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Alfonzo

Doom 2 The Way id Did: Released! Bugfix update Nov 16

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ClonedPickle said:

Please tell me more about Doom's rich, intricate story and which megawads actually happened in it


Only Doom and Doom 2 are canon, as in Doom 2 Hell is destroyed along with the Icon of Sin. Thy Flesh Consumed can easily be reconciled with the canon too, but Evilution and Plutonia are just fanmade megawads like all the others after them. id just happened to se them as a way to cash in.

Oh, and I actually DO like Doom's story, what little of it there is. And I'm not saying that Plutonia and TNT are bad or something, I just don't see them as part of the same continuity as Doom and D2.

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Gez said:

Obviously, what's needed now is HTWRD, HTWRD, and STWRD. Oh, and naturally, CQTWDCD.

Question is, which is better: HTWRD or HTWRD?

I wonder if anyone'd make a QTWiD, too. Might be getting a little out there, though.

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Xfing said:

The maps don't even try to resemble anything...


Don't they?

Caughtyard - A courtyard. Obviously.
Odyssey of Noises - A city. Obviously.
Aztec - Jungle temples
Hunted - Labyrinth/maze Obviously.
The Sewers - Some sewers. Obviously.
Speed - Wooden fortress

Xfing said:

I see no reason anyone would want to see more of that ugly, ugly clusterfuck that Plutonia was. Plutonia's horrible to look at and there are lots upon lots of megawads that are better to play.

Xfing then said:

And I'm not saying that Plutonia...are bad or something


Well. You changed your tune.

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Xfing said:

Seriously... why not stop at Ultimate Doom?


While I would love to see more Doom megaWADs with their own texture schemes a la BTSX, I'm not gonna balk at more Doom levels.

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Xfing said:

Only Doom and Doom 2 are canon, as in Doom 2 Hell is destroyed along with the Icon of Sin. Thy Flesh Consumed can easily be reconciled with the canon too, but Evilution and Plutonia are just fanmade megawads like all the others after them. id just happened to se them as a way to cash in.

Oh, and I actually DO like Doom's story, what little of it there is. And I'm not saying that Plutonia and TNT are bad or something, I just don't see them as part of the same continuity as Doom and D2.

You sir are wrong in so many levels. They aren't cash ins to be sure, more of that, maybe they weren't made by id but authorized and made canon, part of Classic Doom. New series like Doom 3, ROE, or Doom 4 are not canon to Classic Doom trilogy but Final Doom is, just with two 32 level episodes to choose your "after Hell on Earth" scenario. Hell in Doom 2 is not destroyed, only devastated the underground terraformation one. Classic type of hell was only in Doom1 as kind of always to rebuilt otherwordly hostile dimension and that idea was continued on in Final Doom.

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Shadow Hog said:

I wonder if anyone'd make a QTWiD, too. Might be getting a little out there, though.


Well, UDTWID will be using Quake maps as a reference, especially for Willits whose work in Doom was less prominent than others'. I imagine D64TWIW will also have a bit of Quake inspiration, but as for a mod actually for Quake, I dunno.

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There are a lot of Willits levels to look at in Doom from his E4 work to his Master Levels stuff to the WAD that got him a job at id.

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Eris Falling said:

Well. You changed your tune.


Well yeah. Gameplay's one thing, aesthetics are another. Plutonia does have good gameplay, but it sacrifices pretty much everything else. That was my point. But the point stands: it's not bad to play, but horrible to look at.

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Dragonsbrethren said:

Plutonia's aesthetics are great outside of the few maps that heavily reuse Doom/Doom2 textures.


Oh HELL no. Entire levels using almost the same texture everywhere, the dull gray rock bricks texture and wood everywhere, painful overuse of blood.. everything looks so damn bleak and bland and depressing in a bad way.

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Gez said:

HTWRD, HTWRD


I am seriously hoping for both of these, sometime.

Anyhow I've poked through D2TWID a little and it's quite good, I have to agree with other people that said that these maps are superior to the originals of D2. Which is almost disappointing in some way; the first DTWID was uncannily like its source material in places, to the point where I almost felt like I'd seen the levels before but it had just been a long time. I'm not getting that vibe at all from D2TWID... but it's probably for the best.

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plums said:

I am seriously hoping for both of these, sometime.

Anyhow I've poked through D2TWID a little and it's quite good, I have to agree with other people that said that these maps are superior to the originals of D2. Which is almost disappointing in some way; the first DTWID was uncannily like its source material in places, to the point where I almost felt like I'd seen the levels before but it had just been a long time. I'm not getting that vibe at all from D2TWID... but it's probably for the best.


Weird that you say that. To me the sentiment regarding DTWiD was exactly the same as what you feel about D2TWiD.

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Xfing said:

Only Doom and Doom 2 are canon, as in Doom 2 Hell is destroyed along with the Icon of Sin. Thy Flesh Consumed can easily be reconciled with the canon too, but Evilution and Plutonia are just fanmade megawads like all the others after them. id just happened to se them as a way to cash in.

I've seen this "Final Doom isn't canon" argument before. I've never heard Id say a thing about which Doom games are and aren't canon, so until somebody from the company speaks up, what's "canon" is really up to individual interpretation.

Honestly, though, it's hard to take Doom's story that seriously. It can't even agree with itself sometimes. Doom's ending (and summarily Thy Flesh Consumed, presumably) suggests that DoomGuy is instantly whisked back to Earth to find that demons have invaded, and it's time to start kicking butt again. Yet the Doom II manual suggests that "you've quit the military, and are heading home. Your drop pod lands with a crunch. You open 'er up and look out. Damn! The city ahead is on fire. What the devil is going on?" Suddenly, DoomGuy has enough time to file his resignation and get a ride back home before he realizes demons have taken over. I guess seeing his pet rabbit's head on a stick caused some serious traumatic memory loss.

Id themselves have stated before how story in games is equivalent to story in porno: just the bare minimum to get the action started. I severely doubt they care which games are "canon."

Anyway, if the team ever really does decide to tackle "Doom 64 the Way Whoever Did/Would've Done/Considered Doing but Spent All the Project's Money on Cocaine," I hope they'll actually use Doom 64 EX. That engine needs more love.

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The problem with that theory is that id made a brand new story for both episodes of Final Doom. While its unknown when these two happen (and if Doomguy actually gets out of TNT alive, the end is set up to be you fighting a wave of endless enemies out of the IOS when it reactivates for the Cast Call) the Doomguy's story ends at Doom 64 when he remains in hell to keep the demons in check.

Anyway, onto the topic at hand, Ive recommended this to a few people and will give it a go when I both finish up the current Devilution playtest mapset and get around to finishing this project's predecessor.

Once E4 is made in the same stlye, I hope you guys will make "Master Levels the Way id Wish They Could Have Done" (joke title) and make a level set that emulates the styles of Anderson, Willits, Klie, Sverre, Flynn and Mustaine within stock Doom 2.

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Megamur said:

I've seen this "Final Doom isn't canon" argument before. I've never heard Id say a thing about which Doom games are and aren't canon, so until somebody from the company speaks up, what's "canon" is really up to individual interpretation.

Honestly, though, it's hard to take Doom's story that seriously. It can't even agree with itself sometimes. Doom's ending (and summarily Thy Flesh Consumed, presumably) suggests that DoomGuy is instantly whisked back to Earth to find that demons have invaded, and it's time to start kicking butt again. Yet the Doom II manual suggests that "you've quit the military, and are heading home. Your drop pod lands with a crunch. You open 'er up and look out. Damn! The city ahead is on fire. What the devil is going on?" Suddenly, DoomGuy has enough time to file his resignation and get a ride back home before he realizes demons have taken over. I guess seeing his pet rabbit's head on a stick caused some serious traumatic memory loss.

Id themselves have stated before how story in games is equivalent to story in porno: just the bare minimum to get the action started. I severely doubt they care which games are "canon."

Anyway, if the team ever really does decide to tackle "Doom 64 the Way Whoever Did/Would've Done/Considered Doing but Spent All the Project's Money on Cocaine," I hope they'll actually use Doom 64 EX. That engine needs more love.


You do bring up some good points here. So yeah, it all boils down to personal choice, really. I choose to only accept Doom 1 and 2 as the strictest canon, mostly because the themes and atmosphere of these games are congruous and because they were actually made by id.

On the other hand, if Plutonia is canon, then why not Hell Revealed? Both Plutonia and TNT are too vastly different, feel too vastly different from the original products. I would rather think of them as entirely different stories, enjoy them on their own with no ties to Doom 1 and 2.

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Piper Maru said:

How about a project based on The Doom Bible? That would be interesting to see.

There already is... I suggested a Doom64 the Way Midway Did on ZDoom not too long ago. I didn't think it was actually being discussed by the team however. I assumed it would end at D2TWiD, I would perhaps map for a future project (very interested in the Plutonia the Way Casali Brothers did or whatever) but I doubt that will go down well. EDIT: +1 for HTWRD. We need more Heretic megawads, which reminds me that I must finish my Blasphemer maps and my Heretic one.

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I want to shoot everyone arguing about canon in Doom out of a cannon.

Piper Maru said:

How about a project based on The Doom Bible? That would be interesting to see.

There have been tons of these started already. And no, it really wouldn't.

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Dragonsbrethren said:

I want to shoot everyone arguing about canon in Doom out of a cannon.


There have been tons of these started already. And no, it really wouldn't.


Are you sure it wouldn't be interesting to see?

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