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arkore

Boom format? But no Boom.cfg for gzdb, and no dynamic lights? Boom != GZDoom?

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I see new projects starting, and they announce to mappers "must be Boom format"

Well, I see "Boom" map format available in DB2 (from Boom.cfg), but I don't see it in GZDB.

I copied Boom.cfg from DB2 to GZDB, but now GZDB shows error "Unable to load GLDEFS: Map type unknown"

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I understand that GLDEFS cannot be loaded for Boom format in GZDB, since Boom engine doesn't support opengl dynamic lighting. But, given the fact that the project can be played on other doom engines that are opengl and do display dynamic lights, it would be nice to see dynamic lights in GZDB as well, so I just know what it "would look like" for dynamic lights from Light Source Things such as torches.

The only Map format that works (for showing dynamic lights in GZDB) is GZDoom map format. But GZDoom map format is not same as Boom map format, despite the fact that a map(saved as GZDoom map format) can still run in prboom-plus engine.

Well, I've already started my project in Boom format.

Should I continue using Boom format (from Boom.cfg) in GZDB? I won't have dynamic lights functionality in GZDB, but I guess I can live with that.

But, should I continue on the route I've gone? Am I doing this right?

I want my project to be, what's known as "Boom compatible"(which I don't entirely know what this means or entails), because that's what appears to be trending now and I believe it means that the project is vanilla-like in the sense that it will run on most engines.

I'm essentially looking to have my project be vanilla(but still breaking vanilla limits) compatible in the sense that it will run on most engines today, and I'm not using UDMF or anything; my project will be a standard "Doom format" project with whatever linedefs that are available for that format.

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Let's see if I can help you out.

  • Vanilla Compatible: will run in the original doom exe's. Every port should support this!
  • Limit Removing: same functions as Vanilla Compatible but without worrying about things like the number of linedefs that can be seen at a time. Almost any port these days is limit removing, apart from Chocolate Doom.
  • Boom Compatible: Boom was a source port of Doom that was extremely popular, that added several new features such as scrolling floors and silent teleporters, and also removed map limits. There are a few source ports that are limit-removing but not Boom compatible, but they're pretty specific. Any port that adds additional features to Doom maps will support Boom features to a high degree, and can be considered "Boom-compatible"
  • GZDoom (Doom Format): This is the name GZDB uses for Doom format maps. As far as I can tell, this uses the same (or very similar) linedef and sector actions as Boom, but also supports ZDoom /GZDoom Things like dynamic lights. This is probably what you want to use for what you're doing, if you want to maintain Boom compatibility but have your map enhanced for GZDoom. PRBoom+ should ignore Things it doesn't recognize like dynamic lights. Make sure to test frequently in both engines though.
  • GZDoom (Hexen Format): This has more feature extensions to the Doom format; as the name implies it's based on the Hexen map format, which is more advanced. Definitely not Boom compatible!
As for what to do with your current project... I think if you load it as GZDoom: Doom (Doom Format) it will work OK?

Hope that helped some.

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arkore said:

..... I copied Boom.cfg from DB2 to GZDB, but now GZDB shows error
"Unable to load GLDEFS: Map type unknown"now .....


Some versions back, MaxEd changed the configuration structure. Therefore, just copying BOOM.cfg
will not work. You would have to also copy all the support files. Even then it might not work, it's too
much to even try.

However, not all is lost. You could try this:
You can rename the GZDoombuilder folder Configuration to, for example, Configuration_org and then
copy/paste all of the Doombuilder2 folder Configuration into your GZDoombuilder folder.

arkore said:

I see new projects starting, and they announce to mappers "must be Boom format" .....


From that I would take it that the map should be strictly using features only found in the BOOM engine,
which means that dynamic lights and 3D constructs cannot be used. Because BOOM does not support them.

Mapping for the BOOM format does not mean that only BOOM can be used to play a BOOM format map.
Many new ports, such as ZDoom are fully BOOM compatible, which means that they understand the features
used in a BOOM format map.

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Thanks guys.

plums said:
As for what to do with your current project... I think if you load it as GZDoom: Doom (Doom Format) it will work OK?[/B]

Well, I guess so; that is, if GZDoom: Doom (Doom Format) includes all the features of Boom, then yes.

I guess my problem with that, is I don't know which features are "Boom only" if I were to starting working in GZDoom: Doom (Doom format). For example, if I look at a sector's Generalized settings, the dropdowns/options available are quite different(when on GZDoom format) than what they are if I was in Boom format. My problem would be that I may start using a feature, and not realize it that that feature is not Boom. I suppose I can get around this problem by continously testing and testing, but I find it more comfortable to just stick with Boom format(config) and have only those features listed in the dropdowns and such.

Would be cool if GZDB could label or highlight each feature as what engines it is compatible with, but I guess that would be difficult for the GZDB developer/programmer to do since it would require custom dropdown(select) menus and such.

All in all, I guess I'll have to live with using Boom in GZDB and therefore not having GLDEFS(Dynamic lights) showing up in GZDB.

Kappes Buur said:

Some versions back, MaxEd changed the configuration structure. Therefore, just copying BOOM.cfg
will not work. You would have to also copy all the support files. Even then it might not work, it's too
much to even try.

Well, from what I can see, those support files already exist. If you look in Configurations/Includes/ folder, you see the Boom_*.cfg files there already. Strange that GZDB has those, but doesn't have Configuration/Boom.cfg to begin with(which is why I copied this from DB2).

Kappes Buur said:

However, not all is lost. You could try this:
You can rename the GZDoombuilder folder Configuration to, for example, Configuration_org and then
copy/paste all of the Doombuilder2 folder Configuration into your GZDoombuilder folder.

If I did that, then I would lose the GZDoom configs, based on this comparison report I see: http://d.pr/i/S6TU -- I don't understand why GZDB comes with it's only set of Configuration *.cfg files, despite the fact that they look very similar in nature(which is expect, since GZDB is based off DB2 anyways). Why GZDB doesn't have all the config files that DB2 has, and has only 3 config files that are called GZDoom. Is this because of what plums said (above) where "GZDoom" is only a name that GZDB uses to identify configs for mapping in GZDB? I thought "GZDoom" was an engine port as well, but I guess not. Either way, I think this is strange for GZDB to do. Why you need "GZDoom" branded config files for GZDB? lol.

But even if this were to swap the folders like that, I couldn't possibly believe this would work flawlessly. I have to assume that this would inadvertently cause other hidden problems.

Kappes Buur said:

From that I would take it that the map should be strictly using features only found in the BOOM engine,
which means that dynamic lights and 3D constructs cannot be used. Because BOOM does not support them.

Yeah. I just think it would be nice for GZDB to display dynamic lighting anyways regardless of what format you're using. I don't see why it's a problem.

Would be nice to know what dynamic lighting would look like (in your Boom project) because you know your project will get played on other engines as well(that other people use).

Kappes Buur said:

Mapping for the BOOM format does not mean that only BOOM can be used to play a BOOM format map.
Many new ports, such as ZDoom are fully BOOM compatible, which means that they understand the features
used in a BOOM format map.

Exactly.

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arkore said:

I guess my problem with that, is I don't know which features are "Boom only" if I were to starting working in GZDoom: Doom (Doom format). For example, if I look at a sector's Generalized settings, the dropdowns/options available are quite different(when on GZDoom format) than what they are if I was in Boom format.


Ah, OK, they are pretty different. Fortunately the config files are pretty easy to compare to get a sense of what's the same and what's not. Here's a quickly made list (no guarantees about being complete or correct though!):

Sectors

  • Predefined sector types 0-17 match, the rest don't exist in Boom.
  • The generalized sector types don't match up well, perhaps not at all. Safest to avoid them and stick to predefined types. Unfortunately this cuts you off from a few effects, but you can get most of them through linedef actions instead.
  • Floor and ceiling textures (flats) are distinct from wall textures in Boom. You need to pick only flats for the floor and ceiling. These are all 64x64 (no wall textures in doom2.wad exist in these dimensions).
Linedefs/Sidedefs
  • Predefined types are all available in Boom except those in the Plane category.
  • Generalized types all match up AFAICT.
  • Don't choose any textures that are 64x64 because those aren't wall textures.
  • There are quirks about using some textures in Boom/Doom, e.g. Anything that's not 128px high produces visual errors if it has to tile. ZDoom may be more forgiving about things like this.
Things
  • Only 4 player starts in Boom.
  • "Teleport (Z Height and Gravity)" and "Teleport (Z Height)" don't exist in Boom.
  • Particle Fountains in Decoration category don't exist.
  • No things in these categories exist: Bridges, Marines, Sounds, Cameras and Interpolation, Sector Actions, Slopes, ZDoom, Portals, Dynamic Lights.
  • Most Decorations and Lights are Fully Blocking in Boom (i.e. you can't pass over/under them) but not in ZDoom. I don't think the list in DB is accurate, maybe there's a list somewhere online.

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