Jump to content
Search In
  • More options...
Find results that contain...
Find results in...
40oz

Things in Doom we've accepted

Recommended Posts

What are some quirks, bugs, or strange things in Doom that we have come to accept that may be unconventional, inconvenient, or downright unfair in other media, in terms of other games of a similar genre or real life, such as how we've adjusted to straferunning, "runfalling" instead of jumping, doom's weird autoaiming, or no ability to look up and down?

I was playing MAP01 of Slaughterfest 2012 and there's a part where you obtain a key activating a trap where revenants and imps start teleporting in from a bunch of teleport pads, while a closet door opens up a horde of cacodemons swarming over a very tall cliff. When normally, in any other game, I might question why I can't run under the cacodemons and get frustrated with the blatant unfairness, the thought that immediately crossed my mind was "oh wow this is a trickier situation than if these cacodemons were just at ground level. Now I have to circle strafe around them without being able to see them. This mapper is smart!"

Shortly after I recited that in my head it became obvious that in many other games that would simply be put off as a retarded way to execute challenging gameplay, but it's something in Doom I've just accepted and learned to live with.

Share this post


Link to post

The overly complex armour system where some of the details (whether you have green or blue armour) aren't even shown to you.

Lack of a jump key combined with the ability to strafe run leads to some interesting shortcuts that can be exploited.

Share this post


Link to post

The fact that your melee attacks are nowhere near as efficient as the monsters', due to interface limitations, limited reaction speed, possibility of missing etc.

This includes the chainsaw, which is a big letdown in performance and effectiveness compared to the hype surrounding it (OMG DOOM, THE GAME WHERE YOU MOW DOWN DEMONS WITH THE CHAINSAW!!! OLOLOL!!!), and requires good knowledge of the game's mechanics in order to be used effectively (AKA without getting your ass handed to you at the first encounter). Quite unlike the image of a tough dude effortlessly mowing down hordes of demons with it.

Share this post


Link to post
Maes said:

the chainsaw, which is a big letdown in performance and effectiveness


I do understand that some people dislike the chainsaw, but I wouldn't say it's as much of a letdown. In fact, I love how the blood splatters all around when I grind a pinky with the chainsaw.

Share this post


Link to post

It always bothered me a bit that monsters would wake up if you swung your fist in the air, but wouldn't notice if you were standing behind them with an idling chainsaw.

Share this post


Link to post
MFG38 said:

I do understand that some people dislike the chainsaw, but I wouldn't say it's as much of a letdown. In fact, I love how the blood splatters all around when I grind a pinky with the chainsaw.


Visually, it's OK. But using it effectively is much harder than one would think (and then again, the only enemy you can use it against with minimal risk are only pinkies and spectres). With an increasing degree of risk, you can use it on:

  • Zombies: once it makes contacts there's virtually nil chance that they'll shoot back. If they do -or manage to get you before you make contact- you could be in for a lot of pain though.
  • Imps: again, virtually nil chance of retaliation once you make contact, but those fuckers can tear you a new one if you don't time your advance just right or miss.
  • Pain Elementals: well, they don't bite...
  • Lost souls, one on one, but getting stuck with one blocking your view is not a good idea. Also not good if they are too low/high.
  • Cacodemons: mixed experiences. Sometimes it seems that you can keep them in check just well, other times they seem to instantly recover even in the middle of an assault and bite you back.
  • Revenants: vs a single one, a chainsaw is surprisingly effective, due to high pain chance. But DON'T let go otherwise you get an 80 HP painful retaliation. Of course, not good when more than one is around.
  • Archviles: well, they don't harm you while charging up....if you can hit & hide it may be a good wearing-down tactic.
In any case, engaging in melee regularly is a losing proposition: the monsters are far better at it than you (the only concession to agility they have), they never misdirect melee attacks, and can retaliate instantly no matter what direction they are facing when you make contact. Quite hard to keep concentrated long enough, unless you are a regular Tyron runner.

Share this post


Link to post

I've accepted all the bullshit surrounding the liquids: bright blue color of the water, the fact that they're always bubbling due to the flat animation, the fact that you can run across them, and even run across lava and not die immidiately. That sort of stuff would be hilarious to see in a game with mdoern graphics.

Share this post


Link to post

I actually don't like how the melee attacks force you to face whatever you hit. I think that affects the chainsaw more than the fist, but it's kind of annoying. For vanilla Doom, at least, it works in spite of that, but IIRC custom melee weapons in ZDoom also inherit this quirk...

Share this post


Link to post

The cacodemon's silent melee attack always bothered me and I still think it's kinda lazy and dumb but I learned to live with that only because it's pretty rare for me to get bitten by them.

Also, liquid with no depth whatsoever.

Share this post


Link to post

When arch-viles resurrect monsters you can't stop the progression even if you kill the arch-vile in the middle of resurrecting.

Share this post


Link to post

I think most of us have accepted the fact that there's a difficulty level that we may never be able to beat. Most people just can't accept that, and will just say "this is impossible, it's a bad game". But we can live with it, right?

Share this post


Link to post

I've had to accept that Doomguy is in fact Dhalsim from the Street Fighter series, but only vertically. This is due to Dhalsimguy's ability to 'use' switches many miles higher or lower than his current height; as long as they're horizontally close.

Oh, and the infinitely-tall actors thing. Because I play with them on, always.

Share this post


Link to post

I don't have acceptance of limitations that can be fixed. That is the great thing about having source. The Doom that Id released is not the end product, it is the starting point.

Some of these things have been fixed in DoomLegacy and other ports.
Running under the cacodemons, looking up, liquid that is cloudy, deep, and you can swim. All kinds of engine limits, map sizes, and fault behaviors.

Games nearly identical to Doom failed, so what was better?
A year of development could have made a game that beat Doom, yet the modern games do not replace it. The realism clashes that are built into their engines do not help (glowing weapons, auras, unrealistic objects).

Share this post


Link to post

I'll have to second infinitely tall switches. I don't even consider the height of the actual graphic when I hit switches anymore.

Infinitely tall actors still annoy me, though. I always play in the right complevel for the wad because I want the gameplay the designer intended, but that is the one behavior I would consider turning off.

Share this post


Link to post
fraggle said:

It always bothered me a bit that monsters would wake up if you swung your fist in the air, but wouldn't notice if you were standing behind them with an idling chainsaw.

Circle strafe while punching the air. Makes no sense, but I feel better when I do.

Share this post


Link to post

I honestly don't like the megawad format. 30+2 levels is sort of too much at once to have any meaningful, sustained progression in terms of powerups, and often I feel kind of tired of a wad by the mid-20s maps. It was a cool novelty when it first came out in Doom 2, but in general I think the 8+1 episode format works a lot better. But that ship has long since sailed, so I can't get too upset about it.

Share this post


Link to post

I've accepted that Doomguy is perfectly happy to bound up steps which reach his waist while running backwards but that he can't hop over a railing which only reaches his ankles :3

Share this post


Link to post
yakfak said:

I've accepted that Doomguy is perfectly happy to bound up steps which reach his waist while running backwards but that he can't hop over a railing which only reaches his ankles :3


??? Care to explain? If unhindered by a low ceiling or a "do not pass this line" marker, Doomguy (and all other monsters, too) can climb over steps 24 units tall.

Share this post


Link to post

I'd guess yakfak is referring to mid-texture blocking lines set up so the railing looks 8-16 pixels tall.

Share this post


Link to post

Aside from those already mentioned, the thing that sticks out for me, and presents a point of contrast with more contemporary games, is Doomguy's POV height - it's very (some might say, 'unrealistically') close to the ground. Clearly, Doomguy is pretty frickin' short. I think this is one of the factors which contributes to DOOM's unusual (and difficult to master) scale; how many times have budding mappers recreated everyday objects (chairs are very common) with more or less the correct proportions, but which nevertheless feel very unnatural, size-wise, in-game? Still, the interesting thing is that - despite how unrealistic DOOM is in this respect, which itself makes a key contribution to the feel of player movement - it doesn't seem to hamper the game's immersion factor. So, it seems that realistically recreating what it's like to be a regular-sized person situated in, and moving through, space, is not at all necessary for producing the illusion of being so situated, and for getting players to engage with the game in a very physical way (e.g., I still lean back in my chair when I see a rocket heading straight for me, and swerve to the side to avoid fireballs).

Share this post


Link to post
Phml said:

I'd guess yakfak is referring to mid-texture blocking lines set up so the railing looks 8-16 pixels tall.


But that's a map-dependent feature which has even more extreme versions (e.g. invisible walls) or even polar opposites (pass-through walls), not something you "accept" because it's a hardcoded engine limit or quirk. Might as well complain about "toilets in PWADs".

Share this post


Link to post
plums said:

I honestly don't like the megawad format. 30+2 levels is sort of too much at once to have any meaningful, sustained progression in terms of powerups, and often I feel kind of tired of a wad by the mid-20s maps. It was a cool novelty when it first came out in Doom 2, but in general I think the 8+1 episode format works a lot better. But that ship has long since sailed, so I can't get too upset about it.

This is how I feel. I can play through an entire episode of the orginal Doom without stopping or getting bored but when it comes to Doom II and Final Doom, I can only play them 2-4 levels at a time. It's probably because I'm less familiar with the maps but the levels just tire me out a lot faster than the maps from the original Doom. Basically, I prefer it when the levels are split up into episodes.

Share this post


Link to post

The fact that Doomguy fights off the forces of Hell on not one but two moon bases, then goes to Hell, survives, and THEN goes back to Earth to battle the Hellspawn some more...all without blinking his eyes, going to the bathroom, or eating anything.
What a trooper.

Share this post


Link to post
plums said:

I honestly don't like the megawad format. 30+2 levels is sort of too much at once to have any meaningful, sustained progression in terms of powerups, and often I feel kind of tired of a wad by the mid-20s maps. It was a cool novelty when it first came out in Doom 2, but in general I think the 8+1 episode format works a lot better. But that ship has long since sailed, so I can't get too upset about it.

Luke Dacote said:

This is how I feel. I can play through an entire episode of the orginal Doom without stopping or getting bored but when it comes to Doom II and Final Doom, I can only play them 2-4 levels at a time. It's probably because I'm less familiar with the maps but the levels just tire me out a lot faster than the maps from the original Doom. Basically, I prefer it when the levels are split up into episodes.

Y'know what, I think I agree with this. I get really tired of most MegaWADs long before seeing their climaxes. Smaller, more bite-sized chunks are easier to handle.

That said, if the MegaWAD is full of small levels, like Cyberdreams or Zone 300, I can usually deal.

baronofheck82 said:

The fact that Doomguy fights off the forces of Hell on not one but two moon bases, then goes to Hell, survives, and THEN goes back to Earth to battle the Hellspawn some more...all without blinking his eyes, going to the bathroom, or eating anything.
What a trooper.

Well, he did down thousands of health potions. All that liquid, but no bathroom trips, means either the Doom guy has one helluva bladder, or UAC armor has one helluva mechanism for working around that.

(Or maybe he went in between levels, but this is really overthinking it)

Share this post


Link to post

I'll nominate bfg mechanics as a thing that's highly unintuitive at first, but you just get used to after a while and stop questioning why it works this way.

Especially the part where you can kill monsters that are not even close to where you fired the weapon by running next to them before the ball hits something.

Share this post


Link to post
Shadow Hog said:

That said, if the MegaWAD is full of small levels, like Cyberdreams or Zone 300, I can usually deal.


Zone 300 was great, no problems with the length there. Even Plutonia manages to not drag on too much. It's about the limit for what I feel is long enough though. And I like long levels, often, just not 30 of them in a row.

Delvin said:

I'll nominate bfg mechanics as a thing that's highly unintuitive at first, but you just get used to after a while and stop questioning why it works this way.


Oh man, the BFG definitely belongs here. What a quirky, weird weapon. It doesn't make any sense from a "realistic" point of view, even compared to Doom's general surrealism in everything else. I wonder if it was made like that because it was easier to code, or if they made it so counter-intuitive on purpose, or what.

Until I read about how it properly worked, my best guess was that there was some kind of triangulation going on between the gun and the projectile when it explodes -- much like how Quake 2's BFG was, coincidentally.

Share this post


Link to post
plums said:

I honestly don't like the megawad format. 30+2 levels is sort of too much at once to have any meaningful, sustained progression in terms of powerups, and often I feel kind of tired of a wad by the mid-20s maps. It was a cool novelty when it first came out in Doom 2, but in general I think the 8+1 episode format works a lot better. But that ship has long since sailed, so I can't get too upset about it.


I think I agree about this.

I prefer clean pistol start every 8-9 maps.

Share this post


Link to post
EvilNed said:

I think I agree about this.

I prefer clean pistol start every 8-9 maps.


There's Scythe 2. 32 Maps, 6 episodes.

Share this post


Link to post

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
×