Making a commerical game in the Doom engine today?

[SavageCorona]

I want to know if it's possible to create a modern game using the Doom engine to sell for money, obviously modified to work on modern machines. I'm not talking about modding it, I'm talking about making a full game from scratch using the Doom engine. Is it possible, ie. what sort of licenses and things would you need etc.

[Jayextee]

Depends what tech you're using. Some ports are fully GPL'ed and you could theoretically bung the engine in with your own (original) content and sell that.

I think the FreeDoom content is salable, as well. But that's just lazy and shit to do.

[SavageCorona]

I was thinking of using an OpenGL port as a base then build up my own content from that, so then I can have sexy HD textures and models.

[plums]

If the port is GPL-licensed, you could do that. Some ports like ZDoom and its derivatives aren't. You still have to offer the source code for the engine, which is unconventional in a commercial game but there's nothing wrong with doing it.

I don't know how that would work with something like Steam that is both a distribution platform and a DRM system.

And yes, people do indeed sell FreeDoom for various mobile platforms.

[SavageCorona]

So as long as I use a GPL licensed source port and I offer the source code for the engine so people can make mods or their own game for it, I can do this?

[Remilia Scarlet]

Yes. I actually asked Id this very question a long time ago.

[Jayextee]

Don't know if you remember my posting of a video to a thing I'm making called SLaVE, but this is using EDGE - which is GPL. To be honest, this was more a 'get used to the engine then work on a game I want to sell' project than anything, but I've already been asked how much the final version will be.

I don't know though. Would folk sink a couple of dollars into something using such an old engine?

[geo]

Wrack?

[plums]

Jayextee said:

Don't know if you remember my posting of a video to a thing I'm making called SLaVE, but this is using EDGE - which is GPL. To be honest, this was more a 'get used to the engine then work on a game I want to sell' project than anything, but I've already been asked how much the final version will be.

I don't know though. Would folk sink a couple of dollars into something using such an old engine?

Sure. To someone not familiar with the current state of Doom, your video looks nothing like Doom (unless they recognized the font, heh) and has a look and feel that is very in line with with a lot of indie titles. Most people don't care about engines as long as it plays well, and you might even be able to get a bit of press coverage by talking about how you're using such an old engine instead of Unity or whatever.

As another plus, if you kept your level design relatively geared toward what the Doom engine is good at, you can keep your minimum requirements extremely low, which can help indie games.

[SavageCorona]

Jayextee said:

Don't know if you remember my posting of a video to a thing I'm making called SLaVE, but this is using EDGE - which is GPL. To be honest, this was more a 'get used to the engine then work on a game I want to sell' project than anything, but I've already been asked how much the final version will be.

I don't know though. Would folk sink a couple of dollars into something using such an old engine?

Is that made totally from scratch or is it just a Doom mod?

[Jayextee]

Right now it's a Doom mod (look at the small font) but will eventually be 100% original content. I'm even looking toward modifying the code later on - which is daunting, but necessary.

[Zed]

plums said:

people do indeed sell FreeDoom for various mobile platforms.

If you ask me, that isn't fair. It's supposed to be free.

Jayextee said:

I don't know though. Would folk sink a couple of dollars into something using such an old engine?

Well, they still buy Doom, don't they?

[plums]

Zed said:

If you ask me, that isn't fair. It's supposed to be free.

The license chosen for FreeDoom allows selling it, and that license was chosen knowing full well that someone might try to sell it. It's not really in the spirit of the project or the Doom community, but it's not like the people who started the FreeDoom project weren't aware.

In the software license world, "free" can mean many things, including freedom to use the source code for your own purposes. FreeDoom's "free" is not just commercial availability at no cost, but freedom for anyone to use, distribute, and modify it.

In a similar vein, the original license for the Doom source didn't permit commercial distribution, but it was rereleased under the GPL because that allows more people to do more useful things with it, even if Id didn't really want people to sell it. (I doubt they care at this point.)

[Jimothy]

There'd be plenty of limitations, but that's nothing fixable by some tweaks.

I'd think it'd be really cool to see a fresh new game done in the Doom engine. I'd definitely put some money into a game of the sort.

[Zed]

plums said:

The license chosen for FreeDoom allows selling it, and that license was chosen knowing full well that someone might try to sell it. It's not really in the spirit of the project or the Doom community, but it's not like the people who started the FreeDoom project weren't aware.

In the software license world, "free" can mean many things, including freedom to use the source code for your own purposes. FreeDoom's "free" is not just commercial availability at no cost, but freedom for anyone to use, distribute, and modify it.

In a similar vein, the original license for the Doom source didn't permit commercial distribution, but it was rereleased under the GPL because that allows more people to do more useful things with it, even if Id didn't really want people to sell it. (I doubt they care at this point.)

Yes, you're right. It just bothers me a little because of the "It's not really in the spirit of the project or the Doom community" part. I mean, if the community has taken so long to work on it, if they've put so much effort into it, and without getting any kind of "monetary remuneration", if somebody else wants to port it to whatever device/OS they want, they might as well follow that spirit. To me, that's the whole point. That's why it's called Freedoom. But I understand it. It's just that, as I said, it doesn't seem fair to me.

[fraggle]

Doom's source code is available under the GNU GPL, which allows you to sell it; however, if you modify the source code you must release your changes. If you're just creating WADs (new levels, graphics, etc.) then this doesn't affect you.

Not all source ports are available under the GPL. The most notable exception is ZDoom, which incorporates code from various different places. That means that you technically can't sell it, though the Urban Brawl guys did and seemed to get away with it.

Freedoom's content can also be reused and sold (see here).

[Coraline]

Jayextee said:

Right now it's a Doom mod (look at the small font) but will eventually be 100% original content. I'm even looking toward modifying the code later on - which is daunting, but necessary.

If you need help with this, let me know. I will volunteer to make it both stand-alone and original, no DOOM-based IWAD required or any of that other crap. Pretty neat this is running on EDGE!

[Gez]

fraggle said:

though the Urban Brawl guys did and seemed to get away with it.

Well, they weren't selling the port. The game itself was distributed freely, if you bought it the only extra you'd get would be physical disc and packaging, and a handful of bonus maps (now freely available as well).

Also? Incredibly small fish.

[Jayextee]

Chu said:

If you need help with this, let me know. I will volunteer to make it both stand-alone and original, no DOOM-based IWAD required or any of that other crap. Pretty neat this is running on EDGE!

Heh. To be honest, you're the first person I had in mind! ;)

Although the content comes first. When all that's done (and I'm very capable of generating it all on my lonesome), I'll think about what I want doing to the code. I'm going to be cheap though, and see if I can do as much in EDGE's various scripts/definitions as I can to save on work.