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dg93

**Deathmatch Revival** FINISHED!

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Well for a twenty minute job, it really isn't that bad. It is very plain I gotta say. For 4 player DM, the gameplay is a little slow. There are a lot of super shot guns, a little too many in my opinion. I think some item placement changes and more detail on the walls would be fine. Your map is similar to some of the Green war maps. By the way, what would you want to name the map? The file says "fuck" so I don't think I want to call it that for obvious reasons.

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Better response than I anticipated. Yeah, that won't be the final name I am still thinking of one. Item placement I have discussed so that will be dealt with anyway. Heh, I see you got the influence of the RL lift also, the back part needs to be shortened so I'll do that as well as fixing spawns. The SSG's are just placeholder for the moment so thank you I'm off too bed now anyway.

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Springy said:

Better response than I anticipated. Yeah, that won't be the final name I am still thinking of one. Item placement I have discussed so that will be dealt with anyway. Heh, I see you got the influence of the RL lift also, the back part needs to be shortened so I'll do that as well as fixing spawns. The SSG's are just placeholder for the moment so thank you I'm off too bed now anyway.


I was actually surprised you were able to crate something like that in such a short amount of time.

I think shortening the map would be a good idea as well as height variation (for the ceilings and floors). Also, you can add some more detail like creates or some tech stuff. That might work well in the map.

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Still not exactly perfect but here you go
-Taken out redundant SSG's.
-Added health.
-Taken out four central spawns.
-Some detail.

Some things still need work. Remains untested for now I didn't want to put a chaingun in as I disagree with the .DEH changes that I tested, this however is my personal opinion but I also have a thought on this, why not change just the pistol? Perhaps use the dual pistols from DV2? With permission of course that way at least the pistol gets a bit more use. I have put chainguns in though but I originally didn't want to as I said.

Still to come on the DMR: the item spawns may somehow move, DG93 gets pissed off due to the Dead Simple like clone and what will the final name be? Find out next time in the DM revival thread.

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Springy said:

Still not exactly perfect but here you go
-Taken out redundant SSG's.
-Added health.
-Taken out four central spawns.
-Some detail.

Some things still need work. Remains untested for now I didn't want to put a chaingun in as I disagree with the .DEH changes that I tested, this however is my personal opinion but I also have a thought on this, why not change just the pistol? Perhaps use the dual pistols from DV2? With permission of course that way at least the pistol gets a bit more use. I have put chainguns in though but I originally didn't want to as I said.

Still to come on the DMR: the item spawns may somehow move, DG93 gets pissed off due to the Dead Simple like clone and what will the final name be? Find out next time in the DM revival thread.


This version is better. I like some of the height variation and choice of textures you used. There are a few texture offsets by some of the steps. I can easily fix that myself if you want.

I don't know what I'm going to do with the weapons. I'm getting more complaints than compliments from people about the sounds/dehacked weapons file. As much as I would love to spice up DMR with new pistol/chaingun speeds, I think it is safe to just leave them the way they are to avoid negative feedback.

Lol, I'm not pissed off at all that your level is similarly designed to Doom2's MAP07. Matter of fact, about 1/4th of the levels in DMR are based off some design elements from Doom 1 and Doom 2. Besides, MAP07 from Doom2 is an excellent map for deathmatching (in my opinion of course).

Thanks again for taking the MAP26 slot :)
Any word back from Dr. Sean?

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Here is beta 3a: http://www.mediafire.com/download/svqzcoxld83r01g/DMR_DG93+beta+3a.zip

All custom sprites, weapons and sounds are gone.

MAP35: Rocket sprite 'bug' spotted by joe-ilya fixed. Decay's name removed and replaced with Springy.

MAP26: "Hell Halls" has been cut and replaced with Springy's unnamed map. New midi added in replace of the old one from beta 3.

As usual, give me some feedback.

@Springy, I just realized that your map is missing an exit. May I add one in?

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So are you accepting any more maps or are entries closed now? Because I don't want to keep bugging you guys. :)

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Implemented exit and cleaned stairs issue, added a few rockets too. New name is "Deathmatch Simple" but I haven't renamed the file as that'll screw up my Doombuilder open list as I have other projects as well and I like to keep them in the list of "recent wads". I would have allowed you to have done it but I have a habit of not liking people touching my maps as it feels that I then haven't fully made it (if that made any sense, probably not still hungover). http://www.mediafire.com/download/2oldevivq7o5r24/F*ck.wad

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doomguy93 interestingly stated:
...Besides, MAP07 from Doom2 is an excellent map for deathmatching (in my opinion of course).


Dead Simple is a fantastic DM map. From Doom II, which map is better for DM: Entryway or Dead Simple?
Because while Entryway has good detailing and is equipped with fairly good DM properties, it's quite easy to tell which maps have been based off it.

And while Dead Simple is great in both SP and DM and is more well-received than Entryway, it lacks that tiny spark of detail.

Plus, since Dead Simple is already great, DM wads like DWANGO5 that base off it don't edit it at all - although the latter did fill it with a shitload of random weapons.

I'm interested by your statement about lots of DM Revival maps being based off Doom II maps.

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I advise against looking to IWAD maps for inspiration for modern DM maps. The only maps that still find play are 01 and VERY RARELY 07.

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@Springy: I'll check out your version later. I'm a bit busy at the moment with stuff unrelated to DMR.

@Joe667: All level slots are occupied. I have nothing against your map, but I just don't think it is suitable for DMR. It would be better suited for a Skulltag themed wad project in my opinion. And I do like both Doom 2's Entryway and Dead Simple maps. Dead Simple is more of an arena styled map while Entryway is more of an indoor/outdoor techbase hybrid. I personally like DWANGO5's Entryway map over the traditional Doom 2 map.

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Marcaek said:

I advise against looking to IWAD maps for inspiration for modern DM maps. The only maps that still find play are 01 and VERY RARELY 07.


Yeah not all Doom 1 or Doom 2 IWAD maps are suitable for DM play, but a few are. Map29 from DMR is a perfect example of a well-balanced hybrid of Doom E1M1.

Oh I even helped Omegalore make the current MAP20 "Inferno Arena" which in my opinion is a magnificant version of Doom E1M8.

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Marcaek said:

I advise against looking to IWAD maps for inspiration for modern DM maps. The only maps that still find play are 01 and VERY RARELY 07.

That's due to the lack of flow mostly for example as you stated map 01. Dwango 5 map01 however, added the flow to it hence its popularity. Dead Simple works because of the flow (crap item placement aside). You can still look at the maps for inspiration on areas just make your own with twists or whatever and make sure they flow.

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Well, there are so many other DM WADs out there that don't have those issues, I dunno why anyone would look to the Doom stock maps.

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Marcaek said:

Well, there are so many other DM WADs out there that don't have those issues, I dunno why anyone would look to the Doom stock maps.

I know, I'm just saying that you can still use ideas from them. I didn't mean that you can only base ideas on the IWADs and nothing else. It just sounded to me like you were saying that you shouldn't base any ideas from them. I tend to base ideas on DM wads I have played as well as the odd stock map. Though this is my first map that has its idea influenced by a stock Doom 2 map.

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Hi All,

Right, I've uploaded a slightly revised version of the map >>> Clicky Here <<<

Regarding the deep water. Maybe my map title was too subtle.
Dihydrogen Monoxide = H20 = WATER

The point of the map is the deep water and as such it has to stay otherwise I might as well submit a different map.

The uploaded version contains the linedefs needed to allow bots to open doors and i've also included a midi file (Magnetic Fields IV, Jean Michel-Jarre).

Dave

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doomguy93 said:

I have nothing against your map...


The one I submitted? Oh, I was talking about another one.
And I'm aware what was wrong with it, but oh well.

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Phendrena said:

Hi All,

Right, I've uploaded a slightly revised version of the map >>> Clicky Here <<<

Regarding the deep water. Maybe my map title was too subtle.
Dihydrogen Monoxide = H20 = WATER

The point of the map is the deep water and as such it has to stay otherwise I might as well submit a different map.

The uploaded version contains the linedefs needed to allow bots to open doors and i've also included a midi file (Magnetic Fields IV, Jean Michel-Jarre).

Dave


To be honest Phendrena, I really like your map a lot. However, I strongly urge that you don't have any deep water in that map. It just isn't good at all for deathmatching. Other than that with the fixed linedefs, the map is great. Personally, I think it would be unnecessary to cut the map just because the theme is 'deep water.' Can we at least rename it and not use the deep water effect? I would rather not go through anymore rework/ cut phases of DMR. It would slow down the project and my time is becoming very limited. Trust me, having a map with ridiculously deep water is not suitable for deathmatching.

And your new midi file is good. I will use that in replace of the current one.

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doomguy93 said:

To be honest Phendrena, I really like your map a lot. However, I strongly urge that you don't have any deep water in that map. It just isn't good at all for deathmatching. Other than that with the fixed linedefs, the map is great. Personally, I think it would be unnecessary to cut the map just because the theme is 'deep water.' Can we at least rename it and not use the deep water effect? I would rather not go through anymore rework/ cut phases of DMR. It would slow down the project and my time is becoming very limited. Trust me, having a map with ridiculously deep water is not suitable for deathmatching.

And your new midi file is good. I will use that in replace of the current one.

Hi,

I went with deep water as I thought that it might make for a more interesting gameplay experience, perhaps not.

I'll bow to your judgement on this one then and remove the really deep water, so how about a compromise? Revised version with shallow water :)

Also for your perusal is a WIP on what might've been the replacement - you'll need CC4-TEX if you want to have a look at the WIP wad though. I'll leave that one on the backburner for future projects :)

Dave

PS: If I came across as a dick in my other post I do apologise, reading it back does, to me anyway, suggest that :)

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Phendrena said:

Hi,

I went with deep water as I thought that it might make for a more interesting gameplay experience, perhaps not.

I'll bow to your judgement on this one then and remove the really deep water, so how about a compromise? Revised version with shallow water :)

Also for your perusal is a WIP on what might've been the replacement - you'll need CC4-TEX if you want to have a look at the WIP wad though. I'll leave that one on the backburner for future projects :)

Dave

PS: If I came across as a dick in my other post I do apologise, reading it back does, to me anyway, suggest that :)


Coincidentally, when I was in the process of making beta 2 or 3, I actually used the same water dept in this version you provided me with. About a month ago, I tested it out and had a couple of outside participants give there opinions on it, and they both said that the knee high deep water wasn't good for DM. My suggestion is that if you really want some water dept, it might be wise to make a bridge (not a 3D floor bridge because I don't think Odamex can support that) across so the player isn't forced to walk slowly through the knee deep water. Personally, I think it would be best not to have any water dept. I just think that the deep water ruins the gameplay. Plus I think the bars in the middle sector by the exit are a little bit unnecessary.

I checked out your alternative map, and to be honest I like the current "Dihydrogen Monoxide" map better. I think the alternative one has a too much open space.

And don't worry, you are not coming across as a dick lol
Are you still having problems playtesting the betas using Zandronum? Right now Dr. Sean from the Odamex IRC channel is trying to analyze the problem of why DMR crashed when run using Odamex.

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doomguy93 said:

Coincidentally, when I was in the process of making beta 2 or 3, I actually used the same water dept in this version you provided me with. About a month ago, I tested it out and had a couple of outside participants give there opinions on it, and they both said that the knee high deep water wasn't good for DM. My suggestion is that if you really want some water dept, it might be wise to make a bridge (not a 3D floor bridge because I don't think Odamex can support that) across so the player isn't forced to walk slowly through the knee deep water. Personally, I think it would be best not to have any water dept. I just think that the deep water ruins the gameplay. Plus I think the bars in the middle sector by the exit are a little bit unnecessary.

I checked out your alternative map, and to be honest I like the current "Dihydrogen Monoxide" map better. I think the alternative one has a too much open space.

And don't worry, you are not coming across as a dick lol
Are you still having problems playtesting the betas using Zandronum? Right now Dr. Sean from the Odamex IRC channel is trying to analyze the problem of why DMR crashed when run using Odamex.

Hi,

I think we'll have the agree to disagree on this one. The shallow water stays - BUT - it is now not as shallow and i've removed the 'swimmable' flag so it won't slow you down. I've uploaded a revised version (same link) that removes the bars from around the central section.

As for the alternative that I uploaded - yeah, it does have a lot of open, rather empty, space - it is a WIP and needs filling in. I've only done that one interior section :)

Still no luck in using Odamex or Zandronum :(

Dave

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Phendrena said:

Hi,

I think we'll have the agree to disagree on this one. The shallow water stays - BUT - it is now not as shallow and i've removed the 'swimmable' flag so it won't slow you down. I've uploaded a revised version (same link) that removes the bars from around the central section.

As for the alternative that I uploaded - yeah, it does have a lot of open, rather empty, space - it is a WIP and needs filling in. I've only done that one interior section :)

Still no luck in using Odamex or Zandronum :(

Dave


It's a deal. I don't mind that the water is knee deep, as long as it doesn't slow the player down, it stays :)

I'm am really perplexed at why it isn't working with Zandronum. No one else but you seem to have that problem with Zandronum. But the Odamex issue is being taken care of as we speak, and hopefully by the end of the week it will be resolved.

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@Springy: Joe Pallai PM'd me with some suggestions regarding your map "Deathmatch Simple"

"The stairs have the usual need for a wrap-around architecture, otherwise players can hit a 48 unit high wall on the sides trying to ascend. I'd delete one of the super shotguns and put the chaingun in it's place. Not sure if the RL is the ideal weapon on the pillar--I'm thinking plasma rifle honestly. The level is a bit too symmetrical but that is the least of the problems honestly. Some lower unpegged textures to fix and do you think the "windows" should just be made lower to allow movement; as it is you can easily jump through them in Zandorum so why not just drop the floor height 8 units and be done with it."

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doomguy93 said:

@Springy: Joe Pallai PM'd me with some suggestions regarding your map "Deathmatch Simple"

"The stairs have the usual need for a wrap-around architecture, otherwise players can hit a 48 unit high wall on the sides trying to ascend. I'd delete one of the super shotguns and put the chaingun in it's place. Not sure if the RL is the ideal weapon on the pillar--I'm thinking plasma rifle honestly. The level is a bit too symmetrical but that is the least of the problems honestly. Some lower unpegged textures to fix and do you think the "windows" should just be made lower to allow movement; as it is you can easily jump through them in Zandorum so why not just drop the floor height 8 units and be done with it."

I'll make them impassible and regarding the chain gun; no there's already four on the map for spawns, RL in my opinion is ideal seeing as I hate putting a plasma rifle in such an easy place.

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Springy said:

...RL in my opinion is ideal seeing as I hate putting a plasma rifle in such an easy place.

I agree - most maps nowadays have either a Plasma rifle of BFG 9,000 to get for the players who risk a challenge (or something). Since this item is both easily accessible and unaccessable at different periods, it makes sense.

Yeah, I could have summed up all that with about one line.

[Edit]: I'm also interested by how the platform is activated by entering the middle area from a certain direction.

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Joe667 said:

I agree - most maps nowadays have either a Plasma rifle of BFG 9,000 to get for the players who risk a challenge (or something). Since this item is both easily accessible and unaccessable at different periods, it makes sense.

Yeah, I could have summed up all that with about one line.

[Edit]: I'm also interested by how the platform is activated by entering the middle area from a certain direction.

Linedef 53 is what you need, I'm assuming you know how tags work. The stairs was a stupid mistake on my behalf, I thought I put them behind the thing obviously not. Made those lines impassible, pushed back the stairs as it was supposed to be and no I'm not removing one SSG to place a chaingun in it's place and that is final. http://www.mediafire.com/download/2oldevivq7o5r24/F*ck.wad

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@Springy, I think your map should have a plasma rifle and some cage textures by the new impassable linedefs you made. Other than that the map looks good.

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