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Patrol1985

When do you consider a level beaten?

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Every now and then, people will write on this forum that they "can't beat" some level or that they have "beaten it". Now, I assume that barring some cases of getting stuck on a puzzle, it's generally impossible to fail finishing a level when playing on "I'm too young to die" and using the save/load feature. Therefore, I assume most people must mean something else when they talk about beating a level. Thus my question. Do you consider a level beaten when you:

1. finish it on any difficulty and using save/load (i.e. as long as you get to the exit button without cheats it's all "legit")
2. finish it on some specific difficulty setting ("Nightmare" perhaps) and until you do, the level is not complete.
3. same as above, but with pistol start?
4. same as above, but no saved games?
5. something else?

For the most part of my life, I simply wanted to finish the game without cheats on "Ultra-violence", meaning that I used the "save" option frequently and I carried my weapons from previous levels.

Recently I decided to beat all official IWADS using "Ultra-violence", adding the -fast parameter, using pistol start for each level, reaching 100% secrets and doing it without "save game" option. Thus far I have reached E3M6 (only once I'm through "Ultimate Doom" will I think about later "Doom" games)

What are your criteria?

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I don't have any criteria. I play on UV, continuously (no 'forced' pistol-starts) and I use saving whenever I want. I try not to savescum but if I feel like doing it, I do it and don't care. Generally I consider extreme savescumming to be the wrong thing to do (because you just push through levels for some imaginary reason) but I don't have any practicular rules for that.

The only mapsets that I've finished without saving during levels and from pistol-starts are Deus Vult I/II. Why? Because I wanted to and felt like challenging myself with them.

I don't cheat unless I consider something complete bullshit. So far there are two mapsets where I cheated through the final battle: Winter's Fury and Claustrophobia: The Walls Close In. Both have prolonged, annoying, script-heavy, gimmicky, arcade boss fights and I hate those so much I don't feel bad at all about cheating through them. I don't think I've legitimately finished those WADs but then again, I don't really care.

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Piper Maru said:

I consider a level beaten when I hit the exit switch.


This. If I can't beat a level, it's because I get lost. Sometimes because my own ineptude, sometimes because some levels genuinly lack a intuitive layout.

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Piper Maru said:

I consider a level beaten when I hit the exit switch.


Same. My preference is to play continuous but without saving. I like the idea of pistol starting as a penalty if I die. However, I soon give up if the levels are too hard and long and will either save periodically (sometime I use collecting a key as a sort of checkpoint) or reduce difficulty if the author has implemented the settings.

I am loathe to drop difficulty below HNTR or below whatever the author has implemented because the gameplay becomes unbalanced to the authors intentions to the point where you might as well play something else. If cannot get further without resorting to this or can only proceed by saving so often it does not feel like a game anymore then I will quit.

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Piper Maru said:

I consider a level beaten when I hit the exit switch.


Agreed. I know some people are finnicky about getting 100% kills, but I'm happy with whatever percentages I get. When it says "xxx complete, entering xxx" that's when I consider it done.

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It depends. I consider the level "beaten" when I hit the exit switch, as Piper Maru said. But considering it "complete" is another thing. I like 100% Kills and Secrets (also Items, but not that much). If I play a level for the first time, I don't really care about those numbers, but if I already can beat it without problems, I don't consider it finished anymore until I reach every secret and kill every monster (this is, of course, excluding cases where secrets can't be reached or monsters can't be killed, then I just consider them completed since I know I did my best).

EDIT: This 100% thing is of course ignored in the rare cases I play Nightmare or with -respawn. Then I just try to find all secrets or just rush to the exit. But is really a non-issue since I almost never play with those settings, though there are some wads that become really fun that way. For example, Prayers of Armageddon. The levels are so small and with so few monsters that Nightmare makes them really cool.

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I guess I play very similarly to Touchdown up there, right down to the saving practices. I always save at the beginning of a level, and though I avoid saving again until I finish I will definitely start doing it if the level kills me too many times. I also try to kill everything on the map although if I can't find every monster, or don't have the patience to kill all of them, then I won't.

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Guess it counts on what you define "Complete" as- like others said, could be kills, or finding secrets- or maybe just that sense of completion without just rushing to the end.
Depends on type of map you are playing too- gamemode as well~

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Patrol1985 said:
4. same as above, but no saved games?

When I get to know maps or replay stuff I haven't played in a good while, I play through, generally on UV but sometimes less if a map (or level set) seems too frustrating, without saves or cheats. If I reach the end I "beat it".

I pistol start from the beginning, and again from any level where I die, if it's a set. The pistol-start nodes are the only locations from where I can start (or restart).

It's "survival mode" play, essentially. My enjoyment depends largely on surviving within the "game world" and I don't want extraneous help from saves or cheats.

Occasionally I do some speed running on maps I am familiar with, which is another matter.

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Piper Maru said:

I consider a level beaten when I hit the exit switch.

This. I try to get as high of kills/secret counts as I can, especially if it's a stand alone map, but it's done when it's done.

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All 100% or buzz off. But there's always room for exception or two, especially if secret can't be activated, reason or other.

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Touchdown said:

I don't cheat unless I consider something complete bullshit. So far there are two mapsets where I cheated through the final battle: Winter's Fury and Claustrophobia: The Walls Close In. Both have prolonged, annoying, script-heavy, gimmicky, arcade boss fights and I hate those so much I don't feel bad at all about cheating through them.

There's still hope for Winter's Fury:

Pyroscourge said:

Bosses:
While I still really enjoy fighting the bosses again and again and again, regardless of how long it takes to kill them, a lot of people disliked the grind style of the later bosses. Most notably of course, the triple threat boss fight at the end. I don't particularly want to change too much about the actual design of the fights, so I figured the best idea would be to simply scale their health by difficulty level.
If anyone has any superior ideas, or any comments to make on the current state of the bosses in Winter's Fury 1.2, please do so.

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Piper Maru said:

I consider a level beaten when I hit the exit switch.


Ya, that's about it for me as well.

I don't see beating a level as a goal in itself, so the notion it might be trivial on ITYTD doesn't bother me one bit. I play on the difficulty setting I feel comfortable with, sometimes killing everything, sometimes just enough to make a path to the end.

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When I get to the exit the 10th time or something like that... Don't care much about saves. Usually I just save at level starts.

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You know, I dislike the fact that there isn't a grand total percentage amount after beating the game entirely.

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Avoozl said:
You know, I dislike the fact that there isn't a grand total percentage amount after beating the game entirely.

Ports could easily add such an option, I bet. I occasionally do that in a text file, using the same criteria as for levels in full episodes, such as in this first-time recording.

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When I get 1,000% kills is when I consider a level complete.

Nightmare is the only way to play.

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40oz said:

When I get 1,000% kills is when I consider a level complete.

Nightmare is the only way to play.


Or arch-vile and Icon of Sins levels.

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