Wolfenstein textures question

[Koko Ricky]

I feel like this has been addressed before, but it would have taken far too long to find the thread in the insufficient search feature. So if this has been tackled, feel free to lock the thread or whatever.

Anyway, the Wolf textures in Doom, as we've all noticed, are fucking gigantic. Doom allows for a fair amount of flexibility in texture size. So why didn't id make them a size more proportionate to the player? Even as a kid, this perplexed me. I figured the reasoning was to make the Cyberdemon capable of fitting through the door, but that isn't satisfying.

[clamgor]

I've noticed that as well.
Maybe in reality the original Nazis and Blazcowicz were all giants.

Somewhere along the journey Doomguy shrank.

[Dragonsbrethren]

They used the Mac/Jaguar textures as a base, which are 128x128.

I agree that using the 64x64 PC textures would've looked better, but they probably wanted to use their highest quality artwork. Enlarging the maps also gave them room for quadruple the amount of SS to each brownshirt, and gave CyberHans (and the player) plenty of room to move.

[Memfis]

Missing SS guy sprite rotations, stray pink pixel in one of them, etc suggest that the secret maps were made kinda in a hurry, maybe even with a converter tool? Perhaps they just didn't have time \ didn't feel like making them as close as possible to the original levels.

[Koko Ricky]

Dragonsbrethren: How could versions of the game released after the PC version be used as a base for the PC version? Unless I'm missing something here, the Mac/Jag versions were NOT released before the PC version.

Memfis: It probably was done in haste, but a map converter is extremely unlikely, since the engines are different and Wolfenstein has features that are impossible in Doom, namely the moving sectors. I don't think the giant textures are a matter of time constraints. It would have actually taken LESS time to say, make them 96x96.

[Dragonsbrethren]

Actually all of the evidence points away from using an automated converter. A converter would've set all of the magenta to transparent, not just the outside of the sprites. I don't doubt that they did an automated palette conversion, but it definitely seems like someone went through and did the transparent color by hand, changing it from magenta to black in the process, and missing those few pixels.

Some of the maps' vertices don't perfectly align to the 128x128 grid, meaning they were done by hand, a converter would never make that mistake.

As for being last minute, it's true that the SS thing isn't in v1.6, but the 1.3/1.4 exe (~April 1994) has references to the GDOORF and GDOORB textures, used by the old sliding door code, so the Wolfy stuff was planned that far back.

-edit-

GoatLord said:

Dragonsbrethren: How could versions of the game released after the PC version be used as a base for the PC version? Unless I'm missing something here, the Mac/Jag versions were NOT released before the PC version.

Mac and JagWolf were both released in 1994, before Doom II. They use 128x128 textures (and larger, rotationless sprites). The textures in Doom II are converted from these, not the original DOS 64x64 textures. The SS sprites are from the PC version, which is why they look so small in comparison.

JagWolf even uses Doom weapon sprites.

[Koko Ricky]

Holy shit, you're right! All this time, I assumed PC Doom 2 was the first release. Well done. That makes a lot of sense now.

[Doominator2]

Dragonsbrethren said:

Actually all of the evidence points away from using an automated converter. A converter would've set all of the magenta to transparent, not just the outside of the sprites. I don't doubt that they did an automated palette conversion, but it definitely seems like someone went through and did the transparent color by hand, changing it from magenta to black in the process, and missing those few pixels.

Some of the maps' vertices don't perfectly align to the 128x128 grid, meaning they were done by hand, a converter would never make that mistake.

As for being last minute, it's true that the SS thing isn't in v1.6, but the 1.3/1.4 exe (~April 1994) has references to the GDOORF and GDOORB textures, used by the old sliding door code, so the Wolfy stuff was planned that far back.

-edit-




Mac and JagWolf were both released in 1994, before Doom II. They use 128x128 textures (and larger, rotationless sprites). The textures in Doom II are converted from these, not the original DOS 64x64 textures. The SS sprites are from the PC version, which is why they look so small in comparison.


JagWolf even uses Doom weapon sprites.

Or the other reason....Doom Guy shrank.

[Vermil]

What I wonder if why ID choose to convert the SS Guard and not the Brown Guard?

Assuming they could only pick one bad guy.

[Clonehunter]

Maybe they felt that the SS guys would be more recognizable or iconic, as they were bright blue, spoke understandable Germanish words (Whereas everyone else minus Hans sounded fairly muffled), and were probably the most dangerous motherfuckers in the entire game sans-bosses. Mutants were easier to dispatch. Though, it would've been nice if they brought the brown guards back too. But I guess Blue SS and a mostly static Commander Keen was enough easter egging for one game.

[Da Werecat]

GoatLord said:

96x96

Nope. Only power of two for width.

[Koko Ricky]

Clonehunter said:

Maybe they felt that the SS guys would be more recognizable or iconic, as they were bright blue, spoke understandable Germanish words (Whereas everyone else minus Hans sounded fairly muffled), and were probably the most dangerous motherfuckers in the entire game sans-bosses. Mutants were easier to dispatch. Though, it would've been nice if they brought the brown guards back too. But I guess Blue SS and a mostly static Commander Keen was enough easter egging for one game.

Can't help but wonder if maybe the SS guards were the most palette friendly.

[BaronOfStuff]

GoatLord said:

Can't help but wonder if maybe the SS guards were the most palette friendly.

More than likely, the regular guard looks patchy/flat in places if directly converted (closest matching colour) from the Wolfenstein 3D palette due to Doom's tan/brown gradient being less smooth.

The SS is also the only non-boss enemy that doesn't look ridiculous if encountered; the Guard, Officer and Mutant are tiny.

[Dragonsbrethren]

Da Werecat said:

Nope. Only power of two for width.

And that's why BIGDOOR1 has that ugly border that almost no one bothers removing. (As for why the center is offset 17 instead of 16...)