Enemy design: Doom 64 versus Doom/Doom 2

[Koko Ricky]

What did you love or loathe about the changes? Discuss here.

Personally, I wasn't a fan of the death animations for a lot of the monsters in Doom 64. Some felt lazy or rushed. The originals seem more skillfully crafted in most cases. However, the the way the demon, lost soul, cyberdemon and pain elemental die in Doom 64 are superior.

As for designs, they're all fine, although it's impossible to tell the difference between the former humans and shotgunners. RAM issue, I'm sure, but it's a bit annoying. Is there even a palette difference?

The D64 barons/hell knights walk a bit funny, but along with the imp and demon, they look really fucking menacing. The pain elemental has perhaps the most extreme changes in its look, and definitely for the better. Making it hairy with two mouths was a fantastic idea.

I don't get why the cyberdemon looks so dull. It's like he lacks contrast or something. He's still pretty sick looking overall though.

[mrthejoshmon]

GoatLord said:

Personally, I wasn't a fan of the death animations for a lot of the monsters in Doom 64. Some felt lazy or rushed. The originals seem more skillfully crafted in most cases. However, the the way the demon, lost soul, cyberdemon and pain elemental die in Doom 64 are superior.

Oh god, the Cacodemon death along with the noise it makes is just plain gross... AND AWESOME!.

I like the sounds and looks of the monsters from Doom64 (Definitely the Arachnotron), but I think that the Cyberdemon could have done with more work, make him scary like the Pain Elemental (Because when you look at it, the Cyberdemon from Doom64 looks like a cat!).
But I do wonder what the Revenant would look like, he could have looked awesome if he was involved.
And maybe the Archvile... What would he look and sound like?

[Avoozl]

GoatLord said:

The pain elemental has perhaps the most extreme changes in its look, and definitely for the better. Making it hairy with two mouths was a fantastic idea.

It also has these claw like bone things on its sides.

[PRIMEVAL]

I like the designs for the most part in D64. I don't care for the Pinky as much, though. Something about it seems a bit cartoony compared to the others, to me.

[Koko Ricky]

What, and the original pinky wasn't cartoony? It does look a little ridiculous, but they're plenty creepy in the moody colored lighting and their jerky animation. Also thought I'd add, some of the ritual scenery, like the gory cage, head on a stick, blood drenched mace, and those horrible twitching piles of flesh all looked great. Anyone have any theories on the twitching meat? I always thought it resembled a mutilated baby, or some weird baby/goat thing.

[Dragonsbrethren]

Ehh, there's something "off" about them. I definitely prefer the ones that were more redesigned, like the Cacodemon and Pain Elemental. I think the others still good, though. They just don't seem to animate as well as the PC sprites, and don't seem to be as detailed despite being higher resolution.

I don't understand why they didn't palette swap the shotgun guys, either.

[Deleted_Account]

I can't really say I have a preference for the enemy designs between Doom 64 and Doom/Doom 2. I really like them both, the classic designs are always nice. But I really like all the redesigns in Doom 64 as well. I feel that the redesigns are much more menacing than their original counterparts.

Regardless, I still don't understand why Imps have such big gaping buttholes. It's even more noticeable in the Doom 64 Imps. Is there an inside joke from the developers that I'm just not getting?

[Devalaous]

I quite like the designs. If only the missing enemies were present, and the N64 wasnt so limited in frames..

[Deleted_Account]

I wonder if there was any concept art for the D64 versions of the excluded enemies?

[Da Werecat]

Dragonsbrethren said:

I don't understand why they didn't palette swap the shotgun guys, either.

They did, it's just hard to notice.

GoatLord said:

I don't get why the cyberdemon looks so dull. It's like he lacks contrast or something.

The original model wasn't detailed enough for such a large sprite, I believe.

[40oz]

I always thought the cacodemon was too cheeky. The cat eye, the skinny arms with giant hands with the chains, looked a little weird to me.

I love the way the mancubus walks, and the angled explosion of the cyberdemon (makes me wonder why more monsters didn't have a slight off angle death animation)

[Avoozl]

I wonder why they even needed to make the cyberdemon much darker.

[BaronOfStuff]

Eh, most of the D64 sprites seem to have this 'trying too hard to look evil' appearance to them, often making them appear goofy as fuck. Many are too shiny and detail-free, looking like they're made out of cheap plastic (Arachnotron, Cyberdemon). The Demon looks and moves like a lump of stop-motion Play-Doh (remarkable given that many of the original game's sprites are digitised clay/latex models yet don't really give that impression in-game). The Cacodemon looks like something a five-year old would come up with if asked to draw a 'scary monster', complete with over-obvious evil expression and spooky chains o' spookiness.

The animations on many are weak and/or clumsy, too; just look at the attack frames on the Baron/Knight (feeble, limp-armed throw), or the walking frames for the Mancubus -- why is swinging his arms around like that? Is he drunk?

The only ones I don't find all that dumb-looking are the Lost Soul and Pain Elemental, but even then the latter looks more suited to some sort of Hexen-esque game.

[Avoozl]

But when you think about it the original demons are designed in such a cheesy old fashioned kind of way.

[Da Werecat]

Chains of spookiness are awesome. Classic horror cheesiness is awesome. It is yet another reason to like Doom games in general.

BaronOfStuff said:

Is he drunk?

No. Just a little too fat.

[Koko Ricky]

Doom 64's enemies aren't as professional looking as the original, but they're more charming than Doom 3's.

[Quasar]

I like the new monster designs, and that they're also given a plausible in-universe explanation (the Mother Demon resurrected the demons to fit her own designs so they're different than before).

[betabox]

I do like the Doom 64 enemy design; to me, at least, the enemies generally have a more menacing air (except the Demon and Cacodemon, but they still look nicely designed). What i especially like is that the Mancubus doesn't sound like he's a fat joke.

[Dragonsbrethren]

Da Werecat said:

They did, it's just hard to notice.

Oh wow, they do, I never took notice to it in game. Let me rephrase, then: I don't understand why they didn't give the shotgun guys at more drastic palette swap. A shade variation is a bit hard to pick up on in a game with so much colored lighting.

BaronOfStuff said:

The Demon looks and moves like a lump of stop-motion Play-Doh (remarkable given that many of the original game's sprites are digitised clay/latex models yet don't really give that impression in-game).

Remember: "One pose, folks, or it breaks into a silly mess." Even though the clay models were digitized, they were still hand animated. I'd guess the Doom64 animations were probably captured from their 3D renders, rather than being hand edited in 2D.

Also, I think the PC demon is entirely pixel art. I've never seen a model of it. (Interestingly, there is a physical model of the Doom64 demon.)

[Deleted_Account]

I think the Doom 64 Pinky is much more terrifying than it's original PC counterpart. The PC demon isn't scary in the slightest lol.

[SFoZ911]

I have never played D64 but from the screenshots, the monster design looks cool to me, especially the cacodemon and the lost soul.

Doom2 Arachnotron looks far better IMO.

[Clonehunter]

Dragonsbrethren said:

Also, I think the PC demon is entirely pixel art. I've never seen a model of it.

http://www.doomworld.com/images/demon1.gif
http://www.doomworld.com/images/demon2.gif

And to think it appeared right when I clicked Reply. Unless this isn't it.

[Deleted_Account]

Were all the monsters in Doom originally scanned from models?

[Luke Dacote]

Doom 64's designs are kind of hit and miss. The best redesign for me personally is the Demon/Pinkie. It really intimidating and demonic. They actually look like a threat, despite the fact that they're probably the easiest enemies to defeat next to former humans. Speaking of which, as somebody has already pointed out, the zombiemen and shotgun guy are nearly indistinguishable. Also I know many people liked the Imp redesign but I'm not one of them. I think they look rather dull, probably since they don't have a face plus the colours don't really stand out much.

Pain Elementals, Lost Souls, Barons of Hell/Hell Knights, Mancubus and Mother Demon all look great in Doom 64. I don't like the look of the Cyberdemon. Again, as some have pointed out, it just looks kind of rushed and sloppy. Cacodemons in D64 also don't look good. I miss the red colour scheme and it looks like they were trying too hard to make it scary. It was creepy enough in the original games, they didn't have to change it so much. And finally the Arachnotrons which I think have the worst redesign. They just don't seem to invoke any sort of personality. The brain part looks weird and their death animation is nowhere near as satisfying as the classic style.

And speaking of poor death animation, that goes for pretty much all the D64 enemies. I had fun playing through the game for the first time but killing demons wasn't nearly as satisfying as the classic games.

[Da Werecat]

Luke Dacote said:

since they don't have a face

They have. But I liked them more when I thought they don't.