Your rationalization of the demons

[Deleted_Account]

The demons from Doom are manifestations of Shub-Niggurath's will, an extension of her eldritch horror. The zombies are humans who have been possessed by evil entities, much like the deadites from Evil Dead. Her reasons are not something that a human can comprehend. But however you rationalize the demons, one thing is for sure, they're in the base and John Stalvern must plasma at them.

[Touchdown]

I'll quote John Carmack from QC11:

John Carmack said:

It's not just monsters or aliens. It's demons from the pits of Hell and they're the worst thing imaginable.

Another quote from Ian McCormick from DOOM 3:

Ian McCormick said:

We realized that the other dimension was not just the other dimension. It was Hell. And the creatures we were bringing back: demons.

[Nomad]

You can certainly go by what the devs have said, but for some of us the monsters being literal demons from hell makes them significantly less intimidating. The stuff of fairy tales are far less likely to exist, in my mind, than malicious extraterrestrials that tend to resemble those imaginary creatures (whether inherently or engineered to look as such).

[Average]

^
Oh, I don't know. If ET's were to turn up here at my work I be like "woah dude! Feckin'" and all that malarky. Even if they were here to kill me and my family. However, if demons turned up I'd promptly shit my pants and then have a heart attack in abject fear!

I actually do think of them as demons from hell. I mean, why not? Who know what hell would really be in reality. It could be a transdimensional place of torture and turmoil or it could be 'underground' but on another planet or it might just exist in the collective unconcious... either way if they are manifest in the Doom universe then they are demons from hell and they want to kill us all.

[Deleted_Account]

The Doom II text screens refer to the monsters in Doom as demons, carnivorous aliens and cannibal mutations. They also refer to evil spirits.

[Jodwin]

Nomad said:

The stuff of fairy tales are far less likely to exist, in my mind, than malicious extraterrestrials that tend to resemble those imaginary creatures (whether inherently or engineered to look as such).

While aliens, on the other hand, are so commonplace in modern media that some of us just shrug them off as "meh." :P

[Avoozl]

Doesn't explain why there's a texture which is supposed to be a wall of wailing soul/spirit faces.

I don't understand why some people want to go by their own belief of how something works in a games story instead of the developers intention.

[Deleted_Account]

Doom has a story?!

[Quasar]

Piper Maru said:

Doom has a story?!

A very minimalistic one, yes. But you're sort of choosing to ignore some of the key things that minimal story DOES actually spell out unambiguously - that you went through Hell (not a planet superficially resembling it), and that you fought demons (not genetically engineered animals). Occam's Plot Razor. The parts in parentheses aren't necessary to explain anything that's shown in the games. It's only when you want to try to reconcile their plots with your own belief system wherein supernatural things don't exist that you are finding a problem.

The point of Doom's story, to some degree, is to suspend that disbelief and engage with the plot in its narrative of a diabolical take-over of our reality. An unwillingness to do so, to me, would seem to just ruin the experience.

[Koko Ricky]

Nomad said:

You can certainly go by what the devs have said, but for some of us the monsters being literal demons from hell makes them significantly less intimidating. The stuff of fairy tales are far less likely to exist, in my mind, than malicious extraterrestrials that tend to resemble those imaginary creatures (whether inherently or engineered to look as such).

I like the idea of them being engineered because their demonic appearance--and the ritual, sacrificial and satanic iconography that litters all Doom games--seems like a scare tactic, an attempt to use images that instill fear as a form of torture. The creators, as I call them, have no interest in global domination or human enslavement. They are interested in being spectators to a violent hunt that spans galaxies.

[schwerpunk]

Consider the source: Doomguy is clearly insane, or at least off his gourd from Stimpack and Berserker abuse. I'd probably see demons, too. :P

[Deleted_Account]

So hell is not a planet?

[Koko Ricky]

Piper Maru said:

So hell is not a planet?

In my mind, Hell is the inside of the Icon of Sin. It is the organic, sentient transport comprising the creators, who are essentially the collective consciousness of the IOS. When Deimos disappeared from the sky, it was swallowed by the IOS, which is so massive it could fit comfortably inside. Hell is, like the demons and iconography, a physical manifestation of the IOS. Tools by which to terrify and torture humans.

[Deleted_Account]

So you can destroy hell by shooting rockets at John Romero's head? Why wasn't this in the Doom movie? It would have been a real hit at the box office.

[Luke Dacote]

I actually like the fact that the demons are never given a full explanation for their existence, what they are or why they want to destroy Earth. It makes the Doom mythos more unsettling. Maybe they are actually demons from Hell itself, maybe they're aliens, maybe they're beings from another dimension. Whatever they are, they're basically unstoppable and they want to exterminate the human race. I think that alone is pretty terrifying. After watching 'Event Horizon', it's really made me want a Doom game, novel or movie adaptation that focuses more on the Hellish aspects of its universe.

I do like schwerpunk's theory though, that maybe they are just aliens or maybe human soldiers but through Doomguy's insanity they appear as Hellspawn demons. Maybe (like the novels) Doomguy had a Christian unbringing and after some traumatic incident, all his enemies started to appear as Satanic monsters. That's really pushing it though.

[Deleted_Account]

I simply refer to them as demons from beyond the stars. They're still alien in the sense that they don't come from this world. The guys at ID software had many influences when they designed their baddies. There's a bit of Lovecraft, a splash of Dungeons and Dragons and a hint of Greek mythology to name a few.

[YouAreTheDemons]

Avoozl said:

Doesn't explain why there's a texture which is supposed to be a wall of wailing soul/spirit faces.

Maybe it's a monster's computer and that's the screensaver?

[Deleted_Account]

Doominer991 said:

Maybe it's a monster's computer and that's the screensaver?

I can see it now...

Jeffery the imp had to take a break from the forums because he was frustrated discussing literal humans and John Stalvern, plus he drank too many health potions. After Jeffery left his computer, John Stalvern, who was a space marine for 14 years approached the computer, hypnotized by the scrolling face texture of souls. John Stalvern moved the mouse prompting the password screen, he typed in iddqd and chuckled at the simplicity of it all.

"Those literal hellspawn are so predictable, they're not rational like me" John muttered to himself.

Suddenly Jeffery the imp returned and saw John Stalvern watching imp encounter. He hissed at the nosy space marine and threw a fireball at him, the marine strafed out of the way and returned fire with his plasma rifle which reduced the demon-alien imp into a charred corpse. Suddenly and without warning, Barry the Baron of Hell teleported into the damp and decaying room. "WHAT HAVE YOU DONE TO MY IMP?!" he roared. John Stalvern gasped in horror, he then bumped into the computer desk knocking over a bottle of health potion, frying the computer. The space marine, John Stalvern, fired upon the Baron of Hell with with his plasma gun, but 20 rounds of plasma was not enough to take down the angry alien invader from hell. The marine fired his rocket launcher at the wall, blowing it up and escaped to outside the map.

The end for now?

[Quasar]

Maybe it all actually takes place inside a computer simulation of reality and Doomguy and all the demons don't realize they're nothing but bits inside a machine.

HEY WAIT A SECOND!

[schwerpunk]

Quasar said:

Maybe it all actually takes place inside a computer simulation of reality and Doomguy and all the demons don't realize they're nothing but bits inside a machine.

HEY WAIT A SECOND!

Too deep! TOO DEEP!

[Job]

schwerpunk said:

Consider the source: Doomguy is clearly insane, or at least off his gourd from Stimpack and Berserker abuse. I'd probably see demons, too. :P

When he comes to, he's going to be torn apart after he realizes he was actually the scourge tearing apart earth in Doom 2. No zombie guys were on Phobos and Deimos. Just your comrades trying to defend UAC scientists and civilian contract employees from your rampage.

There's only one monster on the dark side of those moons. And that's Doom guy.

Why'd you have to kill Daisy, too?

Mind. Blown.

[Clonehunter]

I like the idea of literal demons from Hell, whatever that may be. It's goofier that way and more fitting.

For the demons themselves, I sorta see it that they were either prepared for the gates to open and they have shitty wave tactics (That worked) or they were taken off-guard by the sudden open gateway the scientists made, and took the chance to invade without really getting their shit together first. Either way, they slaughtered some moon bases and msot of Earth, so I guess that even without time to plan or coordinate they can whip ass fairly well, minus the Doomguy's ass.

[YouAreTheDemons]

Avoozl said:

I don't understand why some people want to go by their own belief of how something works in a games story instead of the developers intention.

Maybe it's because they don't like the developer's story.

[Deleted_Account]

Clonehunter said:

I like the idea of literal demons from Hell, whatever that may be. It's goofier that way and more fitting.

For the demons themselves, I sorta see it that they were either prepared for the gates to open and they have shitty wave tactics (That worked) or they were taken off-guard by the sudden open gateway the scientists made, and took the chance to invade without really getting their shit together first. Either way, they slaughtered some moon bases and msot of Earth, so I guess that even without time to plan or coordinate they can whip ass fairly well, minus the Doomguy's ass.

It seemed like a spur of the moment thing didn't it? I mean the monsters are really incompetent. They fight each other, some of them can't even navigate up stairs etc.

[schwerpunk]

Piper Maru said:

It seemed like a spur of the moment thing didn't it? I mean the monsters are really incompetent. They fight each other, some of them can't even navigate up stairs etc.

Maybe Hell is a prison realm, or maybe we caught them in the middle of some sort of sectarian conflict between those for and against FIREBLU wallpaper. :P

Anyway, I like the literal Hell interpretation well enough, but I also like to spice it up in my head while I'm mapping sometimes. Even Demons From Hell need some sort of ethos.

[Luke Dacote]

Job said:

When he comes to, he's going to be torn apart after he realizes he was actually the scourge tearing apart earth in Doom 2. No zombie guys were on Phobos and Deimos. Just your comrades trying to defend UAC scientists and civilian contract employees from your rampage.

There's only one monster on the dark side of those moons. And that's Doom guy.

Why'd you have to kill Daisy, too?

Mind. Blown.

Now THAT would be one hell of a twist. Though it does bring back the infamous ending of Repercussions of Evil: "No John, you are the demons."

Anyway on the theory on whether the demons are truly from Hell. Maybe Earth has become so sinful in the future that Hell itself sends it's demonic creatures to destroy it's inhabitance. Hell exists in an alternate dimension, so they use the gateways on the Mars, Phobos and Deimos bases to enter ours. Once they enter our dimension, demons become mortal which is why Doomguy is able to defeat them with man made weapons. When he goes to Hell, he's protected by a family heirloom of his which is an old fashioned cross neckless. This also gives him the power to defeat the demons in their own dimension (Demons don't like Religious symbols and objects). Also the demons decide early on that they need bigger firepower in order to destroy our world, so many of the demons get cybernetic make overs. The larger demons are equipped with rocket lauchers and some other cybernetic improvements and become Cyberdemons. The Spider-Masterminds and Arachnotrons were originally just the 'big brains' of Hell, but they're given a robot body to move around and also defend themselves.

I've thought about this too hard, haven't I?

[Deleted_Account]

In addition to Shub-Niggurath being the source of all the demons, she was banished to a place outside of space and time by the forces of light. However, while she can't physically return to our realm, her psychic powers can stretch out into our reality thus spawning demon hordes to act out her will. But a long time ago, the forces of light gifted some human beings with the power to rip and tear! B.J. Blaskowitz, Doom Guy, Quake Ranger...they're all reluctant champions of the light given superhuman capabilities to take on evil. In them they have the touch, they have the power!

[Clonehunter]

Piper Maru said:

In addition to Shub-Niggurath being the source of all the demons, she was banished to a place outside of space and time by the forces of light. However, while she can't physically return to our realm, her psychic powers can stretch out into our reality thus spawning demon hordes to act out her will. But a long time ago, the forces of light gifted some human beings with the power to rip and tear! B.J. Blaskowitz, Doom Guy, Quake Ranger...they're all reluctant champions of the light given superhuman capabilities to take on evil. In them they have the touch, they have the power!

Sounds like a HeXen mod, or something with classes anyways.

[Deleted_Account]

Clonehunter said:

Sounds like a HeXen mod, or something with classes anyways.

I forgot to mention the HeXen characters as well. They're also included!

[wesleyjohnson]

Id ruined the developer story themselves. The actual level maps are not faithful to their story, which leads to players trying to re-rationalize it. Id was just including anything that sounded good.

There are many descriptions of Hell, and there are seven recognized entrances to Hell on earth (which mostly seem to be active volcanic areas). I go through Hell several times a year, and I believe you can visit it (in Nevada ?). Some scientific calculations prove that Heaven is much hotter than Hell, (Heaven has 10 times the light of the sun, but sulfur must be a liquid in Hell). So why should this Hell and these Hellish creatures not be given the most sci-fi compatible rationalization ?
I still think UAC did it and the Icon-of-Sin is their run-amok cloning machine. That would explain why it looks like a big wall. UAC is just trying to avoid responsibility by claiming them to be "demons" and all the damage is due to an "act of Hell".