So how do you make MIDI music?

[Varis Alpha]

i wouldn't mind having some kind of virtual piano, myself. not for FL Studio though, i know that program fairly well at this point, but for something like Famitracker. i am pretty much completely blind trying to put in the right notes there, and it's so tedious to get the right notes all the time. i have a keyboard, but my room doesn't have the space for such a huge thing...

[Crunchynut44]

The one and only Fruity Loops :D

Don't have much hardware though, M-Track audio interface and an Axiom air 32 MIDI controller are all I have. They do the job though.

Wait that's what this thread is about right?

[greenslimeriver]

I have a bunch of vintage synths and an imac with ableton live which is more than enough to 

compose music. I’ve never created a midi track, though. What instruments/ patches does one use for that?

If I use my own instruments, then obviously those sounds can’t be reproduced on other people’s machines.

how does this work?

[Deadwing]

I use Cakewalk + MIDI Keyboard, it works well despite some annoying bugs >.<

[Doomkid]

2 hours ago, greenslimeriver said:

I have a bunch of vintage synths and an imac with ableton live which is more than enough to 

compose music. I’ve never created a midi track, though. What instruments/ patches does one use for that?

If I use my own instruments, then obviously those sounds can’t be reproduced on other people’s machines.

how does this work?

General MIDIs have a bank of 127 instruments that kinda-sorta-mostly sound the same from machine to machine. Instrument 30 will always be an electric guitar, for example.

If what you compose in can load .SF2 soundfonts, try finding the RLNDGM.sf2 font and loading it in to use as a basis for composing (it’s the generic Windows/Doom MIDI sound)

[MattFright]

I love that this thread just got necro'd almost a full decade after its creation and nobody questioned it

[Borg]

Somehow I need to get on the same page with you doom music people. I use Reaper along with several VSTI's besides my guitar, bass and Yamaha keyboard. When I finish something I call it a track. You guys all use the term midi. It confuses me. But that's normal.

[The BMFG]

i got a midi keyboard (not one of the ones that connect to your pc) usually how i record the midis ill make is just put my microphone of the keyboard speakers and start playing away. i never really write my midis. i just improvise. im thinking about doing vocals with my music but im too afraid that it would sound like ass

[Lippeth]

31 minutes ago, Borg said:

Somehow I need to get on the same page with you doom music people. I use Reaper along with several VSTI's besides my guitar, bass and Yamaha keyboard. When I finish something I call it a track. You guys all use the term midi. It confuses me. But that's normal.

 

The term "MIDI" has become confusing, especially because it's so widely used in modern music production, and all usages of the term are correct, though different in practice. You would use MIDI with a VSTI plugin the same way a Doom MIDI composer would, the only difference is that a MIDI composer for Doom will make sure that a few extra parameters are in place so that the game will essentially act as the DAW, and their computer's playback synth/soundfont program acts as the VSTI, playing the sound in real time, every time. And there are very strict polyphony limitations depending on what you're playing it back on.

 

Composing for games like Doom or any game with MIDI playback need all the instructions beforehand in the form of a number that represents an action, usually between 0 and 127: the instrument, volume, pan, modulation, etc. and if using a modern DAW, rather than setting the pan and volume (etc) on the track, you need to "embed" the data into the MIDI clip itself, so that when you export it as MIDI, all the info gets stored in the file to play on anyone's system. Most MIDI programs like Sekaiju will do this automatically, but with certain modern DAWs nothing is stored until you add everything individually, and certain ones like Pro Tools won't even tell you what anything represents, so you would want to look up what numbers represent what instrument, and which numbers correspond with what parameter.

 

I probably sound insane, but this is the way I have come to understand it; I don't fully understand it and that probably shows in my explanation. I'm even half convinced that the top composers don't fully understand it.

[msx2plus]

1 hour ago, MattFright said:

I love that this thread just got necro'd almost a full decade after its creation and nobody questioned it

peak DW

[Borg]

I just render the track to an MP3 and load it with Slade3 and call it by name in MAPINFO. Maybe that would cause problems on some ports if I were to publish the wad.

I don't know.

[msx2plus]

20 minutes ago, Borg said:

I just render the track to an MP3 and load it with Slade3 and call it by name in MAPINFO. Maybe that would cause problems on some ports if I were to publish the wad.

I don't know.

most modern source ports support streamed audio at this point in a number of formats (WAV/MP3/OGG - OGG is a big recommend as it doesn't add junk data to the start/end of the file and can loop properly using metadata that points to the samples at which the loop starts/ends. it also just sounds better for the filesize), along with a number of tracker music formats (MOD, XM, IT, S3M, etc) , so you'd be fine.

 

most doom mappers still use midi because midi is fairly quick to compose for (we don't have to worry about finalizing/mastering/too much tinkering in general), is small in file size (it's just note/parameter data), and is supported by every source port. the downside is variance in how they play back. most people use the standard microsoft wavetable synth and also compose for how it sounds, while others use software players that stand in for it (fluidsynth, tmiditiy++) and other still use hardware romplers (roland sound canvas, korg 05r/w, etc), and everybody will get a slightly different outcome.

 

very short version: MIDI is a standard for sending and receiving information to/from instruments, software, etc. a MIDI file is just the note data, parameter changes, etc. it can be played back any number of ways, as mentioned above. the notes and other info (vibrato, tremolo, portamento, etc) you lay down in a DAW are MIDI data that could absolutely be exported as a MIDI file, but it's just being used to trigger the synths, samplers, etc you're using there.

 

the reason you hear a lot of finished work get called "MIDIs" here is because it's not a mixed, mastered, finalized track. it's just the note data. the actual track doesn't even exist until you play it back via your MIDI player of choice (same goes for tracker music). as a MIDI author, you relinquish control over that aspect of it. it plays how it plays, and that's the listener's/user's choice. if i were to do a recording of my MIDIs, i consider those the finalized versions, and i would call those "tracks".

[Bauul]

1 hour ago, Borg said:

Somehow I need to get on the same page with you doom music people. I use Reaper along with several VSTI's besides my guitar, bass and Yamaha keyboard. When I finish something I call it a track. You guys all use the term midi. It confuses me. But that's normal.

 

We call it a MIDI because it's a MIDI track, as opposed to an OGG track or an MP3 track or whatever.  The file ends with .mid, therefore it's a MIDI track.  People calling it a MIDI is just leaving off the "track" part, because it's implied by the context.

This is an oversimplification of the proper terminology, but it's generally how people use it in the community.

[Doomkid]

59 minutes ago, Lippeth said:

I probably sound insane, but this is the way I have come to understand it; I don't fully understand it and that probably shows in my explanation. I'm even half convinced that the top composers don't fully understand it.

One does not simply understand MIDI..! Not that I’m a stunning composer, but even when you know more than enough to write an awesome multi-track MIDI file, you could still theoretically have loads to learn. Even coming to terms with beginner stuff like the difference between track volume and note velocity to achieve “loudness” took me quite a while when I was new to it.. let alone implementation of bends and pitch shifting, understanding the importance of input/output channels being set properly, making sure the midi has proper “end the bloody song” events, and so on..

 

EDIT: I might be a dummy because in the context of MIDIs I always felt like “track” and “channel” were interchangeable, even though track more broadly refers to a complete song. I’m sure some DAWs refer to them as tracks, that’s likely where I picked it up.

 

36 minutes ago, Borg said:

I just render the track to an MP3 and load it with Slade3 and call it by name in MAPINFO. Maybe that would cause problems on some ports if I were to publish the wad.

I don't know.

Any “old style” ports won’t like non-MIDI formats, but if your wad targets more advanced ports, it won’t really be a problem 

[Borg]

The wad targets zdoom. I'll just keep doing what I'm doing and worry about it if I decide to share it.

Thanks for the help all.

 

 

[Mr. Freeze]

Still using Guitar Pro 5

 

[Syn]

Slap notes down in FL Studio and pretend I know music theory

[PsychEyeball]

13 minutes ago, SynDoom said:

Slap notes down in FL Studio and pretend I know music theory

What the heck is music theory

[Syn]

Just now, PsychEyeball said:

What the heck is music theory

A long extinct art

[Lippeth]

22 hours ago, Doomkid said:

EDIT: I might be a dummy because in the context of MIDIs I always felt like “track” and “channel” were interchangeable, even though track more broadly refers to a complete song. I’m sure some DAWs refer to them as tracks, that’s likely where I picked it up.

 

What's most confusing is that they both are and aren't interchangeable, and not in some heady Schrödinger way, but depending on what the specific context or application is, or how pedantic you want to get. A track can of course be slang for the whole song, or even a verb synonymous with recording (let's track guitars today). Getting technical though, a channel is the path an audio signal takes from an input to an output, while a track refers to the audio signal that moves through the path. This can be argued of course, but is generally the way audio engineers think about it.

 

To get even more confusing, while a channel is just an empty track and a track is a channel with an audio signal, a channel is still a channel while containing the track, and a track can be empty and still be called a track. So yes, they are essentially interchangeable and no one would ever question you no matter which one you say, but there's a slightly different mindset with each of them. It's similar to the difference between busses and aux tracks: they can both be called the same thing even though technically the signal is routed to an aux track through a buss channel.

 

Specifically in a DAW, the track is where the audio or MIDI region is placed in order to be controlled by the channel strip (fader, panning, solo, mute, etc) and be routed to an output. When recording on tape, the track is the tape that contains the audio (but is only magnetic tape when empty), and is routed to a channel on a mixing board, and then to the master buss with all the other tracks. Master buss (or bus) just being shorthand for the final subgroup before the main output.

 

Anyway...

[Borg]

37 minutes ago, Lippeth said:

 

What's most confusing is that they both are and aren't interchangeable, and not in some heady Schrödinger way, but depending on what the specific context or application is, or how pedantic you want to get. A track can of course be slang for the whole song, or even a verb synonymous with recording (let's track guitars today). Getting technical though, a channel is the path an audio signal takes from an input to an output, while a track refers to the audio signal that moves through the path. This can be argued of course, but is generally the way audio engineers think about it.

 

To get even more confusing, while a channel is just an empty track and a track is a channel with an audio signal, a channel is still a channel while containing the track, and a track can be empty and still be called a track. So yes, they are essentially interchangeable and no one would ever question you no matter which one you say, but there's a slightly different mindset with each of them. It's similar to the difference between busses and aux tracks: they can both be called the same thing even though technically the signal is routed to an aux track through a buss channel.

 

Specifically in a DAW, the track is where the audio or MIDI region is placed in order to be controlled by the channel strip (fader, panning, solo, mute, etc) and be routed to an output. When recording on tape, the track is the tape that contains the audio (but is only magnetic tape when empty), and is routed to a channel on a mixing board, and then to the master buss with all the other tracks. Master buss (or bus) just being shorthand for the final subgroup before the main output.

 

Anyway...

For the most part you are spot on. I use a DAW and a more technical reference for track refers to the particular track number that I may be recording on. I can easily use 20 tracks on a simple songs. 4 or 5 for drums, usually 1 for bass but not always, guitars could use 5 or 6, keyboards, synths and such 2 or 3, vocals 5 or 6 plus the Master track and when the song is done and rendered you say I just finished this track, I'll send it to you. So you pretty much have it. Interchangeable and not.

Midi still fucks me over though. I have a midi controller, I use a midi editor. My Audio interface (M-track) is considered a midi device by my DAW.  I just have never  referred to a composition as a midi like is commonly done here. Don't worry, I'll get over it.

 

 

[Lippeth]

1 hour ago, Borg said:

Midi still fucks me over though. I have a midi controller, I use a midi editor. My Audio interface (M-track) is considered a midi device by my DAW.  I just have never  referred to a composition as a midi like is commonly done here. Don't worry, I'll get over it.

 

It's all MIDI, MIDI is just the acronym referring to the general technical standard. A MIDI keyboard is mapped with said standard in order to send the correct data to your computer when you press a particular key on the keyboard. It's a similar idea to USB but created specifically for music hardware and software and you can even send MIDI information through USB, as that's how many modern MIDI keyboards connect to computers. An audio interface that shows up as a MIDI device just means that it has MIDI inputs and outputs for hardware synths and MIDI modules, or is otherwise able to send, receive or synchronize MIDI information.

 

What MIDI composers are referring to is the file format, which is an extension of the same idea. If you look in the export section of your DAW you should see an option to export or save as MIDI, and all this does is export the raw MIDI information (pitch, velocity, etc) as numeric values in a file so you can later play it back in a sequencer, synth, or in our case, a video game or MIDI player. And when creating music designed to playback solely on a MIDI player, more specific data is added so that the MIDI player will know what instrument to select for each channel, and all the other control changes.

 

So it's not like we're trying to be hip and calling a song something different for the sake of it, we're just talking about the file format and/or music made using only the MIDI standard. The terminology may get confusing if we decide to share a MIDI file recorded as an audio file, but then it at that point it's not much different from using an old telephone icon for calling on a cell phone or an envelope for email, a part of it is common familiarity I suppose. And the reason why electronic music that uses nothing but MIDI to trigger sounds isn't also called MIDI by default is because their target format might be different than someone writing music for a Doom map.

 

Sorry for the wall of very dry text, but I'm partly writing this for future search references and also to test my own understanding of it. They say you don't truly understand something if you can't explain it, and I don't know who they are, but they got me shook.

Edited January 23, 2022 by Lippeth

[Borg]

1 hour ago, Lippeth said:

 

It's all MIDI, MIDI is just the acronym referring to the general technical standard. A MIDI keyboard is mapped with said standard in order to send the correct data to your computer when you press a particular key on the keyboard. It's a similar idea to USB but created specifically for music hardware and software and you can even send MIDI information through USB, as that's how many modern MIDI keyboards connect to computers. An audio interface that shows up as a MIDI device just means that it has MIDI inputs and outputs for hardware synths and MIDI modules, or is otherwise able to send, receive or synchronize MIDI information.

 

What MIDI composers are referring to is the file format, which is an extension of the same idea. If you look in the export section of your DAW you should see an option to export or save as MIDI, and all this does is export the raw MIDI information (pitch, velocity, etc) as numeric values in a file so you can later play it back in a sequencer, synth, or in our case, a video game or MIDI player. And when creating music designed to playback solely on a MIDI player, more specific data is added so that the MIDI player will know what instrument to select for each channel, and all the other control changes.

 

So it's not like we're trying to be hip and calling a song something different for the sake of it, we're just talking about the file format and/or music made using only the MIDI standard. The terminology may get confusing if we decide to share a MIDI file recorded as an audio file, but then it at that point it's not much different from using an old telephone icon for calling on a cell phone or an envelope for email, a part of it is common familiarity I suppose. And the reason why electronic music that uses nothing but MIDI to trigger sounds isn't also called MIDI by default is because their target format might be different than someone writing music for a Doom map.

 

Sorry for the wall of very dry text, but I'm partly writing this for future search references and also to test my own understanding of it. They say you don't truly understand something if you can't explain it, and I don't know who they are, but they got me shook.

No it's good. I need it. You have a good grip on the lingo. The whole thing with the Doom midi is because of my ignorance of what has gone down before I started dabbling is mapping. Also I'm being a bit of a bitch.

Good stuff though.

[Pokeblue]

Y'all people out here using either complicated and/or paid programs, my tiny simple brain likes Aria Maestosa.

[Borg]

10 hours ago, Pokeblue said:

Y'all people out here using either complicated and/or paid programs, my tiny simple brain likes Aria Maestosa.

I looked it up. I have a couple of questions:

Do you use VST's to get the various sounds?

Do you use a separate keyboard for live recording vs programmed?

Can you record live guitar?

 

It seems like what you use is just like the midi editor in Reaper.

[Pokeblue]

43 minutes ago, Borg said:

I looked it up. I have a couple of questions:

Do you use VST's to get the various sounds?

Do you use a separate keyboard for live recording vs programmed?

Can you record live guitar?

 

It seems like what you use is just like the midi editor in Reaper.

- I don't tend to use VSTs, Aria is a bit basic and doesn't support them.

I just use a software midi cable to output to VSTHost if I ever need it (Dumb, I know)

Also I usually export as a .mid for WADs anyway so it doesn't matter,

although I do use VirtualMidiSynth to switch between OPL and SC-55 soundfonts to tweak the music for the best "compatibility"

 

- Both. I usually use a mouse and a Yamaha PSR-330.

 

- Are midi guitars a thing??

Edited January 23, 2022 by Pokeblue : SC-55, not SC-155. They sound mostly the same though.

[Borg]

10 minutes ago, Pokeblue said:

- I don't tend to use VSTs, Aria is a bit basic and doesn't support them.

I just use a software midi cable to output to VSTHost if I ever need it (Dumb, I know)

Also I usually export as a .mid for WADs anyway so it doesn't matter,

although I do use VirtualMidiSynth to switch between OPL and SC-55 soundfonts to tweak the music for the best "compatibility"

 

- Both. I usually use a mouse and a Yamaha PSR-330.

 

- Are midi guitars a thing??

Ok. I got it now.  Essentially, a midi sequencer is not a full on DAW but works fine for building normal Doom music or midi's as they are referred to. I now understand why they are called midi's. They are called midi's because that's what the fuck they are.

 

My question about the guitar was because I didn't know what the midi sequencer was limited to.

I'm sure there are guitar vst's but I wouldn't want one.

[Pokeblue]

4 minutes ago, Borg said:

Ok. I got it now.  Essentially, a midi sequencer is not a full on DAW but works fine for building normal Doom music or midi's as they are referred to. I now understand why they are called midi's. They are called midi's because that's what the fuck they are.

 

My question about the guitar was because I didn't know what the midi sequencer was limited to.

I'm sure there are guitar vst's but I wouldn't want one.

Oh, I thought you meant there were physical midi controllers that played like guitars.

But yes, not every midi thing is a DAW.

[Deadwing]

The good side of MIDI is that you have a lot less things to worry about and it's easier to sound good within its context. The "bad" side is that you're limited to that context (which isn't bad IMO), but your song might sound a lot worse because someone is either using a different source port or soundfont.

 

When you're using VST's to create a wav/mp3 track, it becomes much harder with all the mastering/mixing necessary steps >.<, and using the right tools to get a good sounding instruments and synths it another skill on its own. Someday I'll do an actual production course to learn the technical things...

 

I didn't know you could loop with ogg, though D:

[Pokeblue]

7 minutes ago, Deadwing said:

The good side of MIDI is that you have a lot less things to worry about and it's easier to sound good within its context. The "bad" side is that you're limited to that context (which isn't bad IMO), but your song might sound a lot worse because someone is either using a different source port or soundfont.

 

When you're using VST's to create a wav/mp3 track, it becomes much harder with all the mastering/mixing necessary steps >.<, and using the right tools to get a good sounding instruments and synths it another skill on its own. Someday I'll do an actual production course to learn the technical things...

 

I didn't know you could loop with ogg, though D:

True, and also true.

 

I agree with that as well

 

OGGs doin loops!? picrel