Abcess.wad Public Beta -- 6 Maps -- Download Link Now Working

[Steve D]

Abcess is a set of maps I worked on after Realm of Chaos was finished. These maps were all more or less complete by 1998. Three of them were previously released in their original form. Map03, which was the original Map01, was given to Realm of Chaos in 1997 to replace one of the 1996 maps. Map04 was released to idgames in 1999 under the title Disraeli, and Map06 was released in 1997 or 1998 to the AOL MacDoom libraries under the title Mordecai.

These are oldschool maps because they're, like, old.;D As originally designed they were mostly large, exploration-based maps. For the update, I decided to keep the oldschool flavor but bump up the monster count, while keeping health mostly the same for nastier combat. For example, on UV, the monster count of Map06 went from 284 to 365. A high percentage of the new monsters are high-tier. Health and ammo is occasionally stingy.

Although these maps are old, I did add quite a bit of detail, primarily lighting and wall details, plus some sunken floors. The only map with a significant new section is Map05, where the south end of the map is new.

This mapset is optimized for pistol start, which provides a steady ramp-up in difficulty. In my testing, Map06 is too easy if you play continuous.

I haven't added any titlepics or new music. I might actually need help on that score. ;)

Enough babble. Here's the screenies and the file.

Screenshots

Map01
http://imageshack.com/i/5ehry4p
http://imageshack.com/i/jj9xwkp

Map02
http://imageshack.com/i/5mmkpgp

Map03
http://imageshack.com/i/0z3p6vp
http://imageshack.com/i/ns3xtwp

Map04
http://imageshack.com/i/0uw1mip
http://imageshack.com/i/nefxrnp

Map05
http://imageshack.com/i/5immthp
http://imageshack.com/i/n6zy2sp

Map06
http://imageshack.com/i/jj8mb0p
http://imageshack.com/i/092kfbp

Mapset: http://www.mediafire.com/download/ap7tu83t198par8/Abcess66.wad

[Dragonsbrethren]

Mediafire's saying Invalid or Deleted File.

[Steve D]

Thanks for the heads-up. Download link is fixed. For some reason, the URL substituted one part for something else.

[General Rainbow Bacon]

These maps are awesome. One thing: In map 06 the cyberdemon pits in that lava room should be lowered so their heads don't stick up out of them.

[Steve D]

Thanks, General! That's funny about the Cyberdemon pits. I never noticed it because I'm always looking to my left in that area.;D

I noticed another problem in Map02 last night where a monster closet has a Hell Knight and a Sergeant in it on UV, when it should only be the Hell Knight. I was playing on GZDoom and luckily, they didn't get stuck together, but it could happen.

I'll make the fixes but I won't update the download file just yet, since these flaws don't break anything.

[CarpetolA]

I have played the first two levels so far, and they are awesome! I'm curious on how these maps looked originally! Do you have links to them? =)

[Steve D]

CarpetolA said:

I have played the first two levels so far, and they are awesome! I'm curious on how these maps looked originally! Do you have links to them? =)

Thanks! And just remember, you asked for it! ;D

Map03 of Abcess originally appeared in May of 1997 under the title Splatterhouse as Map06 of the Realm of Chaos megawad. Realm of Chaos was originally released on Halloween night, 1996. Eventually, we were told to replace the original Map06 because it was too much like E1M9, and Splatterhouse was chosen even though it wasn't quite finished. Although I'm revising all my Realm of Chaos maps too (almost finished!), I decided to pull this map and put it back in Abcess. Here's the Realm of Chaos link; http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?id=10513

Map04 of Abcess was uploaded to idgames in 1999 under the title Disraeli. Note that it plays on Map27. One of the secrets is inaccessible in this version; http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?id=10214

The oldest version of the current Map01 of Abcess is an incomplete map dated 10/16/1998. It has the full basic structure of the map, but is missing the elevated monsters and a lot of detail. Some areas of the map are inaccessible because the switches weren't all there yet, and while the exit room exists, there's no stairs to the door and no actual exit. Sectors for the stairs exist, but are all set at floor height. I was also still playing around with textures. Even though there's fewer monsters, there's also less health and ammo, so you can get killed if you're not careful.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/9j79wyuqpbrrm06/ABCESS21.WAD

Finally, I made an attempt to put together most of the Abcess maps under a different title -- ICKY4EVR -- in 2001. This one has the current Map02 in the Map01 slot, and the original Map02 was eventually removed from the set since it has a number of design problems, even though it plays nicely enough. Missing from this file is the current Map01 and Map03. http://www.mediafire.com/download/cjrkx3ci4sesbe7/ICKY4EVR.WAD

So there it is. Maybe some of the changes I made aren't the best. For example, I might go back to that E4 sky, instead of the Sky2 from Realm of Chaos that I have now.

As for the reason I let these maps sit for 12 years, it's mainly because these were made on a Mac using the Mac-based editor Hellmaker, which was probably the nicest Doom editor around until Doom Builder became the best ever. Alas, some time between 2002 - 2003, I bought new Macs only to discover that it was impossible to register Hellmaker, and since I didn't like any of the DOS/Windows editors, I quit mapping altogether until I went for Doom Builder in 2011.

And that's the name of that tune. ;D

[Demon of the Well]

Hey, Steve, during the RoC playthrough I promised I'd play the next WAD you came out with, and so I'll be spending some time with this tonight. I should have some FDAs for you eventually. 'Splatterhouse' was one of your most well-made maps in RoC (though also probably the least threatening to life and limb), and these are apparently all from around that same 'era' of DuffMapping, so I expect a good time.

[Steve D]

Demon of the Well said:

Hey, Steve, during the RoC playthrough I promised I'd play the next WAD you came out with, and so I'll be spending some time with this tonight. I should have some FDAs for you eventually. 'Splatterhouse' was one of your most well-made maps in RoC (though also probably the least threatening to life and limb), and these are apparently all from around that same 'era' of DuffMapping, so I expect a good time.

Hi, DoTW. My prayers have been answered! :)

Rest assured that I listened to everything you guys said during the DWMC's RoC month. and I left in that one sneaky jump as you requested. ;)

In other news, I'm polishing up Map23 of RoC, leaving only Map27, but that revision will take awhile. The violence level of the RoC maps has gone way up in most of them, especially Map22.

I decided to pull my tech map from the Team Mapping Project since there's plenty of time to do another one -- if necessary. :D That map should appear in a month or so and is generally much more difficult than anything you've seen from me so far.

Last but not least, I'm 2 maps away from finishing my E1 replacement. I promise a LOT of action. That should be out in January, perhaps earlier.

Looking forward to your comments and FDAs. I also plan to at least try to play your baby, Vile Flesh, which is leading the pack for the DWMC. We'll see if I can keep up. ;)

[Cynical]

...Is map 01 even possible?

Seriously, I just died here about a million times, and I have no clue how this can possibly be done. There's little health, there's no armor that I can figure out how to get to, there's virtually no ammo (and no melee weapons), and the enemy population is almost all hitscanners, so whether I get hit or not is nothing but pure chance.

Here's the recorded FDA, with a million deaths and no exit: http://www.mediafire.com/download/iw95xgrc0t65fsk/abcess1.lmp

EDIT:
Ok, just ran map 02. Much more playable than map 01. Those Revenants at the end are an awkward choice; they're hard to advance against on that bridge. Maybe widen the bridge, add a touch of cover, and replace them with an Arachnotron?

FDA (some deaths before the exit): http://www.mediafire.com/download/0fducoogznttc4r/abcess2.lmp

[plums]

Almost-FDA for Map 01 (I had a false start and played it for ~30 seconds before recording this.) Didn't find it too hard though finding that secret stash of shells sure helped. Excuse the occasional pause in action; I guess I got lucky that the imp that snuck up on me during one of them me waited until I was ready.

http://www.mediafire.com/?ybhgo4krkgwtm2y

EDIT: Cynical, having watched your demo I bet you'd have been OK had you found the secret in the start. I agree that there's a lot of luck for how much damage you take in this map, maybe too much for the amount of health around.

[Cynical]

Map 02, forgot to mention that the RL secret is utterly pointless. You get two shots with that rocket launcher, which isn't nearly enough to kill the crap that getting the secret unleashes. Why would you make a secret that's actively harmful to find?

Map 03, ugh. So, you find two big secrets, and what's your reward at the end of it? An Arch-Vile with no cover and no weapon bigger than a shotgun, flanked by a group of pinkies. Oh, and there's a Mancubus nearby that he can decide to resurrect.

WTF.

FDA, two or three deaths, doesn't exit (ragequit after the ridiculous Vile): http://www.mediafire.com/download/9oxxpfi19w1tyrf/abcess3.lmp

[Steve D]

Cynical said:

...Is map 01 even possible?

Seriously, I just died here about a million times, and I have no clue how this can possibly be done. There's little health, there's no armor that I can figure out how to get to, there's virtually no ammo (and no melee weapons), and the enemy population is almost all hitscanners, so whether I get hit or not is nothing but pure chance.

First, thanks a ton for your FDAs. I watched the Map01 FDA, and will watch the Map02 in a couple minutes, but first, I wanted to answer your Map01 questions.

You were playing really well, and you almost had it a couple times. The ideal path for me is to immediately go forward and around the right-hand side of the central structure, taking out the zombieboys and grabbing the health. This path keeps you from fighting the elevated Sergeants to your left.

Once I pass the right side of the structure, I circle back to the first Brown1 hallway on the left of the central structure, and which has the big windows showing the Blue Armor outside. This section is an E1M1 homage, so at the end of the hallway is the secret door leading outside. There's 2 Sergeants waiting for you in the lowered hallway. Kill them, plus the outside roaming Sergeant and 2 Imps, and go find the box of shells out there. This gives you the ammo to beat the map. You can't get the Blue Armor yet.

It's not quite necessary to get those shells to beat the map, because in the big Tekgren room, you pressed a switch that lowers a platform giving access to the elevated Sergeants at the start of the map. You ran right past it once when it was down. Not only do you get all their shotguns, but you gain access to a switch that lowers the platform containing a Medikit and Green Armor.

What I was hoping to achieve in this map is a survivalist gameplay with lots of hitscanners causing the player to get disoriented from having to keep turning all the time. Based on your comments, I might make it easier to get a shotgun early by putting a floor-level Sergeant in there. A Zerk is possible, too, though it might make the map too easy. I could also make the first secret door more obvious, since finding that stash of ammo is very important.

Thanks again, Cynical!

[Demon of the Well]

Okay, here are the FDAs for maps 1-3, skill 4 and PRBoom+ complevel 2. A few comments to follow, as well as the FDAs for the other half of the maps when I get time to play 05 and 06.

Cynical: Yeah man, quite possible. If you play several of his maps you'll quickly find that Steve loves his hitscanners, and I guess long-ish maps that are mostly hitscanners require a slightly different playstyle than what lots of folks are used to, but you'll get used to it if you see it enough.

Edit:
Map 01 -- I kind of like the look of this level. It's simple, but big, unusual in a map 01. I'm generally not much of a fan of IWAD homages, but the one here is optional/minor, so no big deal. If you don't find one of the secrets right away (and I don't) there's some austerity in the ammo department, and health is tightly balanced in general, but it's still quite doable with a little luck and some good target-prioritization, although I may have been lucky not taking more damage in the teleporting imp trap.

Map 02 -- Strange one, this, looks and feels like a series of experiments, especially the way it builds up to the big 3D bridge that doesn't actually have a lot going on around it. No real sense of theme, either, even by the standards of a map as old as this is. Shells again seem a bit scarce at first, but there's enough ammo to make it through. Might be tougher in an 'attrition map' sort of way if the secrets weren't so easy. About secrets, I think you should put a few more rockets in, even just 3-4 singles or a lone case in the corridor that leads up to the rocket launcher itself would suffice. They're hardly necessary, of course, that'd just let you take a few more shots of your choice with the launcher, which sees very little use as it is. As you surmised, outside of ZDooM-family ports the sergeant and the HK you mentioned are indeed stuck together. The big trap near the second soulsphere is funny, obviously a modern addition....the player is just sort of tooling along in 199x-land, and then all of a sudden it's something from HR II for a minute there. It's jarring and a bit out of place, to be sure, but I think you should keep it--it's a good wakeup call.

Map 03 -- Not exactly a real 'FDA' I suppose, since I have played 'Splatterhouse' in RoC before. It's largely as I remember, although I feel like I missed the early berserk pack, you seem to have retooled a certain zombie-trapped switch to be non-mandatory (?), and a certain chainsaw area (still accessible by a certain ledge-jump, I did indeed notice ;) ) has unexpectedly gotten a LOT more dangerous. Still looks better/more thematically coherent than the first two maps, as well. Just like with map 02, I again wish there were just a handful more of rockets to be had, again purely in the name of fun rather than balance/need. All that aside, there's still some work to be done on this one......the map malfunctions horribly (though harmlessly from a completion standpoint) in a couple of places, outdoors and near the yellow door. You'll see what I mean in the demo.

[Cynical]

Map 04: here's the FDA, no successful exits, a few deaths:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/7wx5pczqe8orbir/abcess4.lmp

At the start, I'd recommend adding a single-barrel at the same place the Chainsaw and SSG are. Right now, for those of us who use PRBoom-Plus, the auto-weapon switch that happens on killing the first Sergeant is a pain in the ass. Likewise, in the secret with the Plasma Rifle and the Berserk, the auto-weapon switch when you grab the Zerk, with a Baron right in your face, is rage inducing.

That room with the four lifts is really annoying, although I don't think there's an easy way to fix it.

The Revenant and Arch-Vile warp-ins in the Blue/Red key room are bleagh. The angle is awkward enough that the best way to play it is to just run back to a door and snipe from there, which isn't exactly entertaining or exciting.

The Mastermind is nothing but a time and ammo sink. The end needs more ammo; I eventually died from literally running out of every bullet against those ending Viles (and Tysoning them out isn't really viable, because of the Chaingunners and lack of a real "pillar" to use). Slightly different ammo management earlier might have kept me alive, sure, but at the end of a long map, finding out "oh, I die now because I didn't have foreknowledge of this *exact* situation" isn't exactly appreciated.

[Steve D]

Cynical said:

The Mastermind is nothing but a time and ammo sink. The end needs more ammo; I eventually died from literally running out of every bullet against those ending Viles (and Tysoning them out isn't really viable, because of the Chaingunners and lack of a real "pillar" to use). Slightly different ammo management earlier might have kept me alive, sure, but at the end of a long map, finding out "oh, I die now because I didn't have foreknowledge of this *exact* situation" isn't exactly appreciated.

Thanks again for your commentary, Cynical. It will help make the maps better in the end. Watching your FDAs, it occurs to me that some of these maps have obtuse progression, something I don't experience playing them on my own because I know exactly where to go. Some of the maps feel a bit switch-hunty, too.

I should explain my playstyle, which may help illuminate some of the odd features of these maps. I started playing on Macs, and since it is impossible to record demos on MacDoom, there was never any incentive to make maps that are beatable in one go. Indeed, I like to get killed when playing Doom. In fact, I prefer to get killed at least 3 times in every map, and try to design maps with that goal in mind. I really don't get frustrated until I get killed more than 20 times, like I did when playtesting E2M5 of Concerned, but i loved that map. I'm a masochist. ;D Because I like to get killed, I play with frequent save/reload so that I can re-fight battles where I get wasted until I find the right strategy to win, or just get lucky.

Also, because of joining the Doomworld Megawad Club, I've played a lot of newer and harder maps that wiped the floor with me. When the DWMC played Realm of Chaos, I figured I'd get some revenge, but instead, I wasn't killing players like I hoped for, so I decided to make all of my maps more difficult. Some of the Realm of Chaos maps now have new sections that are semi-slaughter sandbox arenas.

Obviously, this can make life tough on people doing FDAs, especially in maps that might go for 45 or 50 minutes. I probably wouldn't even try to demo one of my maps on UV. HMP max for this kid.

A couple notes -- The Archie in Map03 really is a super-nasty dick trap. However, you can escape that trap by grabbing the radsuit -- and go just far enough forward to accomplish that -- and then go back out the way you came in. Personally, I always like to fight the Archie, and use the chainsaw lift for cover. You can also go into the Archie's room and into the cubby there with the radsuit, and a lot of times he won't turn the corner while you blast him. Natch, it's helpful if you've found the secret SSG and/or PG first. Indeed, one of the things I'm looking at is whether these maps are too annoyingly hard if players don't find the better secrets. This particular trap is one where I have about a 35% chance of surviving the first try.

Map04 -- thanks for the tip about providing a shotgun as well as the SSG at the start. As for the Zerk/PG secret, yeah, that can happen if you dodge around after grabbing the PG. Best thing is to just stand and deliver at the Baron with the PG, with maybe a little sidestep. I usually grab the Zerk after the Chaingunners descend because I need the health. ;D The SpiderBoss does take a lot of ammo, and I was wondering whether to keep her or not, but I've been dusted by her a few times, so she is potentially lethal. Originally, it was just 2 Arachnotrons and a Revvie up there. I only added the SM within the last couple weeks. That final Archie -- you can get cover by backing out of the room and dropping into the water and dodging around one of the Revvie pillars. In fact, jumping into the water is a good way to take out all those Chaingunners in the windows, because the angle is too steep for them to shoot at you while you hit them in the head.

Secrets -- you almost always have to fight for secrets in my maps. It's the influence of E1M3. I just take it to extremes sometimes. The RL secret in Map02 is a legacy of my old habit of playing continuously. You get the RL in Map02 and don't need to find it in Map03. Same thing with the cell charge in Map02 when there's no PG. I have to get rid of that. I could put some more rockets down in the nukage so that the radsuit isn't just handy for picking off Imps or fighting the cacos from below.

Sorry for all the babble. And thanks again, your input is much appreciated.

[Demon of the Well]

Alright, as promised, here are the other three FDAs. They're all around 30-35 minutes long (they are all big maps, after all), so you probably won't want to watch them all at once. Generally speaking I liked these last three more than the first three (although none of them top 'Splatterhouse' purely in terms of sense of place), whatever that's worth. Again, commentary to come via edit later, once I can find time to watch the demos myself.

Edit:
Map 04 -- Hubspoke map, although a bit oddly paced in that it takes a long time to get the first key, and then the other two follow in very short order once you return to the spoke. I had no real resource issues, but of course I found most of the secrets (being able to hear the imps in the berserk pack secret for most of the map was bugging me, hence why I go back to look for something in that area after getting the computer area map); no complaints about the number of rockets this time, indeed I could've used the RL a lot more than I did. I didn't really care for the little network of lifts/corridors/gratings/switches around the blue armor, but things improve from there. I'd suggest adding a pain elemental or two instead of the lost souls that come through the windows in the big nukage room with the latter two keys, that would be a good environment for them. The spider mastermind area's a bit surprising, almost like something straight out of a Michael Krause map architecturally. I think the mastermind is fine, myself, but I also think the map should've ended there....all of the stuff behind the last door felt like it was just padding on an already large map.

Map 05 -- At first this seemed a little dry and slow to me, a lot like map 01 in that there was a marked paucity of ammo, but requiring less concentration due to fewer hitscanners. I wasn't afraid of death early on, but I was beginning to worry I was going to have to start leaving a lot of stuff alive until I found a secret or something. Eventually I start to build up a little bit of a nest-egg, around the area with the mancs on pillars. A little suggestion about the teleporting enemies in that room...instead of two chaingunners and a revenant, make it two revenants and a chaingunner, and teleport the chaingunner back at the start of the hall the player moves down to hit the switch. Obviously I smell trouble when I see the megasphere in that huge bare area, so I'm not initially surprised when the little closets open and shit starts pouring out....but I didn't expect the spiderdemon! I like the way it's used here, it can actually move around and tends to dominate the corridor.; I'd like to say I planned bypassing it by distracting it with the distant arachnatrons, but in truth that was really more of a happy accident....and then shit really starts to hit the fan, right around the Y-lift area. You didn't kill me, Steve, but you had me pissing my pants there for a bit, and I loved it. After floundering about ineffectually for a bit I eventually develop a cunning plan to get the cyber off my back, and it works well, the poor semi-mechanical bastard. From there it's a pretty easy ride. An issue that may or may not concern you is that a lot of the secrets show in one way or another on the regular automap--after I get the BFG and return from abusing the poor cyberdemon, I spend a lot of time looking at the automap and finding earlier secrets from it, and then I do the same thing again when I first happen upon the exit. Decided to call it quits at 6/8.

Map 06 -- Haha, you and your giant stucco rooms and wacky Wolf3D secrets, Steve. This one is kind of over-the-top in more ways than one. Tons of ammo and a lot of health around this time, the main issue is just surviving the fights. Really, there are only two very dangerous battles, and they come at the beginning and at the end of the map, so during the long middle stretch you're just sort of along for the ride. I like the huge open spaces here, but I imagine they won't be to everyone's taste. I'd say the secrets are a bit overpowered, now that I think of it, since after the first big clusterfuck I was firmly in control until the last four-cyber fight (the cybers' heads stick up out of the ground before they fastraise, incidentally, which looks really silly) as a result of finding them, and would've maintained control even then if I hadn't embarrassed myself being badly injured by one of them while trying to do the ~pro~ BFG double-tap on him. Overall it's less polished/refined than some of the earlier maps (03-05), but it has a lot of charm to it in a way that the other really anachronistic-looking map (02) doesn't.

[Steve D]

Demon of the Well said:

Alright, as promised, here are the other three FDAs. They're all around 30-35 minutes long (they are all big maps, after all), so you probably won't want to watch them all at once. Generally speaking I liked these last three more than the first three (although none of them top 'Splatterhouse' purely in terms of sense of place), whatever that's worth. Again, commentary to come via edit later, once I can find time to watch the demos myself.

Thanks a million, DoTW! I just finished watching the first three. I really look forward to seeing your Map06, but I may not manage it tonight because I'm getting motion sickness. :D

Man, some weird shit happened in Map03. I didn't playtest on PRBoom, but I'll check some of the fixes in a bit. The outdoor lift weirdness was because the lift's action line wasn't tagged, but the lines on the sides were. Similar thing in the room past the yellow door. What really gets me is wondering how a nukage pool trap was triggered before you ever crossed the trigger lines or even entered the area.

Watching you play reminds me that I'm still in the sandlot league. The way you handled the Insta-Lift Revvies and Chaingunners in Map02 was just sick. ;) I always have to haul ass and run around the corner. :D

Map02 really is ugly as sin, isn't it? I've considered dropping it from the mapset. At least I fixed the Hell Knight/Sergeant mess. ATM, the only thing I really like in the map is the Soulsphere trap. The map has way too many switches, and I just got used to that over time, but watching other people play it is kinda painful . . .

My proudest moment came when I got you down to 30% health in Map03's outdoor area. That's equivalent to me getting killed 6 times! :)

I don't map quite this way anymore, with all the slow lifts and whatnot, but I do plan to release everything I ever did, slow lifts and all!

[Steve D]

plums said:

Almost-FDA for Map 01 (I had a false start and played it for ~30 seconds before recording this.) Didn't find it too hard though finding that secret stash of shells sure helped. Excuse the occasional pause in action; I guess I got lucky that the imp that snuck up on me during one of them me waited until I was ready.

Thank you, plums! Very nicely played, and it was interesting to see someone use mouselook. At first I misread your post and thought this would be a 30-second FDA. ;D I was happy to be wrong.

After reading yours and Cynical's comments, I'm going to make the secret door to the outside area look very obvious. The map is much less frustrating if players grab that ammo right away.

Thanks again!

[plums]

Thanks! I'll try the others today. I hope mouselook isn't cheating, I play with it off if someone specifically says that's how the wad should be played but otherwise I do like it on. Typically I play in GZDoom even though I prefer wads that stick to Boom/Doom features, so playing without any kind of mouselook in PrBoom feels a bit limiting at times.

The secret is pretty important, but I think without it it's probably doable, following your "it's OK to die a few times" philosophy. Maybe I'll try a run where I specifically avoid that area. I did finish with nearly 50 shells and a few shotguns laying around, so it's not like there's no ammo in the level, you're just restricted at the beginning.

Speaking of secrets, I assume that the green armour is available sometime before the blue, but in my run I never had a reason to go back that way so I didn't check. Might be something to change, somehow.

[Cynical]

SteveD said:

I should explain my playstyle, which may help illuminate some of the odd features of these maps. I started playing on Macs, and since it is impossible to record demos on MacDoom, there was never any incentive to make maps that are beatable in one go. Indeed, I like to get killed when playing Doom. In fact, I prefer to get killed at least 3 times in every map, and try to design maps with that goal in mind. I really don't get frustrated until I get killed more than 20 times, like I did when playtesting E2M5 of Concerned, but i loved that map. I'm a masochist. ;D Because I like to get killed, I play with frequent save/reload so that I can re-fight battles where I get wasted until I find the right strategy to win, or just get lucky.

I personally have no problems with dying (right now the wad I've been focusing on for the past week is Combat Shock 2), but there's a pretty big difference in my mind at least between "I died because I failed to move correctly in that big fight with constant Arch-Vile and Hell Knight warp-ins around four pillars" and "I died because I didn't know at the start of the level that I needed to save x amount of ammo for the end to deal with a sudden ammo drought", "I died because I missed a secret and have no real weapon because of it", or, even worse, "I died because I couldn't make that Vile in the open flinch". I'm fine with the former; the latter will piss me off. Perhaps not others, though.

The SpiderBoss does take a lot of ammo, and I was wondering whether to keep her or not, but I've been dusted by her a few times, so she is potentially lethal. Originally, it was just 2 Arachnotrons and a Revvie up there. I only added the SM within the last couple weeks. That final Archie -- you can get cover by backing out of the room and dropping into the water and dodging around one of the Revvie pillars. In fact, jumping into the water is a good way to take out all those Chaingunners in the windows, because the angle is too steep for them to shoot at you while you hit them in the head.

Admittedly, I hate the Mastermind in most circumstances (a hitscan boss is pretty much the epitome of everything I play Doom to get away from in other FPSs), but the Arachno/Rev replacement sounds like a large improvement.

The problem with the final Archies isn't the cover situation in and of itself (you don't even need to drop down to find cover), it's that none of the cover is amenable to punching them out (hard to punch them from the water...), and it's pretty easy to be literally out of every last bullet by the time you get to them.

Same thing with the cell charge in Map02 when there's no PG.

Ha, I was wondering if there was a secret one.

Also, how do you get that blue armor in map 01? Finding the secret outside area makes it pretty easy to actually beat it (not FDA: http://www.mediafire.com/download/rc071m3zc3njnjw/abcess1NotFDA.lmp ), but I have no idea how to grab the blue armor (If it's another IWAD reference, I'm probably hopeless at finding it; I've only played the IWADs once each, and that was many years ago).

[plums]

Cynical said:

Also, how do you get that blue armor in map 01? Finding the secret outside area makes it pretty easy to actually beat it (not FDA: http://www.mediafire.com/download/rc071m3zc3njnjw/abcess1NotFDA.lmp ), but I have no idea how to grab the blue armor (If it's another IWAD reference, I'm probably hopeless at finding it; I've only played the IWADs once each, and that was many years ago).

I'm not sure what does it, but something later in the level lowers that platform. It's just a matter of remembering to go back to it.

Anyhow SteveD, I beat map01 avoiding that secret area until the very end, it was certainly doable knowing that ammo would be tight in the start and I was better to run from certain enemies rather than shoot, until you get a good stock of shells. From reading this thread it seems like that's a good strategy for the rest of the maps too. Was poised to exit with 50 shells and still leaving the box, but then a stray chaingunner came around and I was too lazy to switch weapons or go back to pick up another shotgun. Oh well!
http://www.mediafire.com/?2z6cb1sveeki643

On to the other maps for real this time.

EDIT: Map02 - http://www.mediafire.com/?cvr4kslo15nqxw1
Slow and steady won this race, so you might want to put this on fast-forward. I thought the trick exit was a trick, but I didn't anticipate how much longer the level would go after that, so I made a bit of a mistake burning ammo to snipe those imps around the bridge. It worked out OK in the end.

And sorry if this is TMI, but I generally get quite sweaty hands when I play, and am used to being able to pause regularly to wipe them off, hence the pauses.

[Steve D]

The Blue Armor is lowered by the switch in the Chaingunner gallery that overlooks the outdoor water area. I'll have to change that, because it's another legacy of the original continuous-play design. Thus, you don't get the Blue Armor until after you kill everything. That makes no sense for pistol-start, but I only decided to optimize for pistol a few weeks ago because it seemed impossible to optimize Map06 for continuous and pistol. Maybe I'm wrong. Anyway, pistol-starters shouldn't get screwed on items because a mapset is designed for continuous play.

I'll either eliminate the Green Armor and make the Blue Armor accessible earlier, or I'll eliminate the Blue Armor and put the Green Armor in its place, and make it accessible by at least halfway through the map.

[plums]

Honestly I prefer continuous play usually, but for demos pistol start makes more sense and a lot of people seem to like PS around here. I know going for both is quite a challenge, unless you can ration your ammo out perfectly. I'll see what I think when I get to Map06.

[Demon of the Well]

Not being able to completely optimize an extended mapset to provide an edge-of-your-seat/skin-of-your-teeth experience for both continuous play AND pistol-start isn't really something to be ashamed of or even to worry too much about, since it's extremely difficult (if not impossible) to do in most cases, although there are some schools of map/encounter design where the effects of the dichotomy are less pronounced, I suppose (for example, those that are built around traps that cause almost instant death if not handled correctly).

Incidentally, I don't reckon that the first part of map 06 would be too terribly nerfed in continuous play, unless the player comes in with a BFG and a ton of cells....even dudes toting a plasma rifle might have a rough time at first, or at least certainly not a time stress-free enough for 'that' fight not to make the intended impression. Later parts of the map are flush with stuff to use (at least if you find some secrets), so the difference between pistol/continuous probably becomes less and less pronounced the farther the player makes it into the map.

That being said, I'm still glad Steve decided to target pistol-starts foremost, since that's what I most like to do myself. I feel like it gets me to notice more of the action/balance/progression peculiarities in individual maps, and in many cases also adds a bit (or more than a bit) of challenge, which is something I usually welcome.

[plums]

The rest. No more wins, though I was close with 4.

MAP03: The teleporting monsters gave me trouble.
http://www.mediafire.com/?bhsmbbiem33e387

MAP04: A lot of premium weapons for a continuous run. Went pretty good until I had the bright idea to BFG-rush the Spiderdemon; I clearly misjudged the distance.
http://www.mediafire.com/?izzajgrb2mapf6e

MAP05: Seemed to be short on ammo at the start, I did some running around to promote infighting but I always got killed by chaingunners.
http://www.mediafire.com/?5v77jxod5pbcpmb

MAP06: Can't remember, probably some stupid deaths :) Oh well!
http://www.mediafire.com/?ka9o63d4m2na5pw

I'll go back and beat them properly soon, maybe do a continuous run in GZDoom and let you know how it goes. I liked them for the most part although a few areas seemed a little plain, even for vanilla - that cave on MAP06 with the soulsphere sticks out, because it's what I played most recently.

[40oz]

yknow, we never get enough of those "hey here's some maps I made back in 1998 and never released" threads :)

I know I'll have a good time.

[Steve D]

Demon of the Well said:

The spider mastermind area's a bit surprising, almost like something straight out of a Michael Krause map architecturally.

Nice catch, DoTW! You are definitely a vet. As you may recall me bragging, I was one of Michael's playtesters from either DoTheJob or GoTheWay until he retired. I even have an unfinished Michael Krause map -- alas on a currently inaccessible Mac HD -- that he gave me permission to finish! Michael is one of my fave mappers of all time, him and his crazy, polarizing Bauhaus Lego school of design. I once described him as "The master of the rectangle," but damn his maps kicked ass. Playtesting for him, with my limited skill, meant I usually ended the session picking my teeth off the floor, but I loved it. I'm working up the bravery to do a whole Michael-homage map called Krausehaus sometime next year. Expect big Caco swarms.

That was not the only homage in Map04. The metal hallway with Compblu panels past the upper yellow key door is an homage to Michael's Ironhall. The 4-lift and grates area, and indeed the entire tech area surrounding the Soulsphere trap and the secret BFG/Soulsphere, is a big homage to Map01 of Osiris. If I'm not mistaken, the tricky Zerk/PG secret is also derived from Osiris. Kudos on finding it. BTW, I'm toying with the idea of doing an Osiris Redux. The text file says all resources can be freely used except the music, and those are some awesome resources.

Map05 has a big homage, too. That descending SpiderQueen is straight outta Map03 of ASDOOM2. The filename is asd2 at idgames if you've never played it.

ASDOOM2 gets another homage in Map06, in the "wacky Wolfenstein secret," specifically the Blackwal hall with the short techno floor lamps throwing very weak light, first seen in Map01 of ASDOOM2. BTW, the gradient lighting thrown by the firesticks near the gargoyle switch is original 1997 detailing. ;D

Speaking of original features, the Soulsphere trap in Map02 is not recent at all. It hasn't changed one iota since 1998, and is actually quite mild compared to the yellow key trap in E1M3 of my Knee Deep replacement, which was probably my first "Holy Fucking Shit!" trap. :D But even that is easy compared to the Plasma Gun secret in E1M7, which is probably best left alone by most players, especially if they haven't found the RL yet. I died 8 times in a row playing it last night without the RL, and after I survived once with 25% health, I died 6 more times trying to get the Soulsphere and RL. Natch, I expect that you would conquer it all on the first try, maybe getting hit twice by stray buckshot. ;D

So thanks muchly for the FDAs. You are an absolute Doom artist, DoTW. Not trying to give you a swelled head, but what else can I say? You sail through situations that crush me in my own maps! :D I'll confess, a little part of me cried watching you tear through that Great Big Giant Teleport Trap in Map06. That's a new trap, and I had you in mind when I designed it, thinking that it was about as bad as I could possibly stand, so maybe I'd kill you once or at least get you down to 15% or less, or make you run your ass off, or something. But no! You just stood there and kicked everything's ass no problem while singing, "The British are the best." A little fuss at teatime is all it was for you. Me, I have to run and hide in the Soulsphere tunnel and dodge behind those big pillars, and usually end at 14% even with the sneaky Medikits I stashed down there. So what am I gonna do with you? I may have to release a special Demon of The Well Edition of some map that's so crazy insane I could never play it myself except for God Mode walkthroughs. ;D

I was cheered when you made that mistake with the Cyb at the end and went down to like 13%. Tbh I usually survive that fight on the first try, it's the rest of the map that does a number on me. The big open sandboxy areas and the sneaky Chaingunners make this map tough for me all the way through. That's what I get for being a keyboarder. Smooth coordination is not my strong suit. I'll have to do an FDA sometime so you can chuckle at my awfulness. BTW, the 4-Cyb fight was a 2-Cyb fight until a couple weeks ago. In some ways, the old version was no picnic either, thanks to the Arachnotrons being more effective. Plus there weren't any extra cell charge packs down there, and there was less health. But I figured the sudden-death potential of 4 Cybs plus the shock effect of their presence would at least make players shudder at the prospect more than a few spider babies, even though the difficulty is about the same.

Yes, I was gratified that you had some rough moments in Map05's Cyb section. That Cyb, plus the Arachnotrons and Revvies at ground level, were added in the last couple months. I was thinking of something Tarnsman said about a map that used boss monsters as regular enemies, and thought, "Why not?" Without question, that made Map05 spike a bit in difficulty. I had to put the PG in that area and put a BFG in the PG's original secret area. That PG was there specifically to deal with the Archie, but it would have been weird to force the player to fight Cybie without heavy weapons. You don't even have the RL yet! ;D Another recent addition was all the Mancs by the red key door, which worked out well, I think.

The 4-Manc area you visit before saying "Hi" to SpiderQueen is the new section I built over the summer. Kind of a gradually-opening sandbox, and one of the toughest parts of the map for me, because it's designed to induce a bit of panic in players around my skill level, and make them run, and when you start running in a sandbox, bad things can happen. ;) I'll experiment with your teleport suggestion, which is quite evil, I must say. :D

For Map04, I'll follow your suggestion about ending the map at the SpiderQueen. The area beyond that is a switch-hunt and doesn't fit the theme of the map. I can cut it out and build a new map around it.

Here's hoping I'll have you aboard for Realm of Intensified Chaos, my ex-Team Mapping Project tech map, and the upcoming E1 replacement. I promise a lot of carnage. :)

[40oz]

Demon of the Well said:

The big trap near the second soulsphere is funny, obviously a modern addition....the player is just sort of tooling along in 199x-land, and then all of a sudden it's something from HR II for a minute there. It's jarring and a bit out of place, to be sure, but I think you should keep it--it's a good wakeup call.

I might have to play the map again, but are you talking about that revenant trap that happens out of nowhere out in the water when you circle around the outside of the building to get that backpack? I laughed out loud at that, because I actually took a second to glance at the automap as I straferan around the building completely unsuspecting of any hazards. I should have recorded it. hahahaha

[Steve D]

40oz said:

yknow, we never get enough of those "hey here's some maps I made back in 1998 and never released" threads :)

I know I'll have a good time.

I hope so. :)

Of course, we do get plenty of people saying, "My old maps were pure shit. Thank God i never released them." That may be true of mine as well, but I'm releasing them anyway, because I have no shame, no pride, and am generally a sad excuse for a human being. ;D