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Marnetmar

So, I've Started my First Quake map...

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Depends what you want to do with it. It looks a lot like the classic ID way of starting a level: Put the player on a higher plinth he steps down from, which is good.

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Marnetmar said:

Am I doing this right?


No. The texture on the long beams needs rotating 90 degrees, unless those are cut from the widest trees known to fiction. :p

Aside from that, I'd personally worry about building too much detail until you have something you can look at in game to test scale, light placement and such. I've never built a Quake map, but I learned that one the hard way from a Half-Life map.

Actually, can you compile it in that state and check it out in game? I recall with Half-Life the original Quake-derived compile tools didn't care if your map had a huge gaping door to the void, but Zoner's newer tools with more features would just scream at you until you found the leak.

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Ledillman said:

Ugh... it's fine, i think? what is it supposed to be?


I don't know, I'm just going the Doom route and making what I think looks cool :P

Aliotroph? said:

No. The texture on the long beams needs rotating 90 degrees, unless those are cut from the widest trees known to fiction. :p

Aside from that, I'd personally worry about building too much detail until you have something you can look at in game to test scale, light placement and such. I've never built a Quake map, but I learned that one the hard way from a Half-Life map.

Actually, can you compile it in that state and check it out in game? I recall with Half-Life the original Quake-derived compile tools didn't care if your map had a huge gaping door to the void, but Zoner's newer tools with more features would just scream at you until you found the leak.


Texture issue has been noted. (It's not fixed in the shot below since I took it before checking the thread)

As for detail, I think you have a point, I'll try to go easier on it from now on until I can test the map. Trenchbroom doesn't have a compile feature so I wouldn't know if I could test it or not, I suppose I would need to load the map into another editor?

http://i.imgur.com/4E2xLC6.png

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You need to get some tools to compile the map. This page is a decent explanation. Any of the editor-specific stuff it describes is for Radiant, but Trenchbroom has its own docs for that kind of stuff.

Your map, in its current state, will definitely cause the VIS tool to fail. If the game is happy to run your map anyway, this will just mean reduced performance (which won't matter on a tiny map running on a modern PC, but will matter when it grows).

The places where you have brushes crossing through each other are likely to cause some sort of nastiness. Best case would be z-fighting weirdness with the textures and worst is probably the BSP tool blowing up in your face. The easiest way to build the middle section is probably to start with one long beam, add the two halves of the second beam on either side, and add four triangular brushes in the corners. That's 7 brushes instead of the current 3, but tools and engine will like you better for it.

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Aliotroph? said:

You need to get some tools to compile the map. This page is a decent explanation. Any of the editor-specific stuff it describes is for Radiant, but Trenchbroom has its own docs for that kind of stuff.

Your map, in its current state, will definitely cause the VIS tool to fail. If the game is happy to run your map anyway, this will just mean reduced performance (which won't matter on a tiny map running on a modern PC, but will matter when it grows).

The places where you have brushes crossing through each other are likely to cause some sort of nastiness. Best case would be z-fighting weirdness with the textures and worst is probably the BSP tool blowing up in your face. The easiest way to build the middle section is probably to start with one long beam, add the two halves of the second beam on either side, and add four triangular brushes in the corners. That's 7 brushes instead of the current 3, but tools and engine will like you better for it.


Sweet, thanks for pointing me in the right direction!

andrewj said:

Unless that structure is surrounded by a big box, compiling the map is not going to work at all.


I know it won't, I'll put a big box around it before I test it.

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A Shambler that early in the map? Isn't that the equivalent of starting the player character facing a Cyberdemon with only a pistol?

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Shadow Hog said:

A Shambler that early in the map? Isn't that the equivalent of starting the player character facing a Cyberdemon with only a pistol?


The idea is that the player will drop into a pool of water with some floating rocks to hide from the Shambler. You're not actually intended to fight it at the start of the level.

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Does getting hit with Shambler lightning underwater trigger the same discharge instakill that firing the Thunderbolt underwater does? I don't think it does, but admittedly I'd never set the situation up.

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I was talking with Tarnsman a bit about this, I don't believe they are actually able to attack you while you're underwater.

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i think you're completely invulnerable from every enemy when residing under water, aside from the Rotfish, of course. the AI just won't attack you. i might be wrong, i haven't played Quake in a while.

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All enemies attack you under water, although some might seem hesitant to go in at times.

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Avoozl said:

Don't Scrags still shoot at you while under water?


Yes, that level in E1 where you have to go in the water to this underwater thing to get to some dock thing to get a silver key while Scrags attack you is a prime example of them doing that, since it is a very large area easy to get them underwater.

I'm pretty sure all of them do, but some like the Fiend may be unable to due to it being limited to melee and you can obviously just swim out of its range.

I would like to see a Shambler underwater though, since the lightning effect would either be boring and work normally or it would explode everything in the water like when you try to use the lightning gun underwater.

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Shadow Hog said:

A Shambler that early in the map? Isn't that the equivalent of starting the player character facing a Cyberdemon with only a pistol?


Nope.

Shamblers can be baited very easily into their melee attack by getting close; and backing off whilst the animation completes, only to get in close when it's done again to bait the next melee. Most enemies in Quake fall prey to this, which is why (a) they're essentially no threat when faced alone and (b) anything can be killed with the regular shotgun, plus enough ammo and time.

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Marnetmar said:

I was talking with Tarnsman a bit about this, I don't believe they are actually able to attack you while you're underwater.

Should depend on vis, I think. But I'm not sure.

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SavageCorona said:

I would like to see a Shambler underwater though, since the lightning effect would either be boring and work normally or it would explode everything in the water like when you try to use the lightning gun underwater.


I recall testing this back when, and I'm fairly sure it doesn't discharge. Although it was a long time ago so can't say for sure.

Value of this post: Minimal / none

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Shamblers or their targets don't explode underwater if the Shamblers use their lightning attack.

And the enemies don't attack targets that are in/behind different content. If I understand the code right, it would be enough to just put a thin wall of water between the enemy and its target.

They also don't attack if there's someone else between them and their target.

Already started attacks will of course finish.

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Little update, I've started to redo the map from scratch (don't ask) in Jackhammer, making proper use of brush placement and the clipping tool this time, I must say Jackhammer is far superior to Trenchbroom in terms of functionality and about the same in terms of ease of use.

http://i.imgur.com/mnfaOkQ.png

I've decided to change the color scheme from brown to blue which seems to be used less often in Quake maps.

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