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hardcore_gamer

Doom engine Vs Build engine

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Build got pretty ridiculous if you wanted to create anything complex. Here's how to build the sliding doors I liked so much in tech maps. Hackish sector manipulation was the rule there. If you didn't want triangular ends in the doors you could invert them, but then you had to leave a gap of 2 between the corners of the doors so the stupid editor didn't merge the vertices.

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Aliotroph? said:

Build got pretty ridiculous if you wanted to create anything complex. Here's how to build the sliding doors I liked so much in tech maps. Hackish sector manipulation was the rule there. If you didn't want triangular ends in the doors you could invert them, but then you had to leave a gap of 2 between the corners of the doors so the stupid editor didn't merge the vertices.

Jesus, those make polyobjects seem ridiculously simple.

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Gez said:

Didn't CodeImp name it Doom Builder because he wanted a Doom editor with the same kind of work flow as the Build editor had? I think I read that somewhere.



the build editor was amazing back then, i posted earlier what stuff i and a friend did with it, pretty intuitively.

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I know this thread is old but I was looking for a thread like this to say my opinion on the matter.

 

Build engine is more capable compared to Doom engine, BUT it also came out later than Doom engine, so you see what's going on here. Both engines are great for their times and both popularized 3D first person shooter gaming. Personally I play games and mods on source ports of both. G/Zdoom for doom, and eduke32(and jfbuild) for build engine.

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The Build engine is clearly more advanced, but I always felt one of the most important aspects of a FPS, movement, was more fluid in Doom engine games.

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I actually have a bit of a bias against build engine games, i can't describe what it is, they just looks ugly for me. Like the Doom Engine has a more solid look to it. Build engine has some more advanced features, but you can still do so much with ID Tech 1 i choose it out of personal preference.

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I once saw a video of someone "speedrunning" Duke Nukem 3D. That was a total glitchfest, that guy didn't play, he was just abusing engine bugs to do stuff he wasn't supposed to do. It left a lasting impression on me, that's not a sign of a well written game engine.

 

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Build had jumping, but it always felt off. Granted it's hard to do jumping in any FPS game, but it feels so wonky in the Build games. Even ZDoom's jumping is lightyears better.

 

Also, EDuke32 mouse is horrendous.

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17 minutes ago, R4L said:

Also, EDuke32 mouse is horrendous.

 

It is, indeed. And my impression is that it has only gotten worse recently. I switched back to a two year old version of the engine after I didn't manage to configure the latest version to my liking. I'd love to play those games again but the mouse implementation is beyond horrible and one of the worst I've ever seen in an FPS game.

 

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Posted (edited)

I thought the thread was about doom engine vs build engine, not g/zdoom vs eduke32.

 

Also remember that doom community is much bigger than duke nukem 3d community, there are 100 times more mods out there for doom than for duke nukem, which means 100 times more effort goes to achieving great stuff with doom than duke nukem. (Just an example, I mean how many doom engine ports are out there? and how many duke nukem ports are out there ?)So naturally, in the end, it may seem that doom engine is better than build engine. While really build is more capable, though it came out later, so both are great for their times.

 

A fair comparison would be comparing doom/doom2 vs dukenukem3D/blood, not advanced doom ports vs not so much developed duke nukem ports.

Edited by roboticmehdi2

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Posted (edited)

Reading over the post I made exactly five years ago on this thread (strange coincidence) it's clear I was talking about the vanilla incarnations of each engine, and I think others were too, at least initially. I'm not sure at what point the thread got diverted.

 

I still maintain my previous stance that while Build has some nice features, it's a lot less stable than id Tech 1.

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15 hours ago, Jerry.C said:

 

It is, indeed. And my impression is that it has only gotten worse recently. I switched back to a two year old version of the engine after I didn't manage to configure the latest version to my liking. I'd love to play those games again but the mouse implementation is beyond horrible and one of the worst I've ever seen in an FPS game.

 

 

Not just in EDuke32, it's pretty bad in Megaton as well, could they not make the game register small mouse movement...

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Posted (edited)

I always figured the biggest advantage of the Build Engine was in how well it managed to pull off the impression of 3D. Things like allowing rooms over rooms, perpendicular flat sprites, silent teleporters, and the like. It may have had the same limitation of one floor and one ceiling per sector but it could fool its way more effectively into making you think there are sectors stacked on top of one another. Well, and horizontally moving sectors of course.

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3 hours ago, Caffeine Freak said:

I still maintain my previous stance that while Build has some nice features, it's a lot less stable than id Tech 1.

 

... which is hardly surprising if you just look at the code. While Doom may have its share of problems, the code overall looks fine, although dated.

But if you dare to look at the Build engine's source you will find something entirely different. I haven't seen much source code in my life that is this unreadable and I heard the same from many programmers who took a look at it. It takes no rocket science to come to the conclusion that code that can't be read also can't be screened for implementation errors and the results are quite inevitable.

 

 

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On 6/16/2013 at 1:53 PM, Technician said:

We won't see a Blood port anytime soon.

You can blame Atari for that.

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Posted (edited)

@Technician if you like double pistols, melee weapons, TNT sticks, machineguns, shotguns, flame throwers, crazy mood (like in blood) play Killing Floor 2, specially now, when all monsters are turned into circus freaks monsters, play on circus map and have fun. (I only miss monks from Blood). In KF2 you got gorefast monsters, which summer version looks similar to Blood 2 monster.

 

 

EDIT: I'm a fan of BLOOD 1

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On 6/16/2018 at 1:56 AM, MrD!zone said:

You can blame Atari for that.

What about BloodGDX, isn't that technically a port?

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In regards to Build being less stable than id Tech 1...keep in mind that the engine was developed by one person, who was several years younger (late teens) than the id boys.

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