The convenience of playing games...

[Jodwin]

Mogul said:

This is a problem, but I'm not sure Diablo 2 did it any better. You were required (read: REQUIRED) assign X amount of attribute points to certain stats for stupid, binary reasons (without X points in strength, you can't wear this armor) and Energy was ignored outright, which is terrible design, obviously. WW barb and hammerdin -- how often are these two mainstay builds deviated from? Probably not much more often than D3's WW barb.

I'll ignore D2 because that's old as shit, but in TL2 all items have both stats and level requirement, of which you need to meet just one. Ie. "You must have 50 str or be level 10." So as long as it isn't a class restricted item everyone can use it eventually, but if you're building towards it you can use it sooner than others. As for cookie cutter builds, those appear in any game involving character creation as soon as people start sharing strategies. They aren't even worth your (or anyone else's) time to worry about, instead you should be more concerned about the non-cookie cutter options for people who specifically don't want to take the easy way out.

Which is what Diablo 3 doesn't even let you do, because every god damn character is the same. Way to go dorkheads, what happened to freedom anyway?

Mogul said:

Difference of preference here, but I don't see how it's fun to re-tread the same leveling content just so you can allocate your points differently, as opposed to either changing out skills/runes or, in the case of WoW, clicking your respec button. Maybe I've been playing RPGS for too many years, but I'm SO OVER leveling, and I have been for a long time. It's OK the first fucking four times (normal, nightmare, hell, inferno), but the endgame is what the game is really about.

Difference of preference I guess, personally I wasn't aware there even was "an endgame" for Diablo 2, 3, TL or TL2! They're literally just running through the same gauntlet of monsters over and over again with simply higher level mobs to kill. Yeah, sounds fucking amazing. Personally I'd just rather run it through once on a difficulty level I find fun and then put the character down. Oh wait, can't do that in D2 nor D3 because normal is FUCKING STUPID. Thank god for difficulty levels in TL2. Now I can just run through the game once with my melee mage, then roll a tundra-caster berserker , and an other, and an other and have ton of fun without growing bored of any of them. You may be SO OVER leveling, but I was SO OVER playing D2 on multiple "difficulty levels" the first time I got through Hell.

Mogul said:

I prefer not having a character select screen with several failed projects/experiments just sitting there.

Use the delete button.

Mogul said:

Can you elaborate on this?

Oskills. Survivability boosts. Procs. Ton of shit. Also applies to TL2.



Also, progression and seeing your character grow is where the fun's at.

[DooM_RO]

@OP

Man, you should really contact Blizzard before something bad happens to your account. Most hacked accounts end up botter fodder. After you fix this mess, get the authenticator app for your phone.

I think we should stop hijacking this thread and start a new one, especially considering that the expansion is coming soon.

[Mogul]

Jodwin said:

every goddamn character is the same

As opposed to hammerdins and ww barbs? As far as I know, there is a build that supports a melee-ish wizard in Diablo 3. It's probably about as rare as the melee caster build in D2. Since every game features cookie-cutter builds, as well as the option to do a great variety of other things with your character, I don't see how D3 is worse in this regard.

Use the delete button.

Is deleting a character you spent perhaps 50 hours on fun or even good? This doesn't solve the issue of feeling compelled to reroll for stupid reasons. In fact, I think it's absurd to ask your players to reroll instead of giving them a respec button.

Oskills. Survivability boosts. Procs. Ton of shit. Also applies to TL2.

This all applies to Diablo 3, too, so I'm not sure what you're on about. Is there an action RPG where these things aren't important?

Also, progression and seeing your character grow is where the fun's at.

Well, yes of course. Character progression is a huge part of Diablo 3, too. The gains in both survivability and damage output (and magic/gold find, for that matter) since I first hit level 60 in Diablo 3 are astounding. Exponential, even. And guess what, if I want to drastically change my play style, all I have to do is reconfigure my skills and runes. I don't even have to create a character and spend tens of hours leveling and gearing him. That is pretty awesome, in my eyes.

[Jodwin]

Mogul said:

As opposed to hammerdins and ww barbs?

Learn to read.

Mogul said:

Is deleting a character you spent perhaps 50 hours on fun or even good? This doesn't solve the issue of feeling compelled to reroll for stupid reasons. In fact, I think it's absurd to ask your players to reroll instead of giving them a respec button.

You're the one complaining about characters you don't use cluttering your character select screen, to which deleting the ones you don't want anymore is the perfect answer. Also, you're the guy who hates rerolling. I love it, I love taking a new character from zero to hero and seeing them grow. I assume you also hate roguelikes as well? I don't.

Mogul said:

Well, yes of course. Character progression is a huge part of Diablo 3, too. The gains in both survivability and damage output (and magic/gold find, for that matter) since I first hit level 60 in Diablo 3 are astounding. Exponential, even. And guess what, if I want to drastically change my play style, all I have to do is reconfigure my skills and runes. I don't even have to create a character and spend tens of hours leveling and gearing him. That is pretty awesome, in my eyes.

So if you want to change your playstyle on lvl 60 you can do that...cool. Now tell me why the hell would you want to do that in the first place? At that point you're just repeating the same old grinding areas for e-dick and AH rather than playing the game for any sort of real progression. "Endgame" my ass.

[bcwood16]

I do find Steam can be a pain for 'stopping' you from playing games. However, with fast internet connections now (for most of us anyway), its not too bad.

Pros and cons. with the good old 'boxed' copy, you had to find and download patches your self and also keep on top of when new ones were out. Along with finding the best mirror to download from and making sure you have the UK, English version or what ever. However, at least I had control as sometimes patches broke MODS, so if I didnt want the latest one, dont install it!

With Steam, its all done nice and easy, it quickly updates, and away you go. However, with games like Skyrim when you dont want a patch breaking your modded game and destroying hours and hours worth of gameplay its a real pain. Turning off 'Automatic Updates' never works! EVER! Why bother with that feature?

I also was playing Sins of a Solor Empire, Im rubbish at that game, but love playing it anyway. A few months ago I put a week into playing a game and I was actually winning for once! Then steam updated it and I could not load the game.....never played it since. I will go back, but not until that sour taste has gone.

And only last week I went to play Half Life Episode 2 and it decided to update....ok...waited, then it took ages as I had not launched the game for ages, finally it completed, then said something about re-arranging my files structure for better performance or something.....that took over 20 mins, after that I could not be bothered any more and watched TV instead.

So yea Steam is a pain, but at the end of the day, its not a massive deal breaker and really you dont have a choice anyway! My main gripe is the 'forced' update, I just dont want to until 'I' the 'owner' of the game decided when my files on 'my' computer are updated!

Anyway....thats that lol

[Mogul]

Jodwin said:

So if you want to change your playstyle on lvl 60 you can do that...cool. Now tell me why the hell would you want to do that in the first place? At that point you're just repeating the same old grinding areas for e-dick and AH rather than playing the game for any sort of real progression. "Endgame" my ass.

rofl what an idiot.


Your mocking of "endgame" is justified in a sense, but I suppose you could "learn to read" and notice that I've already spelled this out for you in a previous post. Nevertheless, the item hunt is what harcore Diablo is about (hardcore, as in the approach to playing, not the game mode). Yes, serious Diablo players actually DO spend hundreds of hours after clearing the game on the hardest difficulties and farm items with the express intent of either increasing character power through amazing items or selling them. This is true of every Diablo game so far and I'm surprised to see you reacting as if it's the first time you've read that. Why do people regularly play in this way? Like you said, character progression is fun, and it doesn't have to stop at max level. Far from it. This is one totally legitimate way to keep a game alive years after you would expect it to die.

There are plenty of reasons to drastically change your play style in the endgame. Maybe you're farming at higher monster power and want to play an extremely defensive build/gear setup. You have the freedom to do that. Maybe you're playing on a low monster power and just want to farm extremely efficiently and go full damage. You can do that. In fact, you have such freedom that one wonders what the hell you even meant when you asked something like "where's the freedom" in regard to Diablo 3. As opposed to permanent specs that you can never change? lmao.

[Maes]

Don't diss Joddo or you'll be overwhelmed by a barrage of scary, complex, vowel-laden Finnish Insults (TM) that put even the most snapping of niggaz to shame and have them running under their momma's skirts (thinking they're circus tents). How pathetic.

[Jodwin]

Mogul said:

Your mocking of "endgame" is justified in a sense, but I suppose you could "learn to read" and notice that I've already spelled this out for you in a previous post. Nevertheless, the item hunt is what harcore Diablo is about (hardcore, as in the approach to playing, not the game mode). Yes, serious Diablo players actually DO spend hundreds of hours after clearing the game on the hardest difficulties and farm items with the express intent of either increasing character power through amazing items or selling them. This is true of every Diablo game so far and I'm surprised to see you reacting as if it's the first time you've read that. Why do people regularly play in this way? Like you said, character progression is fun, and it doesn't have to stop at max level. Far from it. This is one totally legitimate way to keep a game alive years after you would expect it to die.

Wow, they spend hundreds of hours grinding Diablo or Baal on Hell or Inferno for pointless loot just to grow their e-peen. Been there, done that ten years ago and I have absolutely no desire to do that ever again. Worst waste of time, ever. When I play Torchlight 2 on veteran difficulty I can get a bunch of cool and relevant loot and multiple levels while being challenged on the first playthrough on a two hour session, which is much more than you'll ever get grinding the endgame in a genre which shouldn't be having one to begin with. Why you seem to think that wasting all your free time on literally repeating the same grind over and over again is a good way to have progress in a game is beyond me, but obviously your l33th4x0r uberrace knows better.


Also, JUMALAUTA PERKELE SAATANA.

[Mogul]

Pointless loot? No. To grow e-peen? Yes, that's pretty much what character progression is. It's a valid way to play, and doing it at max level is just a different way than how you prefer to progress. Point is, your dismissal of the game and its players' taste for it has been demonstrated to be mostly based on incorrect assumptions and, frankly, a lack of an eye for great system design. I'm not even saying there's something wrong with preferring Diablo 2 and its design derivatives like TL. To appreciate Diablo 3 is not fanboyism, and your preferred systems are not so vastly superior as such that you can just dismiss the opinion of others and insult them for it.

Also, I can't read your gibberish. Speak 'Murican.

[SYS]

Mogul said:

This is a problem, but I'm not sure Diablo 2 did it any better. You were required (read: REQUIRED) assign X amount of attribute points to certain stats for stupid, binary reasons (without X points in strength, you can't wear this armor) and Energy was ignored outright, which is terrible design, obviously. WW barb and hammerdin -- how often are these two mainstay builds deviated from? Probably not much more often than D3's WW barb.

I liked it better than having D3's primary stat setup. Mainstay builds were deviated from. My point is you could deviate in D2, and still have a good time even with crappy gear.

Mogul said:

Difference of preference here, but I don't see how it's fun to re-tread the same leveling content just so you can allocate your points differently, as opposed to either changing out skills/runes or, in the case of WoW, clicking your respec button. Maybe I've been playing RPGS for too many years, but I'm SO OVER leveling, and I have been for a long time. It's OK the first fucking four times (normal, nightmare, hell, inferno), but the endgame is what the game is really about.

I prefer not having a character select screen with several failed projects/experiments just sitting there. It's much more elegant to be able to do all of your barb stuff on one barb, and the sense of ownership of the character is increased when all of your eggs are in that one basket. That said, I totally get the appeal of ladders, a system which plays nicely with the notion that people want to reroll constantly.

Hardcore mode. D2 was more enjoyable to play through.

Mogul said:

Can you elaborate on this?

The sheer amount of uniques, set items, rare items, gems, rune words, socketing uniques and sets with rune words. Far better stat system with wider variety of possibilities.

Mogul said:

Not true! In fact, throw barb was just about the ONLY viable build in Inferno, pre-nerf. It is true that WW pretty much trumps everything right now, but throw builds exist, and I imagine that the throw build strat is still useful if you are playing undergeared in a Monster Power 10 run or something.

A Frenzy dual weilding Barb hurling spears like an uzi while using war cries for crowd control and stat buffs? Not in D3.

[DooM_RO]

GUYS, I have opened another Diablo 3 thread, please stop hijacking this one.

[SavageCorona]

I'd like to be able to conveniently play Dragon Age but I can't think of a funny name. This is a serious problem and I need help badly.