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chesse20

all names of doom II songs for slade?

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so i know that the map01 song is called D_runnin but i need to know the rest so i can add more custom music to Shrek vs Doomguy: The Phantom Pain

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You can find the names of all 32 songs by opening up doom2.wad in SLADE. Considering you're using ZDoom though, you can pretty much have the music called whatever you like and use that name in the MAPINFO instead of the Doom 2 names.

Also, I'll reiterate what I said in your last thread: do you intend to actually get better at mapping? Like I said, just curious.

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Obsidian said:

You can find the names of all 32 songs by opening up doom2.wad in SLADE. Considering you're using ZDoom though, you can pretty much have the music called whatever you like and use that name in the MAPINFO instead of the Doom 2 names.

Also, I'll reiterate what I said in your last thread: do you intend to actually get better at mapping? Like I said, just curious.

yeah the more i map the better ill get?

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Something like that. If you do want to get better, I highly recommend trying more mapping for vanilla and Boom: ZDoom and it's derivatives have a lot of distractions that tend to divert mappers away from the core elements that make maps great. I've seen quite a few mediocre maps where the mapper trys to gloss over the shortcomings with flash ZDoomisms. Try some of the higher-ranked megawads on the IdGames archive as well: I'd recommend possibly Icarus for starters, then possibly Requiem. It helps to be pretty decent at playing maps if you want to make 'em. ;-)

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chesse20 said:

yeah the more i map the better ill get?


Perhaps.

The only limiting factors is one's imagination. Some people will have to go through the 90's style of
mapping before getting the hang of detailing, while other's seem to take to mapping like an otter to water.

Obsidian said:

..... I highly recommend trying more mapping for vanilla and Boom: ZDoom and it's derivatives have a
lot of distractions that tend to divert mappers away from the core elements that make maps great.
I've seen quite a few mediocre maps where the mapper trys to gloss over the shortcomings with flash
ZDoomisms. .....


It is too bad that some people have to badmouth some ports. But ZDOOM seems to receive the worst of it,
despite being the most popular port, which includes GZDOOM and Skulltag.

Visually there is very little difference between a map done for vanilla DOOM, BOOM or ZDOOM. The biggest
difference here is simply that ZDOOM will display in a higher resolution.

I liken mapping for vanilla DOOM to driving Henry Ford's old Model T. It was the best on offer at the time.

ZDOOM offers all the progress made with BOOM, and all the extensions suggested by those people who are/were
heavily into mapping and saw the limitations of the vanilla DOOM engine. The culmination of these suggestions
are features like ACS scripting, ZMAPINFO, DECORATE, SNDINFO, SNDSEQ, to name just a few. See the whole list
at http://zdoom.org/wiki/Special_lumps .

Without those dedicated mappers, over the years asking for more features, and the willingness of the port
designer to accommodate those requests, ZDOOM would still be just an extension of BOOM.

The mapping process is the same for any port.

You design your map with the editor of your choice, except that the feature set for each port differs
somewhat. The 'glossing over', that was mentioned, can only be achieved with an OpenGL port, like GZDOOM,
with the only differences being skyboxes as in QUAKE, dynamic lights and models.

So, to say that you should start mapping with the contraints imposed by vanilla DOOM, is, excuse the
language, extreme Baloney.

Instead, play a/some pwads with different ports and find out which one appeals to you visually. Then find
out what kind of support there is. And only then decide on which port you want to map for.

And one more thing, you must have fun making maps.

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I guess I'm kind of cynical, but I've seen quite a few monstrosities when it comes to the ZDoom branch. I know there's a great deal of good ZDoom projects, but most of the authors behind them started off by making maps for vanilla and ZDoom: you start from the basics and work up. I personally think ZDoom is a fine port, it's just not something new mappers should start out designing for. This doesn't apply to everyone of course and this could be just my opinion, but I think it's a good opinion as opinions go. Having said that, you do prove an excellent point when you say mapping should be fun: personally I want people to have as much fun playing my maps as I did making them, but everyone is different. If you have fun making maps with Shrek and veritable bucketloads of Hornets then by all means do so, but I'd recommend keeping those ones to yourself. :P

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Kappes Buur said:

The culmination of these suggestions
are features like ACS scripting, ZMAPINFO, DECORATE, SNDINFO, SNDSEQ, to name just a few. See the whole list
at http://zdoom.org/wiki/Special_lumps .

Before we revise history any further, be aware that all but one of the things you list are taken from or grew gradually out of features written by Raven Software for Hexen. Claiming them as ZDoom innovations is a far stretch indeed. ZDoom was also not the first port with the ability to specify actors externally from the executable. That credit actually goes to the EDGE codebase with its DDF language, which while quite a bit different, directly influenced the development of subsequent act-alikes. Including EDF, which incidentally had full ability to specify ALL actors, not just static decorations, for several months before ZDoom gained that ability itself.

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*sigh*

Really, the Model T wasn't the best available at the time, either: it was the cheapest. Hand-built Mercedez-Benz or Rolls-Royce were better quality, and came in more colors than black.

But as far as creating maps for Doom or whatever, having a solid grasp of the fundamentals of design are still important: things such as level flow and balance should be universal and come before shiny things up to and including music, scripting, and new actors. Learning these fundamentals by mapping for vanilla is akin to learning to balance on a bicycle by at first using training wheels.

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