Capellan Posted July 17, 2013 Map15 Berkowitz delivers more of his signature monotextured square levels, this one separated into a series of set piece encounters. I'd rate most of these encounters as being as bland as the levels visual design, but the final area does up the ante a bit. I still escaped on my first try, though - simply ignoring all the monsters (other than the two arachnotrons near the exit0 to scale the ziggurat and get the yellow key. I gave Mr Cyberdemon a wave and sprinted past him: open the door, slide back, watch a rocket fly into the exit room, follow it in. Done :) Consciously made no effort to look for the secret exit. 0 Share this post Link to post
Steve D Posted July 17, 2013 Map17 (Continuous) – No Escape by Antoni Chan – Kills – 100, Items – 77, Secret – 100. Time 26:41. End Health 158, Armor 158. Death Count - Zero Map17 (Pistol Start) – No Escape by Antoni Chan – Kills – 99, Items – 66, Secret – 100. Time 24:10. End Health 200, Armor 200. Death Count - 1 This is actually a map from Antoni’s 4 or 5-map episode Escape, and it not only predates RoC, it was done before RoC was even announced as a project. Some of the unusual features, such as the roaming Cyberdemon, are part of the Escape storyline. The basic idea of Escape, IIRC, involved the Space Marine busting out of prison on Phobos. The player had to fight their way up from the lowest level of prison to the top, thus the elevator exit at the end. Each map ended at the elevator to the next highest floor. The Cyberdemon was the evil jailor, and he wandered outside for several maps until you had to fight him at the end, and in some of the maps, he was quite dangerous depending on the window height. Thus, he was more dangerous in the lower levels than the upper ones. I got in touch with Antoni after I downloaded Escape from the AOL MacDoom forums and was basically blown away. Escape was the biggest thing in MacDoom since EEE-Vile 1 & 2, and it had more maps and was more refined than EEE-Vile. Imagine my surprise to learn that this MacDoom master mapper was 15 years old. ;D Basically, I’m saying that Antoni’s Escape wad was far and away the best multi-map effort by any MacDoomer up to that time. But as Tarnsman noted in alfonzo’s latest playthrough, MacDoom mapping ’96 was like PC mapping ’94, and some of the flaws in Antoni’s game are easier to see now than they were then. I played continuous first, with somewhat reckless abandon thanks to the free Megasphere and whatnot at the start. The opening battle with all the hitscanners and Imps is the best fight in the map, and somewhat dangerous if you go kamikaze, which I did. I soon woke up all the heavies Antoni held in reserve and lost a lot of health, but got through it. On pistol start, I handled the combat more cautiously, and was able to destroy the monsters in detail by attacking the groups sequentially. It was actually much easier that way. The side battle with the PE reveal and the rooms full of Imps, Chaingunners and Hell Knights was pretty good, too, and I couldn’t help noticing the spectacular alignment of Comptall in the Imp/Chaingunner/Caco room in Sector 37. Look at the corners – you’d think Antoni was auto-aligning in DB2. ;) This area is where you first encounter harassing fire from Herr Cyb, and if you spend too much time on platforms higher than the windowsill, it’s possible to get nailed by rockets. That happened to me during testing, but ATM I don’t remember if Antony raised the windowsills to prevent this. You get the blue Key and an optional Blue Armor here. After this comes the infamous “Run” room, where Antoni tries to sucker you into going kamikaze against well-entrenched Chaingunners and Sergeants. Thanks to the Zerks at beginning and end, it can be done, but it’s not advisable. You can also grab an easily-accessed secret Megasphere in the Sergeant shack. I do like the darkness and the merged glowing sectors. There’s trivial combat and – gag! – a maze in the Light Goggles room. You then teleport into the red key room, which offers a series of fights that can be a challenge on UV thanks to the Arachnotrons. As you can see in alfonzo’s playthrough, it’s just Hell Knights on the platforms on HMP. Climbing the spiral staircase to get the red key is, as others have noted, not fun, but back in those days, we were still doing all these non-fun things because we thought it was really cool. ;D At this point the map has basically run out of steam. You’re dragged through a series of sloggy fights leading to a switch that reveals the Archie, and in the process you find an unavoidable Megasphere in front of said switch. The Archie fight, back in the day, was terrifying for me. This time it was a trivial BFG blast on continuous, and an easy rocket kill on pistol start thanks to the thoughtfully-provided cover. No Jim Bagrow Map04 here! ;D After killing the Baron and Mancs in the exit area, I decided to kill Herr Cyb on continuous. I also picked up those damnable secret blur spheres Antoni is so fond of. This is how I suffered my only death on pistol start, getting hit by Herr Cyb while trying to pick up all the rockets after grabbing the Blur Sphere. One final note: I said before that The Flower Trap in Map09 was a Variation On A Theme By Antoni Chan. Well, it’s in this very map, when you pick up the RL and get mobbed by Spectres. Pistol-starters will have to switch fast, while continuous players have nothing to worry about. Overall, this is a solid, competent map, which in itself raised it far above its rivals back in ’96. The biggest problem in this map and others by Antoni is the fight design, which tends to set-pieces and shooting gallery encounters rather than flowing, multi-directional combat. Not all the time but most of the time. Nonetheless, this map and its companions will always be held in high regard by me as the first MacDoom mapset which could really rival good maps from the PC mappers. 0 Share this post Link to post
cannonball Posted July 17, 2013 MAP17 - “No Escape” by Antoni Chan Compared to maps02 and 11, this is flatter, blander and more primitive and frankly after the initial skirmish which is nullified by the easy to spot secret, this map just becomes boring. I didn't take one hit after picking the rocket launcher room. The repetitive "ssg"ing and dull bland corridors really dragged and the cyber which was hopeless at troubling me from the windows, I just went meh and put it out of it's misery. I preferred the last map to this as at least I didn't fall asleep half way through. Sorry Steve :) 0 Share this post Link to post
Veinen Posted July 17, 2013 Map 16: The Wolf's Hour What's this? A perfectly normal Jim Bagrow map? Why yes, yes it is. Still not a great map but it doesn't include any fuck you -moments which automatically means it's better than the other two Bagrow maps. Mixed feelings about the starting area as I do like the slime parts of it but on the other hand it has these random looking structures that are all textured differently which doesn't make much sense. Can't see shit in the tunnels so looks don't exactly matter much. Cave area looks very boring and there's very little in the way of detailing. That's pretty much it. But like I said the gameplay is surprisingly not hideous but actually pretty damn tame. The start punishes reckless like me with death but with careful playing it's not that hard. Like the Archvile placement here, avoiding him requires fast movements but it's possible. So far so good but then we hit the tunnels and the ball is dropped. Tunnel combat generally sucks and this is no exception to that rule. After the initial surprise 99 players out of 100 will be ready for the Chaingunner behind the next corner and the all the challenge is lost. That one player with the memory of a goldfish gets surprised every time but sadly I'm not that one person so I disapprove of this section of the level. Well, maybe I'm exaggerating a bit here since new players might not yet be accustomed to doom ambush techniques but for veteran players this is super standard stuff. And maybe things were different in 1996 so old-timers might disagree with me. The cave part regains some of the momentum lost in the tunnels but it's over in a hurry. The "finale" of 10 imps is amusing at best and as I was certain that there must be more than that I went for the unmarked exit switch and exited by accident. An average map overall. Enjoyed some parts and disliked others pretty evenly. And looks like that's it for Bagrow for this wad. Didn't really like his contributions but I gotta hand it to him in that he's had by far the toughest maps of the set so far. Mostly for the wrong reasons but nevertheless they were tough. He's the only mapper to have killed me in all of their respective maps. FDA. Map 17: No Escape This map had potential to be a really good map but it doesn't manage to quite get there. The biggest reason is the massive amounts of health it hands to the player. The megasphere secrets are very obvious and you'd be hard pressed not to find them if you're not consciously avoiding secrets altogether plus it's not like the player would be starving for health without them either. Also the ssg is given a tad too early an too easily. The first fight for example would be so much better if there was no ssg or ssg/little ammo/all the monsters wake up instantly. Took a shitload of damage in the blue key area by chaingun fire but since I was pretty much in full health it wasn't too problematic. I wonder what does the author think the players do when a very dark chamber with the word RUN written on the floor is introduced? That's just suspicious and my first instinct sure as hell is not to run :p Then there's this short tunnel-like maze and I think my stance about those is pretty clear by now. Red key area is cool I guess, no complaints there. RL ambush is very cool, I got cornered quickly and I thought I was going to be eaten alive but somehow I managed to escape without taking any damage. The spiral part was a snoozer and the following Archvile feat Hell Knight trio fight was not very problematic either. That Manc trap in the end would be better if the yellow door closed behind the player quicker trapping the player inside. But that sounds like a move out of Jim Bagrow's book of Pissing off The Player 101 that I've been bashing here so adamantly so I dunno about that either. The Cyber could have been more of a threat too but since this map was apparently ripped straight from some other wad where such placement makes sense, I can't really complain about that point much. The looks are very inoffensive throughout the map but nothing really stands out either and there's really not much to comment in that regard. But overall it's an alright map that suffers from excessive health pickups. Also suffers from unmarkedexititis like many other maps in this wad. Looks like there was an epidemic of that back in '96. FDA 0 Share this post Link to post
Steve D Posted July 17, 2013 cannonball said:I preferred the last map to this as at least I didn't fall asleep half way through. Sorry Steve :) No problem, cannonball. I agree that the last series of fights was quite boring. I'm beginning to think that one of the problems in many of these maps is that we were not only inexperienced mappers, but also inexperienced players. For example, I've never played through the IWAD on UV. I'm pretty sure I played it on either HMP or HNTR, and there are several maps, such as IWAD Map10, that I've never beaten on UV pistol-start. Last try, about 10 years ago. ;D I always run out of ammo before I even meet the Cyb. Damn you, Sandy Petersen! :D It's also possible that the overabundance of health and ammo made it easier to play the maps very aggressively. One way or another, many of these maps are too easy on UV. Not exactly your E3M8, is it? ;D 0 Share this post Link to post
Magnusblitz Posted July 17, 2013 Still behind... MAP13: Bloodlands Kinda boring and blocky, and suffers from "each room has it's own monster type" syndrome. Here's a room of Cacodemons! Here's a room of Imps! Here's a room of Revenants! Blah. The yellow door area is the only area that stands out as decently interesting. I grabbed the soulsphere by dropping on it from above, is the tree supposed to block me? I'm not playing with "infinitely tall objects" but I figure anyone in 1996 would. The voodoo doll exit was a change-of-pace, at least. 2/5 MAP14: DIE HARD Blech. This one really shows it's era, with waaaay too high height differences, and "different texture every room" mentality. The texture changes aren't subtle, either. Aside from the somewhat-cool conference room, everything is pretty ugly... I wiped out three times early on, taking up the super-tall lifts to the top only to immediately get killed by all the hitscanners due to lack of cover. Yeah, screw that. I just evaded that area and turns out I didn't really miss anything, oh well. It's possible to miss the red key trigger and fall into an inescapable pit. With no damage. Hooray! My favorite part was opening the succession of Pestov Platforms in such a way that the exit was between me and the Spider Mastermind that was staring off into the distance, blissfully unaware of my presence. I decided to let it continue on untouched. 1/5 MAP15: Infestation For a map called "Infestation" I was expecting... well, an infestation. Maybe a bunch of hell flesh everywhere? Maybe that wasn't popular back in 1996. Ah well. This one also loves its far-too-big height differences and huge rooms, split up by weirdly thin spindly corridors. As others have said, the size of the rooms makes things laughably easy. On the other hand, it's somewhat entrancing to see the entire "bridge" in the main section become a lift. And why bother putting a BFG in a secret when you just give the BFG to the player in the next area anyways? 2/5 MAP31: Mansion Well, it's basically a MYHOUSE.WAD map. If you've seen one, you've seen 'em all. Nothing to set this one apart. Oh, and you can't return once you drop down the chute to the exits, so hope you found the switch to open up the secret exit. 2/5 MAP32: Nowhere to Hide Despite the name, I found plenty of places to hide. It's an arena-style map, which is somewhat laughably easy by today's standards. Sorry, opening up a trap with 4 revenants into a huge circle doesn't cut it. It also suffers from the "way too big" problem, as it becomes quite easy to dodge everything and creates a somewhat funny moment when a HUGE wall SLOOOWLY comes down to reveal... a few revenants and mancubi. Oooh, scary! 2/5 0 Share this post Link to post
Kristian Ronge Posted July 17, 2013 Map 18 -- Dead Radio I like the theming and texturing of this grey/silver techbase with some nukeage base thrown in. It's simplistic but done competently and in good taste. The action is a bit slower than the preceding maps, and takes a while to build here, which is a welcome breather after the rather intense series of maps we've seen since map 13 and onward. You fight mostly minions throughout the map, though towards the end there's a plethora of larger monsters to deal with. Progression is fine apart from two things: the double-switch past the reactor room (I had no idea what I'd just activated, but no biggie as I got the blue key at the same time), and that you can aquire both the blue and red keys without having seen either door. In the case of the blue key, I assume it's even likely, given that you open access to the BK door by jumping through a window into a reactor and ooze below; I didn't even realize you should do that until I saw the blue armour down there by chance! Also, had I not run off to the red key door early on I would not know where it was and would surely have scratched my head for a bit. Backtracking aptly involves at least some new fights (the Revenants, Lost Souls and Barons on lowering pillars) to keep things from getting boring. Some small design "flaws": There's a side room next to the lowering Baron pillars which seems to serve no function at all(?), it was a bit of a hassle to chase down all the monsters roaming around on the ground in the large reactor room (that whole area is a bit dull to be honest), the number of rad suits given in the swastika nukeage room is insulting, and 6/7 secrets is the maximum (one secret sector is impossible to get into). I had to search really hard to find the plasma gun secret... Side note: I was very disappointed that jumping from sectors 117/122 onto the big light indentations in the wall did not reveal any secrets. ;-) --3/5 0 Share this post Link to post
NuMetalManiak Posted July 18, 2013 MAP18 Dead Radio They're gonna pay for bad radio reception they gave me here. I have no idea why but the first area up to the first elevator reminded me of Twilight Lab (Memento Mori MAP21). It had a nice tech theme and combined hitscanner-imp-hellknight sort-of combat. I somehow managed to kill the hellknight on the large block in two rockets, a rare occurance. Three secret sectors here, but Steve unfortunately screwed me with an unreachable secret sector. I then head to the left side to greet more dipshit shotgun smartass retards (that's what I call them now) then head to the south side of the level. South side: The area with the plus-shaped structures had a few sneaky deaf monsters hiding. I actually use the single shotgun again, to take out the corner monsters. I like the vats of nukage with crushers in places, kinda cool. Cacos lurked nearby in the waste, they gave me a headache especially in the southeast part of the map. I handled most of the enemies there, but two cacodemons played sneaky when I was getting the blue key, they caught me off guard after pressing two switches (what do they do anyways?) and getting the key. The plus-shaped structures lowered to reveal revenants and skulls, nothing a rocket launcher could handle. The red key area I remember being rather ugly, so whipping out a BFG handled most of the entourage of enemies, then chaingun. After a bout of barons after the key I proceed to the north side. North side: Interesting reveal of mancubi behind cages as I round the bend. I kill one then open the next doors. Question, why the voodoo dolls? They don't serve much purpose unless I want to kill myself with them (and why would I?). The teleporter led me to nukage, a nice dick move there, but I digress. This area, again, cacodemon usage was made perfectly enough to be problematic. As were hellknights. Some monsters teleported to the nukage as well further causing rather frantic fights. There really is no need to have that many rad suits here though. Puzzle-wise, this was the area I know most. South, North, West, East. Heretic, in the demo, managed to kill the north archvile before it teleports. I did the same thing after a few tries, using the BFG for my run. Clearing out the monsters wasn't too bad afterwards. When approaching the exit teleporter, the last two (reachable) secret sectors show up (another possible dick move? As someone could easily run to the teleporter and miss them?) Then it was kill mancubi and grab YK and exit. Overall, combat here is better than Steve's other maps, particularly cacodemon usage, and the visuals were neat (loving those vats). One thing I should mention is that there are way too many radiation suits for a level here. I only needed about 2 or 3 really. Final Time 7:24. The start of MAP19, ugh. Why? 0 Share this post Link to post
Obsidian Posted July 18, 2013 I've been getting behind quite a lot, so I guess I'll drop out. Not enough time on the computer nowdays. :/ 0 Share this post Link to post
dobu gabu maru Posted July 18, 2013 MAP18: Ballsy choice of texture here from Duff; the grating (FLAT4) is a hard one to use in my opinion, as its natural flatness doesn’t make it look… appealing. It's alright in some rooms but its overuse tends to drain on the visuals of the map for me, and could have definitely benefitted from more variety (for instance, the dark sand in the greener area is a good complement). The map also isn’t nearly as impressive as Splatterhouse from a visual and layout perspective, but it does have some golden nuggets of gameplay that stand out. For instance, the revenant inside the blue key room is a brilliant addition as it forces the player to backpedal onto the crusher ledge which makes for an entertaining few seconds. Additionally, the use of a single lift line to pull down the whole walkway in that room is a wise implementation too since it allows the hitscanners in the nukage to not only attack all at once but to switch sides as well. The mancubus trap past the red door is probably my favorite nefarious trap of the megawad, as it creates an instantly dynamic arena that’s a lot of fun to work out on the fly. I felt it was unfortunate that the very next (and last) area was the four floor nukage room as it was quite boring on a whole, although it honestly had a few great ideas penned in—the AV was smartly used, allowing the player to observe where it was by where the snarls were coming from and plan a strategy (I switched to rockets knowing I could kill it that way before it got a nuke off on me), and the HKs/baron are a pretty good idea as they force the player into the green goo since they dominate the 64-wide platforms. Unfortunately, the abundance of radsuits means the player can lure them into the toxic sludge where they will be harmlessly eliminated, and can reduce the threat of the AV fight the same way. Better than Etiquette, but still no Splatterhouse in my opinion. Looking forward to the next one. 0 Share this post Link to post
Demon of the Well Posted July 18, 2013 Map 17 -- No Escape - 100% Kills / 100% Secrets I'm not at all surprised to see SteveD say that this is actually an excerpt from a mapset significantly older than RoC itself. It's very '94/'95, looking more primitive than most other RoC maps except for the poorest of Berkowitz's efforts (e.g. map 07). I don't think I would have recognized it as an Antoni Chan map if I hadn't been informed otherwise, in fact, as his vaguely representationalist style is largely absent, here, although I suppose the spaces are generally kind of small, like in his other maps. The one aspect to No Escape I do recognize as a ChanMap trait is not a particularly good thing, that being the way each area seems to have a texture scheme largely divorced from that of all the others. As aforesaid, in contrast to Chan's other maps, this building doesn't really communicate the impression that it's supposed to be any particular thing other than a generalized series of spaces where you shoot monsters. There is a very vague hint of some kind of narrative with the cyberdemon who bombards one part of the building from well outside its walls, but as to the story Steve describes, I don't think I'd have pegged this as being part of a prison on Phobos. Apart from being boxy and lackadaisically laid out, there is also a very pronounced video gamey-ness to it (e.g. the "Run" room), which is something I personally generally find distasteful/offputting, in this map and in many others. Going back and looking at the automap, it strikes me that, whatever the map's original concept might have been, in layout in turned out very much like a 'MYHOUSE' WAD. Unfortunately, I can't remember much about the action in it, either, which shores up the MYHOUSE impression--all that it really is is a lot of roomclearing from thresholds, over and over. Even scenarios that are ostensibly supposed to be handled a different way generally tend to end up going this way, either because the rooms are too small to enter and fight from within or because the intended tactic is clearly unideal to anyone with half a brain (e.g. the "Run" room ,again). I do remember thinking that the arch-vile by the yellow access card was fairly well-placed, and that the cyberdemon was a potentially interesting idea not executed very well (since there is really only one window he's likely to fire at, though he can technically see/hit two from where he is), especially if you jump through the windows to fight him (another aspect seen in Chan's other maps, now that I think about it), as your reward for doing so is a handful of rockets and some useless blur spheres. For the most part, though, playing this felt more like passing the time than playing a game of DooM, if you know what I mean. 0 Share this post Link to post
Jayextee Posted July 18, 2013 MAP18 - DEAD RADIO by Steve Duff Steve went to some effort to make this appear to be a fully-functional base of some kind, with many moving parts and scrolling textures and things. And for the most part, it's not too bad. There are a few gripes, such as the blue key door being unintuitive to find, and the yellow key nexus starting off strong but turning into a switch hunt; which needed probably another Archvile to reinvigorate the battlefield. I didn't much like the hitscanners down in the nukage of the blue key area, either. I couldn't see 'em (and the fact that the walkway is a lift isn't so obvious at first) but they were taking potshots at me - but to be honest this was the only real threat in the level, which was fairly easy to plod through. I did like the red key room though. It looked neat. 0 Share this post Link to post
Steve D Posted July 18, 2013 Hurricyclone said:MAP18 Dead Radio I handled most of the enemies there, but two cacodemons played sneaky when I was getting the blue key, they caught me off guard after pressing two switches (what do they do anyways?) One opens the path to the Soulsphere, and the other lowers the Megasphere platform. Amazingly, neither of them opens the path to the blue door, which would be the obvious purpose of any switch in the blue key room! ;D I solved that problem by having a walking trigger in the doorway to open that path. And yes, the Zerk and Green Armor "secrets" at the end of the nukage puzzle is, in fact, a true jagoff move on my part. ;) 0 Share this post Link to post
Steve D Posted July 18, 2013 Kristian Ronge said:Map 18 -- Dead Radio the swastika nukeage room ROFL! I love that description. And to think there's no Wolfies in this map, but they'll be back soon! ;) That swastika formation was purely accidental, too. 0 Share this post Link to post
NuMetalManiak Posted July 18, 2013 SteveD said:the Zerk and Green Armor "secrets" at the end of the nukage puzzle is, in fact, a true jagoff move on my part. I knew it! Although it's not much of a jagoff in comparison to that awful start of MAP19. That being said, Port Fury is one of the coolest names for a map in my opinion, probably since I like playing Fury3 as much as I like playing Doom. No inspirations from that game in MAP19, just saying that I'm a fan of Fury3. 0 Share this post Link to post
Steve D Posted July 18, 2013 Hurricyclone said:Although it's not much of a jagoff in comparison to that awful start of MAP19. That being said, Port Fury is one of the coolest names for a map in my opinion, probably since I like playing Fury3 as much as I like playing Doom. No inspirations from that game in MAP19, just saying that I'm a fan of Fury3. The start of Map19 can get you with the hitscanners and some uncomfortable item placement, if I'm reading you right. The other night, just for fun, I got killed 5 times in a row on pistol start, but that wasn't an official play for the club. It's one of the reasons for a Zerk at the end of Map18. Going in at 40% on continuous would be rough. Glad you like the title, and I will claim credit for that one, unlike Machine Gun Etiquette. I'll have to take a look on YouTube to see what Fury3 is all about. Never heard of it, but that's because pretty much thje only thing I play is Doom. ;D 0 Share this post Link to post
NuMetalManiak Posted July 18, 2013 Random trivia: I'm actually a better keyboard player at Fury3 than I am a keyboard player at Doom! 0 Share this post Link to post
Suitepee Posted July 18, 2013 http://www.twitch.tv/johnsuitepee I'm just about to start part 1 of my livestream coverage of this wad for the thread, so feel free to come on down if you want to. I will post a write-up summary of the livestream afterwards! EDIT: Thanks to all those who came (especially SteveD), will do a writeup with on-demand links tomorrow. 0 Share this post Link to post
Jayextee Posted July 18, 2013 Oh, I can remember Port Fury. Ends up with a bunch of Wolfenstein soldiers, doesn't it? Wow, gonna be fun... like taking my eyes out and using a cheese-grater on them, then feeding the resulting ocular jam into my ass. Let's hope my memory doesn't serve me so well on this one... ;) 0 Share this post Link to post
Steve D Posted July 18, 2013 Jayextee said:Oh, I can remember Port Fury. Ends up with a bunch of Wolfenstein soldiers, doesn't it? Wow, gonna be fun... like taking my eyes out and using a cheese-grater on them, then feeding the resulting ocular jam into my ass. Let's hope my memory doesn't serve me so well on this one... ;) I love Wolfies!!!! :D You'll see plenty of them in Map19, but it actually ends in a big nukage room under fire from Chaingunners, Revvies and Hell Knights. ;) 0 Share this post Link to post
Jayextee Posted July 18, 2013 Ohhhhh, I remember the one. Yeah, you're right. Ffffffuck. 0 Share this post Link to post
Steve D Posted July 18, 2013 Hurricyclone said:Random trivia: I'm actually a better keyboard player at Fury3 than I am a keyboard player at Doom! I didn't remember that you're a keyboarder. No mouse at all? 0 Share this post Link to post
cannonball Posted July 18, 2013 MAP18 - “Dead Radio” by Steve Duff I like maps which are unapologetically grey, it looks sterile which I kind of like in some instances. The green section complimented it quite nicely, no wacky clashing, just clean. The layout was a bit suspect though with the connectivity being primitive and leading to a lot of backtracking. The secrets were a little strange also as they appeared to just open up along the way rather than you having to do anything. The cross slime section was a little dull but the rest of the gameplay was pretty solid with some pretty cool looking areas to boot. It's an all right map, better than the last few. 0 Share this post Link to post
Kristian Ronge Posted July 18, 2013 SteveD said: ROFL! I love that description. I call it as I see it. ;-) Map 19 -- Port Fury This map turns up the heat a bit again! It's split into two separate parts. The first part, which is good fun, houses all of the (sort of easy-to-find) secrets, and some delightful action. It feels, and, to an extent, looks, like something out of.. Plutonia maybe? You're under assault from the get-go and there's not a dull moment. The map loses a bit of momentum in the second part, mostly because it's much too empty, playflow is not as good, and what fighting there is, aside from the excellent and very bitchy last room which is sure to be insane with fast monsters, isn't all that interesting. You run through a vast outdoor area featuring a nice attempt at realistic locales (the titular port, featuring a warehouse with loading docks, and a ship) while being sniped by well-placed chaingunners and ... uh, SS soldiers? Makes little sense, but oh well. The fighting inside the warehouse felt almost boring, maybe that has to do with the first part of the map being so intense? Ammo balance is very good -- for kicks, I played through without using the plasma rifle at all, and only using the RL after I had picked it up at the warehouse, and I had just enough ammo throughout (a bit of a surplus at the very end, that's okay). This one hovers somewhere between a 3 and a 4 for me... I'll be generous, because the bits I liked were quite fun. Side note: WTF is up with that death pit in the plasma rifle secret? (yes, I obviously fell in on my first playthrough) --4/5 PS: I followed parts of your map 1-14 playthrough tonight, Suitepee, thank you for that. Fun to watch! 0 Share this post Link to post
Steve D Posted July 18, 2013 Jayextee said:Ohhhhh, I remember the one. Yeah, you're right. Ffffffuck. You might've been thinking about Map27, which is all kinds of hideous. 2nd map I ever finished, it ends after you teleport into the EEE-Vile room where, among other dangers, Wolfies snipe you from a room above, and that room leads to the exit. I'm gonna get hammered on this map, but it does contain some rooms I still find interesting. We'll see if I'm the only one who likes The Big Stone3 Platformer Room. ;D 0 Share this post Link to post
Steve D Posted July 18, 2013 Kristian Ronge said:Map 19 -- Port Fury Side note: WTF is up with that death pit in the plasma rifle secret? That was a total Jagoff Dick Move on my part -- not merely jagoff or dick, but both. Just a cheap kill on the player, because it's easy to fall in. It was one of the first things I fixed in the revision because I fell in, and just like anyone else, I didn't like it. :D As for the Wolfies, I just love Wolfies. To some players it's like farting in Doom Church to use them, to others it's kinda cool. I like to have weak machine gunners who aren't as dangerous as Chaingun Charlie, and Wolfies are the only ones available in Vanilla Doom. As I go through the revision process, I'll heed DoTW's advice about looking for new Wolfie skins. Or I may replace them one-for-one with Chaingunners. 0 Share this post Link to post
NuMetalManiak Posted July 19, 2013 SteveD said:I didn't remember that you're a keyboarder. No mouse at all? Consider myself a "partial keyboarder", as I had stated back before doing MAP03 that my gameplay style was mostly mouse, with the number keys, left alt, and tab being my main keyboard keys. It's ironic that I'm a better keyboarder at Fury3 than in Doom, as Fury3 is one of those "six degrees of freedom" games unlike Doom. MAP19 Port Fury Ugh, that start was no fun. Three sarges on three different sides, with barrels all around, and more enemies pouring in...I can't find myself a failsafe way out of it! Heretic apparently found one, but since I just got from MAP18 in a jiffy, I had no time to watch the demo yet! The biggest dick move by Duff so far, I wonder what will happen on his last three maps (Steve keeps talking about Venom...). After the hectic start I journey through and reveal a green area with lots of cacos and some chaingunners, with a baron and some revenants later. Offered good practice on two-SSG-killing on cacodemons, I must say. I found the PG secret and pit by the way, and totally maneuvered around it. Backtracking to a new area revealed some real nasties, arachnotrons, enemies pouring from two sides, and the asshole chaingunners behind the ledges. BFG seems to get rid of enough, and I eventually leave. Left building: Never really liked this area because the switches can be a bit confusing. Also, a cacodemon usually sees me and ends up in the building sometimes, happened in my run. When ultimately leaving the building, an arachnotron to my direct left can cause problems. Outside, warehouse, and exit: Faraway chaingunners are indeed a hassle. I used the mancubus as a meat-shield when he got distracted and gunned it for the warehouse. The boys in blue are back in town, and are quite hilarious at somehow attacking anyone they can. I didn't have too much trouble in this area, and managed the revenants after the key quite well. Probably the one thing I hate about the warehouse is that ground-level monsters and lost souls can easily wander. Back outside I visited the ship and cleared off the chaingunners (and my mancubus friend) before going to the exit room. If only that outside area had more excitement, maybe the map could be much better. Exit area always was different every time I played here. I used BFG, turns out the towered chaingunners survived the shot. Revenants up top can be a hassle, as was the hellknight reveal. Somehow though, it manages to be not very problematic in the end. Just ugly in terms of what I do. Overall, first half is not fun then fun, then second half, left building and outside was boring, warehouse and exit were quite fun. Detail overall was okay as well. Final Time 6:59. rlmchaos.txt said:Level 19: Do not dodge around the bow of the ship while the warehouse door is open. If you do, you'll see big-time HOM. I couldn't find it. :( 0 Share this post Link to post
dobu gabu maru Posted July 19, 2013 MAP19: Right off the bat—that’s a damn good lookin’ starting room. There’s a little more bite to this map as we have a lot of nasty hitscanners to deal with followed by a pretty fun “combat puzzle” where we’re given an SSG and some ammo but too many cacos to deal with. The answer of course is infighting and picking up the megasphere to unleash some more baddies sitting on top of all the ammo we need. Afterwards we work ourselves to the titular port which must have been an impressive feat to construct back in ‘96. It’s unfortunately too large of an area to have any good combat, as the meager amount of monsters here meet their abysmal end. Duff then forgets that the shotgun exists and proceeds to stockpile all the ammo I need offscreen (or in secrets as I found none). After clearing out the nazi warehouse I was left with an ammo amount I could count on my fingers, which led to a very… interesting fisticuffs exit battle. No major traps here, although it was mostly entertaining. 0 Share this post Link to post
Magnusblitz Posted July 19, 2013 Caught up! MAP16: The Wolf's Hour The opening outside area is actually pretty good, with tasteful slime falls (though non-damaging weirdly) and a nice setup against lots of zombies and some cacos. After that, though, it turns into more Bagrow crap, with a ton of ultra-dark ultra-narrow corridors, an (unintentional) unavoidable chaingunner teleport ambush, and a sad, sad imp ambush in the last room that reminded me of MAP01. 2/5 MAP17: No Escape Obvious secret at the start (it's got both a different wall texture AND a suspiciously-placed Bunsen burner) yields a whopping SSG, backpack, ammo, shells, AND a megasphere. Wow. Some nice "go from room to room mowing down enemies" for a bit, though there's tons of blatant texture switches and floor texture rule violations in the blue key area. I really liked how the Cyberdemon could attack you if you got too close to the windows. The dark "Run!" area is kinda weird, as it's much safer to just plink away with the chaingun, then grab the not-so-secret Megasphere #2. The arachnatron/caco/chaingunner room after that was a nice battle with a good mixture of limited room and cover. Then Megasphere #3 for absolutely free... this is getting ridiculous. For some reason, the AVs/HKs got stuck on the blue key door... not sure why. There's a few more pathetic fights against a baron and some manucubi, then... WHAT? THAT'S THE EXIT?! I don't get my showdown with the Cyberdemon?? Completely unmarked?! WHAT THE FU... After some exploration, discovered that the last two secrets are obtained by jumping out the windows and grabbing some rockets and blur spheres, if you choose. Not really worth it, especially if you actually want to fight the Cyber. Reading Steve's comments, I see that a lot of the design quirks are due to this level being ripped from a different WAD, but still. I wanted to like this and give it a 3/5, but it loses a point for the negatives. 2/5 MAP18: Dead Radio Some nice design bits (such as the inset lights) are ruined by the huge swaths of COMPSPAN and similarly near-full-bright lighting everywhere. I think a lot of the flaws of this map could just be solved by copious amounts of dim lighting. Had a good rush in the room with the five waste crushers when I accidently tumbled out the window before raising the bridge and had to fight everything in the sludge... actually a fun challenge that left me low, but I just rolled with it. The placement of the crusher actually makes the lone revenant guarding the blue key somewhat of a threat. Bizarre use of voodoo dolls by the yellow door... and then a teleport straight into damaging slime, woohoo. This room is kinda annoying, mainly because the player has to constantly sit and wait for lifts and guess which door opened up next, but knowing Steve, that was the point. There are plentiful radsuits too, so can't really complain. Weird item placement though, with a secret berserk pack right before the berserk pack in the yellow key, right before the exit. Uh-huh. 3/5 MAP19: Port Fury Much nicer looking than the last one, I must say. Devilish start with the barrels right next to the player. I myself like peace and calm and being able to quicksave, but I know it's Steve's trademark to put the player on edge right away, and this works. I personally solved it on the second try by just running straight forward after blowing the chaingunner way. Went into the green outside area first, then the blue. Free megasphere followed by a free soulsphere is probably a bit much, but they're much appreciated for the amount of hitscanners in the open dock area. I gotta say, interesting choice on the colors for the ship... I gotta ask Steve, have you ever actually seen a ship before? ;) Beige isn't all the rage... Cargo area is nothing too hard (hi Nazis) except for a surprise post-key Revenant ambush. The red door room is all sorts of hell though... slime floor, chaingunner and revenants in towers, hell knights rising from the floor, a lack of ammo... topped off by an unmarked exit! Oy vey. 2/5 even though it looks nicer than MAP18, but the gameplay takes a sharp dive after the teleport into the port area. 0 Share this post Link to post