They certainly are more PC-like than in the past, and increasingly tied to "cloud gaming", if that's what you mean. Again, that's a byproduct of the time, which however didn't alter the consoles' role: dedicated, high bang-for-the-buck gaming machines.

As the best proof that this case was never settled in favor of either the PC or consoles, you can find "PCs will just DESTROY consoles!" or "Consoles will TOTALLY PWN PCs!" discussions already from the early "Multimedia" era, if not even before that, in the Colecovision era (*gasp* it could be upgraded to a computer!).

However, there's ONE undisputable advantage of consoles, at least for software distrubutors and developers: they curb software piracy much, much more effectively than PCs. In the cartridge era, it was practically inexistent (only exception: Famiclones). In the optical disc era, only the Playstation I was successfully hacked IIRC, to the point of making CD-Rs of its disks worthwhile. PSP, XBox, Wii etc. are just too much work to be worth the effort.



Fear not, my Childe, for thy quest has cometh to its end ;-)

Well you make some good points, can't argue much at all there.

I guess it's time to remove that 2000 era bad taste from the mouth..

[Acid]

The Xbox-One will probably be incompatible with current gen headsets, including high end brands...

[DooM_RO]

Wtf is with this Kinect bullshit?! Not only does it look like HAL9000 but it also reminds me of the telescreens from 1984.

[Radon]

Everyday it seems Microsoft just breaks another bone.

[Clonehunter]

DooM_RO said:

Wtf is with this Kinect bullshit?! Not only does it look like HAL9000 but it also reminds me of the telescreens from 1984.

Unfortunately I doubt the kinect will sing 'Daisy', but maybe there's a game where you can dance to it.

[schwerpunk]

"Dance, monkey! Dance for your 'chievos!"
"You would get even more if you 'shared' this with facebook."

We'll all be slaves before long. Calling it here.

[Quasar]

I wonder why it needs the Kinect always connected - is M$$$ going to periodically scan your living room for unauthorized players via facial recognition software and pause the game until everyone in the room ponies up $60?

[esselfortium]

Quasar said:

I wonder why it needs the Kinect always connected - is M$$$ going to periodically scan your living room for unauthorized players via facial recognition software and pause the game until everyone in the room ponies up $60?

Quite possibly.

Oh, and don’t forget: Microsoft recently filed for a patent that uses the Kinect to spy on you, and block movies from playing if there are too many people sitting in front of your TV.

[Technician]

This fucking system is bewildering and terrifying.

Good job, Microsoft.

[Mechadon]

esselfortium said:

Quite possibly.

Hahaha, oh wow. There are some pretty horrible "features" being touted for this stupid thing, but this by far takes the cake.

[Technician]

Microsoft has issued a patent that will award players - or should I say viewers - achievements for watching TV.

[printz]

esselfortium said:

Quite possibly.

Newsflash: you don't have to buy this thing that spies on you. I know I won't.

[esselfortium]

printz said:

Newsflash: you don't have to buy this thing that spies on you. I know I won't.

No kidding? I'm not either

[TimeOfDeath]

I'm gonna buy it and only use it while naked.

[Quasar]

MS can go into the pr0n business after this, with all the wankery that will go on in front of those things unawares. Filtering out the inevitable underage content may be a challenge but I'm sure it's nothing the algorithmic masters of robotic vision cannot subdue.

[Clonehunter]

You know, maybe they're trying to make this flop. Like, there's some big endgame scenario A that if their console flops hard event B will occur, like some sort of massive insurance claim?

I dunno, there was a Batman Cartoon episode where a guy named Kaiser purposely builds a Casino that rips off of the Joker's fame, all so that the Joker could blow it up out of some sort of Jealousy and once the Casino is destroyed the guy who built it would then collect some sort of insurance on the building after it was destroyed.

Microsoft is Kaiser, and certainly what they're doing sounds very much like an evil German ruler.