Going Down

[mouldy]

plums said:

That's GLBoom+. I might have tweaked the lighting settings recently, can't remember. Which monsters should be in the shadows, all of them?

And yeah, I'm not surprised if there are some missing textures in there, I imagine getting that all working properly was quite the ordeal.

Right, glboom seems to have its own ideas about brightness. The HOMs have been fixed, but the problem I have now is that I'm using action 261 to change the ceiling brightness to dark, and in prboom that makes all the items black even though the floor they are on is still bright. Zdoom seems to use whichever brightness the sector itelf is at for lighting items and monsters, regardless of action 261. And glboom just doesn't seem to give a shit either way and makes everything bright.

So I either have weird bright patches on the ceiling in glboom/zdoom or weird dark items on the floor in prboom..

[plums]

Huh, weird. Maybe post in the PrBoom+ thread? That sounds kind of like a bug. I wonder how original boom.exe handles that linetype, I would imagine it's the same as PrBoom+ in software mode but I've never tried.

[mouldy]

Ok, its slightly weirder than I realised. This shot is from the exact same map in 3 different ports



Seems like each one has different priorities about which brightness to use for items/monsters. I've no idea which one is correct, so who is to say which is a bug and which isn't.

Monsters on the left are in a sector with zero brightness and floor special to 192 brightness
monsters in the middle are in a sector with 192 brightness and ceiling/floor specials to zero brightness
medkits on the right are in sector with 192 brightness and ceiling special to zero brightness.

[plums]

since you've made a demo map already, can you post it and I'll try it in some other ports?

[dobu gabu maru]

Aha, of course Demon and Ribbiks get through MAP24 unscathed :P I think my initial gripes with it really were based on how I saved myself into an utterly abysmal situation while playing. I wonder what they would think of the original, slightly more cramped rendition. Anyway, I did a goofy little marathon on HNTR/continuous and just wrote up some thoughts.

MAP01: I’d change the green armor to blue since the zombiemen are surprisingly vicious on this level.

MAP02: Played fine, no problems. Once the player has a good footing on continuous the first half of the megawad usually becomes quite relaxed.

MAP03: Easier than the other maps here but it’s still pretty fun. I’m guessing it’ll be startling for HNTR players to have to rely on the chainsaw so much.

MAP04: IMO on both HNTR and HMP I’d make sure both cacos are there to come out of the windows after you pick up the RL, because the encounter is rather toothless otherwise.

MAP05: Out of all the things to die to, my first death comes to a fucking pinky. Little too much rocket ammo here, but playing continuously means that I’ll wind up being overstocked anyway.

MAP06: No issues with this one—the surplus of rockets let me be a little wild and almost blow myself up, but there was usually enough health to patch that up. This is definitely the first map that gives the player a hint of what is to come (regarding the insane monster warp-ins).

MAP07: This is alright, but I think it needs two things—since the soulsphere is handed right at the start I think you could put another manc down below (it’s really light at the start as is), and I think you should remove two revs from the post-blue key fight and put in like 4-6 cacos instead (just so the player has meatier enemies to soak up damage, as the revs go down fast and finish the map on a whimper). You could also probably remove 10 rockets on skills 2 & 3 too.

MAP08: It’s silly playing some of these maps with the claws ripped out of them. The pinkie rush at the end is actually a good fight on HNTR though.

MAP09: As opposed to MAP06, the big warp-in is actually really manageable as long as you know to use the side passage ways. Not sure that anything really needs to change for HNTR… maybe a few zombiemen or something to come out with the chaingunners when you tap one of the switches.

MAP10: It’s fun playing these old maps and remembering “oh yeah, here’s where I got destroyed”. This map is actually pretty tough on HNTR—I think the spot where the megasphere comes down at the end might be a bit too obscure when all the fighting is going on. Perhaps you could remove a rev in the post-RL fight too, but then again I guess the wad has to show it’s fangs at some point.

MAP11: Good call with the invul. I had a surprisingly smooth time here, mainly because the cyber battle went so well. Only thing you could change was maybe switching a few of the revs post-yellow key to HKs, but it’s not that dire of a thing considering there’s a lot of health around to patch the player up If need be.

MAP12: This one gets a bit crazy with all the warp-ins… wound up dying quite a bit. Either needs less bulky monsters or probably a megasphere down in the pit for players.

MAP13: The stairs don’t hold the same terror this time around as I never had to back into a corner. Fine level on HNTR, the pit is definitely the toughest spot but I’m not sure any of it needs changing.

MAP14: Had a pretty smooth time through this one too—I think there’s a bit too many pinkies at the PG trap (the one in the middle of the map), but otherwise it plays well. You could also probably add another arach at the mastermind platform.

I saved over my MAP15 start so I'm taking a break. It's a surprisingly quick series of maps to speed through.

[mouldy]

plums said:

since you've made a demo map already, can you post it and I'll try it in some other ports?

I think what i'll do is make a post about it on the editing forum and see if any experts there can shed some light on it, I'll post a demo map there.

dobu gabu maru said:

Aha, of course Demon and Ribbiks get through MAP24 unscathed :P I think my initial gripes with it really were based on how I saved myself into an utterly abysmal situation while playing. I wonder what they would think of the original, slightly more cramped rendition. Anyway, I did a goofy little marathon on HNTR/continuous and just wrote up some thoughts.

Interestingly, both Demon and Ribbiks totally ignored the extra space I added, and the cybers and hordes from the other tower virtually obliterated each other. I've been tinkering with map24, its hard to test though because it seems to be so random its different every time I play, but removing one of the masterminds and adding another cyber seems to liven things up a bit. You will still be totally stuffed if you save in the wrong place I guess (or just get some bad luck), hopefully the map is short enough that starting again isn't so bad.

Cheers for the HNTR run through, I had a go myself the other day and managed the whole thing in an hour. I like to think of easy setting as the one your mum could play, though I also found its a good setting for brutal doom (UV is kind of unplayable with that mod). I didn't expend that much effort in balancing the lower difficulties so your feedback will be very useful.

[The_MártonJános]

mouldy said:

Cool, looks like you are having more fun on lower difficulty. I guess map22 is some kind of giant toilet for the monster you were previously running around inside.

I suppose that's a futuristic toilet with all the machinery around and inside.

[Katamori]

MAP23. Took a while to find out things. You hidedsome switches to damn evil places!

Also, you get some musical surprise in this video :P

[mouldy]

Hmm yeah, maybe I should at least mark the skull keys on the computer map... You got there in the end though, well done. Your video is very dark by the way, dunno if its just my screen, but I can hardly see whats going on in some parts.

[Katamori]

mouldy said:

Your video is very dark by the way, dunno if its just my screen, but I can hardly see whats going on in some parts.

Yeah, mistake of Bandicam. Can't you make your screen brighter somehow while watching? Cause I already rendered the majority of the vids sooo...it's hard to redo, you know.

[mouldy]

Yeah think its more noticeable with that map just because its quite dark anyway in places, should be ok for most of the others

[joe-ilya]

Will you include the demos I posted here in the wad?

[mouldy]

I'll probably just make some myself if I need to, but cheers anyway

[Dime]

Doing this one on stream right now. Interested to see how it plays out.

twitch.tv/kingdime

[mouldy]

Dime said:

Doing this one on stream right now. Interested to see how it plays out.

twitch.tv/kingdime

heh, cool, I just missed the first few maps. Bit late here but I'll try and drop in when you restart.

[Dime]

Ya that was bad timing haha. Im just starving and wanted a small break.

[mouldy]

Here is an updated version of the wad:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/annbis6oqf894f6/goingdownE3-sept27.zip

This is probably going to be the last update before uploading to idgames, so let me know if anyone finds anything screwy.

Changes in this update..
Other than numerous cosmetic and bug fixes there are also some minor gameplay tweaks to some maps:
map22 - bit more monster navigation to make camping harder
map23 - less health and few more archviles at the end
map24 - red key fight is now minus one mastermind and plus one cyberdemon (and a few friends)
map25 - extra blue key monsters why not
map28 - invuls will only appear if you wake the monsters before grabbing the blue key. Its still possible to do the map without firing a shot, just a bit trickier.

[tmorrow]

Oh man, I just got through all the maps. All my coward strategies have now been patched! Back to the drawing board, downloading now.

[joe-ilya]

mouldy said:

Here is an updated version of the wad:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/annbis6oqf894f6/goingdownE3-sept27.zip

My demos are still not there. Oh well.

[tmorrow]

Good work with the patch, I believe it addresses most of the identified issues.

re-review of the patched maps

map22 I didn't notice much difference in this one since I decided against camping (as warned by the patch) and it seemed to work out fine.

map23 Improved, more difficult and scarier. The map has a good ammo and health balance now. I was low on health and out of ammo at the end, mostly owing to being unlucky with some arch viles. They kept hiding behind meat shields and refusing to come out and be slapped down by some rockets. I was caught unaware by a new roaming revenant and got blasted by the double arch vile tag team surprise at the yellow key up on the upper balcony of the room with the rocket launcher.

map24 Eek, no hiding now. The red key section is much more difficult. It took me several attempts to get through it. I found it easier in the end to trigger both the Spider Mastermind/Imps and the cyberdemons all at once rather than separately. You can still hide in the teleporters (and I did) but it is much more dangerous now.

map25 The extra enemies at the end make sense, it was too easy before. I didn't notice anything else different about the map.

map28 The map is now more difficult than when I could sneak the blue key first, so your patch is working! I ended up taking on the first two waves without using the invulnerabilities. That second wave consisting of revenants/hellknights/arachnotrons is a nasty one, I hid for a while in the small rooms on the right side of the map. Chaining the 3 invulnerabilities after that on the remaining waves is hit or miss for me. After 5 attempts I finally got one that worked out for me.

[mouldy]

tmorrow said:

map24 Eek, no hiding now. The red key section is much more difficult. It took me several attempts to get through it. I found it easier in the end to trigger both the Spider Mastermind/Imps and the cyberdemons all at once rather than separately. You can still hide in the teleporters (and I did) but it is much more dangerous now.

Cheers for the extra feedback man. Map24 in particular needed some work, and its still pretty random, but you hit on the best technique I think of activating everything at once (one of the few maps where this is a good idea) since the mastermind can then help you with all the other stuff - it even pays to help keep him alive when he gets swamped by angry minions. Hiding in the teleporters is an option of course, and I like to give people options in maps (even cowardly ones heh).

[Demon of the Well]

That it's so easy to unwittingly stumble around triggering 87 different ambushes at once is one of the best things about this mapset. Only fitting that once in a while doing that is actually the wisest strategy!

[mouldy]

Demon of the Well said:

That it's so easy to unwittingly stumble around triggering 87 different ambushes at once is one of the best things about this mapset. Only fitting that once in a while doing that is actually the wisest strategy!

I have an excellent strategy for map15 along those lines:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/bh63vm9wtbn9579/gd-mouldy-15.lmp

[tourniquet]

mouldy said:

[b]

map28 - invuls will only appear if you wake the monsters before grabbing the blue key.

haha thats a smart move..

Hope you spotted all bugs, gonna do another complete playtrough somewhen soon, or maybe this will be featured in one of the upcoming megawadclubs.

[mouldy]

tourniquet said:

haha thats a smart move..

Hope you spotted all bugs, gonna do another complete playtrough somewhen soon, or maybe this will be featured in one of the upcoming megawadclubs.

I just know that I've missed some stupid stuff, so further testing is always appreciated. Also I went through the whole wad fixing the annoying walkover clunking sounds, so I've probably broken something in the process :)

[Suitepee]

I hope this gets picked for the DWMegawad Club next month, so I can finally get around to playing it. I caught the first 3 levels on KingDime's stream the other day and liked what I saw of Going Down, so am eagerly awaiting a DWMegawad Club-sized excuse to finally get around to playing this.

Plus it would massively help in playtesting for you mouldy.

[mouldy]

Suitepee said:

I hope this gets picked for the DWMegawad Club next month, so I can finally get around to playing it. I caught the first 3 levels on KingDime's stream the other day and liked what I saw of Going Down, so am eagerly awaiting a DWMegawad Club-sized excuse to finally get around to playing this.

Plus it would massively help in playtesting for you mouldy.

Cheers man. I've had a lot of great feedback so far, so I feel like its pretty much done and dusted.. But when it comes to playtesting, the more the merrier.

[kmxexii]

having a lot of fun with this even if im gettin tore up on UV. the crazy fights never seem completely out of my grasp. thank you for the troll MAP14, i love puzzle shit and your complete contempt for the player is refreshing

[mouldy]

kmxexii said:

having a lot of fun with this even if im gettin tore up on UV. the crazy fights never seem completely out of my grasp. thank you for the troll MAP14, i love puzzle shit and your complete contempt for the player is refreshing

haha, that map definitely is trollsome. I think that map hates the player nearly as much as the monsters do.

[kmxexii]

oh btw i am really diggin the music, i know some people hate it but its got this duke 3d meets gentle giant meets insanity that's great, very different