**Deathmatch Revival** FINISHED!

[Doomkid]

Hey DG, me and a few others have play tested the latest build, and we'll have detailed notes posted soon. I would right now but it's nearly 4 am and I've got a lecture tomorrow... Oh boy.

I think it would be a really good idea for you to download IDE and be on the zdaemon, zandronum and odamex irc channels all at once. The way these projects become so popular is from whoring them around, so don't be afraid to talk about it on all ends of the Dooming spectrum. This will be a good way to drum up more play testers too!

[dg93]

Doomkid92 said:

Hey DG, me and a few others have play tested the latest build, and we'll have detailed notes posted soon. I would right now but it's nearly 4 am and I've got a lecture tomorrow... Oh boy.

I think it would be a really good idea for you to download IDE and be on the zdaemon, zandronum and odamex irc channels all at once. The way these projects become so popular is from whoring them around, so don't be afraid to talk about it on all ends of the Dooming spectrum. This will be a good way to drum up more play testers too!

That's excellent news Doomkid! Send me those detailed notes asap. I'll look into downloading that IDE thing. Thanks again for your help man!

[Doomkid]

Alrighty, here's everything we found.

=================
Minor issues: Map07's slime falls look very odd still, maybe they should be changed in some way though I'm not exactly sure how, but as is, they look pretty dodgy. (The new MIDI is MUCH better)

In map08, the BFG that's in a "doortrak box" can be bumped in Odamex and ZD, but not in Zandronum. I don't think that was intentional at all, the box should be made a few pixels wider to prevent cheap BFG spam on this map.

Map 11 is great fun, but the small wall on the east side of the map looks like stairs from afar - perhaps change it to a gray brick texture? Other than that, lots of fun.

LOL, I notice that map15 now has it's full name in-game and not just in the text file. A bit dirty of me, but it really lives up to it's name for people familiar with the BFG cone. Not really an issue so to speak, just a bit naughty - It's my fault after all though!

The computer panels on the walls all say 2013 still. Another minor thing, an easy fix making them say 2014.

Map17, while fun, is absolutely riddled with missing textures, and just looks quite plain overall. This map is excellent in terms of gameplay, it just needs some serious cosmetic work.

Map20 is a great duel map, but even with a 1v1, it's still 'crowded' in a sense. You know the secret door in the brown thing the 2 barons come out of on e1m8? Maybe add that secret door in this map that lowers a teleporter to another zone or something. This one looks totally schmick though, awesome hell theme going on here.

The lift in map23 looks pretty weird, along with other strange texturing choices, but overall it doesn't look bad, a nice true-to-doom2 theme. Another case of "badass gameplay, a bit wonky on the texturing."

The button on map35 that used to hide the big Doomguy picture is still there, but it now does nothing when pressed. Easy to miss, just slap a non-switch texture there and it will be all good.
=================

All in all, these maps are looking vastly improved from when I was still managing it. The few changes mentioned above along with appropriate amount of "project whoring" (not too much, but not too little!) should get this community effort the appreciation it deserves. The other Doom forums, and the Doom IRC channels almost always have people willing to help test out WADs and other projects.

I still need to test everything in Odamex too just to ensure full compatability. I hope to see this thing take off more, because this progress is wonderful. Someone would have to be very picky to find any other issues with these maps. AS far as community deathmatch packs go, there really aren't many, and this could set a pretty high benchmark.

So glad to see how far its come. Some of these maps have turned from "decent" into very, very impressive. Keep up the good work :)

(Some fresh screenshots of all this progress can't hurt either!)

[dg93]

[Doomkid]

I'll double check every author name to make sure, but at a glance everyone seems to be credited.

The balance of guns seems fine in all the maps, but others may feel differently. The BFG and SSG especially seem to be used well, so people won't feel they have repetitive gameplay - I like that some of them are chaingun or single-barrel centric. Keeps the maps fresh as they move along!

[dg93]

Doomkid92 said:

I'll double check every author name to make sure, but at a glance everyone seems to be credited.

The balance of guns seems fine in all the maps, but others may feel differently. The BFG and SSG especially seem to be used well, so people won't feel they have repetitive gameplay - I like that some of them are chaingun or single-barrel centric. Keeps the maps fresh as they move along!

Great! Just wondering, are you on zdaemon now? Maybe we can do some playtesting right now.

[Doomkid]

Damn, I probably was online, but I closed my broswer instantly! Add me to your buddy list, my name online for all 3 ports is just "Doomkid". When you install IDE, it makes a sound when a buddy is online no matter which IRC chatroom/Doom server he's in, it's ultra convienient.

[dg93]

Doomkid92 said:

Damn, I probably was online, but I closed my broswer instantly! Add me to your buddy list, my name online for all 3 ports is just "Doomkid". When you install IDE, it makes a sound when a buddy is online no matter which IRC chatroom/Doom server he's in, it's ultra convienient.

I just added you to my buddy list in zdaemon. Do you have a server up and running? My connection to the zdaemon IRC is messed up (I don't know why).

[joepallai]

great feedback doomkid; when you get a chance can you send me the ide file with the commentary so I can see it? I have a long weekend so I can address some of the texturing problems in my maps.

As to the lift texture used on map23; I was debating using BigDoor5 there but went with the traditional texture. (there really should be more lift type textures....)

[dg93]

joepallai said:

great feedback doomkid; when you get a chance can you send me the ide file with the commentary so I can see it? I have a long weekend so I can address some of the texturing problems in my maps.

As to the lift texture used on map23; I was debating using BigDoor5 there but went with the traditional texture. (there really should be more lift type textures....)

Hey Joe, if you are going to be fixing the custom texture issues in your MAP 17, you should use this updated version of DMR: http://www.mediafire.com/download/ffnyt5wuu1h4gpo/DMR+2014.zip

Send back the exact file with the fixes you made when you are done.

@Doomkid: For your next online beta playtesting session, do you think you can submit a news thread on Doomworld/Zandronum so more people who haven't heard of the project can participate?

[Doomkid]

doomguy93 said:@Doomkid: For your next online beta playtesting session, do you think you can submit a news thread on Doomworld/Zandronum so more people who haven't heard of the project can participate?

Absolutely!

@Joe, I apologize but I didn't keep a recording with commentary (doh!) I just played a LAN match with my fiancee and my buddy Alex, who goes by Lextiic online. They're both OS Doomers, so I figured they could lend some helpful advice, and indeed they did :)

[dg93]

I think Lexiitic helped make the rape Dungeon map with you. I listed his name in the credits.

Anyway, let me know when you will be doing another session. :)

[joepallai]

Doomkid92 said:

Absolutely!

@Joe, I apologize but I didn't keep a recording with commentary (doh!) I just played a LAN match with my fiancee and my buddy Alex, who goes by Lextiic online. They're both OS Doomers, so I figured they could lend some helpful advice, and indeed they did :)

okay, no problem...wait your fiancé plays Doom? no wonder you're marrying that girl...

[dg93]

joepallai said:

wait your fiancé plays Doom? no wonder you're marrying that girl...

lol He definitely found the right girl to marry!

[dg93]

Just an update: I notified some of the authors on the Zandronum forums about DMR's progress on Joe Pallai's thread he made back in July. I just wanted to keep them in the loop with what's going on.

I touched up the pwad just a little bit. I noticed that Dusk's name was still in the CREDITS screen and in MAP35. I removed his scrolling name and simply replaced it with Lextiic's.

I think there should be a new CREDITS screen with our names properly listed. The one that I have been working with looks crappy due to the "cut 'n paste" technique I've been using.

Doomkid, what editing application did you use to make the CREDITS using the Doom styled letters? Also, in MAP35 where exactly is that button you are referring to that used to hide the big Doomguy picture? I can't seem to find it.

[plums]

OK, so by request I've skimmed through these maps. I have really no interest in Doom DM so I don't have much to say on the gameplay front, I didn't see any obvious red flags though. Since I'm not a DM player some of this criticism to follow might be off the mark or entirely irrelevant; if so, feel free to ignore.

General inconsistencies and potential issues:

• A few maps have secrets, which strikes me as weird though harmless I guess. A few maps also have monsters which is also weird. Some look like they're designed to be part of the DM gameplay, some are mostly decorative, and some look like they're meant to offer a meager single-player experience which I think is unnecessary.
  
  
• There's some inconsistant nukage use, where it isn't damaging on a few levels. Similarly there are lots of doors that are purely decorative on some maps. In SP this would be annoying, for DM maybe it's not so bad if the players are expected to know the maps beforehand.
  
  
• The music is thematically all over the place. The volume levels on a few songs aren't balanced, though at least there aren't any tracks that are super-loud compared to the majority.
  
  
• Visually the quality really varies, some maps look very nice, some look clean and simple, some look kind of primitive and a few look like ass. There's a little too much DMR logo use everywhere for my liking, but TNT did it so I guess you can too ;)
  
  
• My dinosaur of a computer had framedrops from high detail on a few maps: 07, 09, 20, and a little on 25. In SP it wouldn't be anything too serious but in DM it would be frustrating. If you're assuming most people have relatively new computers it's probably not a problem, but I feel like for Doom it's nice to cater to older machines unless you're doing something that specifically requires better hardware.
  
  
• There are maps in different formats (Doom/Hexen/UDMF?) This is the least important problem really but I thought it was peculiar.

Specific map notes:

• MAP 03: There's a bunch of edges to get caught on. This is one of the better looking maps, thanks to good texture use.
  
  
• MAP 05: The one-time switches are an odd choice for DM. I don't know if there's an easier way to get the chaingun or shotgun on the brown ledges but I found it kind of a hard jump for little reward.
  
  
• MAP 08: I was able to get stuck in the BFG box outdoors. Either make the floor damaging or don't let the player get stuck.
  
  
• MAP 17: Missing STEPLIT1 and STEPLIT2 textures.
  
  
• MAP 22: Error about missing ADEL_W23 texture although I couldn't see a missing texture anywhere. This is one of the worse-looking maps and the teleporter-heavy action makes me think it would be annoying to play, also.
  
  
• MAP 27: The volume on the lead instrument (sax?) of the music is wonky, sometimes it's loud for a few notes and the rest of the time it's really quiet.
  
  
• MAP 33: The added picture textures look kind of goofy, especially that silly evil Sonic thing. The music doesn't sound right, the bass note sounds like it's playing the wrong note. There's a toilet(?) you can drop into with a switch to get out of, the switch texture is unaligned and it seems like the floor stays raised after hitting it.

It feels like a decent collection of levels but I don't get a sense of "epicness" like I do from some of the other classic DM packs, partly due to lack of consistency. However if the gameplay is good that is the most important thing, and like I said I don't have much to comment on in that regard. Hopefully this was of some use anyhow.

[dg93]

Hey thanks for the review plums. That’s good to hear that there weren’t any obvious red flags throughout the maps.
I’m not really sure why some authors put secretes in some of their maps, but I don’t think it is that much of a major concern. Some maps do have demons just to add the DM gameplay, but I do think that a few maps should not have demons at all (MAP01, MAP02, & MAP18). Matter of fact, MAP18 has WAY too many demons in it and I should look to remove them.

The inconsistency nukage throughout the maps does bother me a little bit. Joe Pallai even brought it up to me when we playtested the maps online. I think Doomkid had damaging floors to prevent camping by the exits in some of the levels. But I agree, it does seem weird that a map like MAP06 has no damaging nukage while MAP07 has damaging nukage. It would definitely be annoying in SP, but some DM maps don’t use damaging nukage in their maps.

MAP27’s MIDI volume needs to be amplified just by a few decibels. Thankfully I got rid of the really loud and obnoxious MIDIS a while ago. The MIDIs for MAP07 and MAP11 might need to have their sound decreased by a decibel or two (that is just my opinion).

Just a note, this project is like a community chest of an assortment of different mapping styles. That is why you noticed that the visuals vary. Some look like the DWANGO maps, a few like Green War, Gothic, etc…

How old is your PC? Lol I tested the DMR pwad on old/ new PC’s and I never had any problem with the frame consistency. The oldest PC I tested it on was on a 2001 Dell tower model. It ran fine.

To answer your question: Yes, there are maps in different formats. I believe there are 4 or 5 maps in Zdoom (Doom in Hexen) format and the rest are in Zdoom (Doom in Doom) format. I don’t think it is a problem at all.

In MAP03, where exactly were the edges you got caught on?
That’s odd, I never got stuck in the BFG box in MAP08. I find that concerning and I will take a look at that. Thanks for pointing that one out.
I think you played a slightly outdated version of DMR, because I might have forgotten to upload a fixed version that contains a few revisions Doomkid mentioned, which included the missing STEPLITE1 & STEPLITE2 textures in MAP17. That problem has been resolved.
I never noticed any texture error of a missing ADEL_W23 texture. This map is actually a mockery of Mario Kart 64’s Block Fort battle map. It’s fun when playing against DM players, but I don’t particularly like the BFG lifts with the partial invisibility power-ups. That is my only complaint about the level.
MAP33 is an odd map, but I guess that was the author’s theme and intentions were. I do think the toilet should not have the water stay risen when the player is lifted out of it. Other than that, the music isn’t in MIDI format. In fact, I think it was from a Simpsons Doom WAD.

I’m glad that you found the DMR pack to have a decent collection of levels. Hopefully, the “epicness” aspect will come from the gameplay itself. After all, gameplay over graphics is what really matters.
Thanks again for spotting some of the potential errors in some of the maps!

[Walter confetti]

I know that map33 is pretty weird, but is a huge inspired map from the 90s age of house death match level...

[joepallai]

On map24 there's a texture alignment issue I found earlier today. I'll fix it tonight and send another update.

love map 33--stupidly fun map imo, the 90's theme works well here and brings back memories

[plums]

doomguy93 said:

The inconsistency nukage throughout the maps does bother me a little bit.

Maybe use one of the SLIME flats for liquid which isn't damaging? Damaging floors in places are fine, it's just the visual cues.

How old is your PC? Lol I tested the DMR pwad on old/ new PC’s and I never had any problem with the frame consistency. The oldest PC I tested it on was on a 2001 Dell tower model. It ran fine.

Athlon XP 2400, about 10 years old, with a half-decent graphics card. It's not that I got bad framerates in any level, but that it would be much worse from certain viewpoints on those maps, and so doing quick turns caused some quick drops. I guess just keep in mind for now, if someone else complains about them, then maybe do something about it?

In MAP03, where exactly were the edges you got caught on?

These window things were easy to back into, as were these columns though maybe there's enough space in the room that it doesn't matter.


If you decide that neither of those are a problem, then fine.

That’s odd, I never got stuck in the BFG box in MAP08. I find that concerning and I will take a look at that. Thanks for pointing that one out.

Definitely possible to get stuck, though fairly unlikely in an actual match.

I never noticed any texture error of a missing ADEL_W23 texture. This map is actually a mockery of Mario Kart 64’s Block Fort battle map. ... MAP33 is an odd map, but I guess that was the author’s theme and intentions were.

Ah, the colourful sky on MAP08 and the 90's band posters in MAP33 should've clued me in that those were homages :) Okay no problem then. Though I still think the music in MAP33 needs fixing or changing. Jeez Walter, what is it with your maps having music that annoys me? ;)

Anyhow hopefully this project of yours is well received, good luck all.

[Doomkid]

Thanks for all the feedback plums!

I think maybe we should rehaul level order altogether, and have them flow from the smallest, less detailed maps to the larger and more detailed ones, to reduce the sense of clashing themes. I'll go through yet again and organize a new potential map order and see what everyone thinks.

[dg93]

@plums: I'll probably just make no damaging nukage in all the maps. The only damaging liquids that would be in the maps would be lava(because it just seems rather silly that a player can just walk across it without getting hurt, thus highly unrealistic). But I'm certain that whatever maps have the lava are already set to a damaging floor.

Athlon XP 2400, I've never heard of the model PC, but the Doom source ports typically run fine on Windows XP & Windows 7.

Oh I see what you are talking about from those snap shots. If it significantly infringes on the gameplay, then maybe I'll look into doing something about it. I would rather not mess around with it if it doesn't really need adjustment.

I also think the odds that a DM player would get stuck in that BFG box is like a 1% chance. The mechanism of the BFG box is set so that the DM player runs on the platforms to grab the weapon and lands back on the grass area. The player would most likely not linger in the box area for more than a second.

lol I'm glad you now see the 90's homages in DMR :)
I agree with Joe Pallai, MAP33 is stupidly fun just like MAP22.
The 90's themed maps are very nostalgic for just about all of us.
This is the N64 Mario Kart Block Fort (MAP22) level

I'm no expert on fixing music files or MIDIs, but I MIGHT be able to find somebody that know how to edit them.

@Joe Pallai, where in MAP24 did you spot the texture offset?

@Doomkid, I was originally thinking about reordering the maps. I'm not against that idea. However, I've always had bad luck in the past screwing up the maps that were in different formats in XWE and I personally don't want to deal with having to undergo fixing the lumps in the pwad. Last time I tried switching map slot 30 with MAP35, it messed up the skies and even erased the map that came after it. Then when I tried fix it, the next map somehow got erased. It was a really bad domino effect, but fortunately I was able to fix it (I don't even remember how I did it but it took me hours to fix everything lol) I fucking hate XWE sometimes. Me + map editing in XWE = Total Disaster. But if you think you are XWE savvy, you are more than welcome to rearrange the order of the maps yourself :) By the way, based on the Mario Kart N64 level, I think it would be a really neat idea to make 3D floor bridges using zdoom(doom in hexen) format just like the actual Block Fort level. That is just a suggestion. I personally think that the BFG lifts with the partial invisibility power-ups just aren't working out very well. I can easily make those 3D floor bridges if you like.

[joepallai]

doomguy93 said:

@Joe Pallai, where in MAP24 did you spot the texture offset?

[/B]

It's in the central hall at ground level, the GSTONE blocks have the same x axis increment repeating for about 3 or 4 sections. It's the section we caught during the live beta testing.

[dg93]

joepallai said:

It's in the central hall at ground level, the GSTONE blocks have the same x axis increment repeating for about 3 or 4 sections. It's the section we caught during the live beta testing.

Ahh, now I remember that one... I just fixed it now. Good job spotting that. I don't know how I didn't catch that one.

[dg93]

Here is an update version of DMR 2014.wad containing the minor touch ups I've done based on the reviews by Doomkid & plums: http://www.mediafire.com/download/68ov7wex8i5z298/DMR+2014.zip

New Credits screen: **Note** I'm not 100% satisfied with how this new one looks. It will most definitely get edited. The problem is that our names aren't all fitting well in the picture and I'm trying to find better ways to accommodate the picture dimensions/ size our the names.


Report:


Basically, I removed all of the demons throughout the maps (in exception to MAP05, MAP16, MAP20, & MAP24). These four maps are the only ones that have demons and they are in caged sectors so that they don't interfere with the DM players by aimlessly roaming around.

All Co-op player starts in the maps have been removed, because there was no need for them in the first place. MAP30 was missing a player 1 start so I added one near the middle sector of the map.

More miscellaneous notes/fixes: All nukage is non-damaging throughout all the maps. The texture offset in MAP24 has been fixed. Another texture offset (from the secret door to BFG lift switch) in MAP31 fixed. Credits screen has been edited by removing "Dusk's" name and our names have been reformatted (I didn't know how to make the letters in the classic Doom font, so I apologize if I disappointed anyone). However, the background image is not damaged by the use of the sloppy cut 'n pasting of letters technique I used not too long ago. Joe Pallai's textures in MAP17 are fixed (I think I might have mentioned that one already). Computer consoles have been updated to say DMR 2014 instead of 2013. In the credits map, the DMR 2014 texture next to Doomkid & one_Two's names has been fixed (The "4" in 2014 looks better)

So what's left?.... For the most part, all of the maps are basically done. A couple of MIDI's could be edited (Particularly MAP27's MIDI and MAP33's music format). The order of the maps might be rearranged. Map22 might be slightly modifed(?) I might look into the 'unintentional' BFG box trap in MAP08, though the likelihood of getting trapped in there during the DM gameplay is very slim, but still possible. Also, another live beta playtesting session should be adequate. Hit up Doomkid to get the latest updates regarding playtesting DMR.

What else.... Well that's all I could think of (at the moment). I'll go insane if I have to do anymore nitpicking of these maps at 6:12 am.

[Doomkid]

Great work, DG. I'll get the maps rearranged as soon as i can, and also work on a new credits image. DMR is truly nearing completion :)

[dg93]

Doomkid92 said:

Great work, DG. I'll get the maps rearranged as soon as i can, and also work on a new credits image. DMR is truly nearing completion :)

Awesome! I appreciate the help as always Doomkid.

Another update: I fixed the BFG box trap in MAP08. If the player gets stuck in the box, they can lower the lift by pressing the doortrack walls. The linedefs of the doortack walls are set to 62 (Platform Lower Wait Raise) in zdoom(Doom in Hexen) format. The movement speed is set to 60 and the delay speed is set to 10. It is also a repeatable action. Problem solved. Cheers!

[dg93]

Another possible Credits picture... Yes or No? Suggestions?

[Doomkid]

Much better! Still working on a new maplist. Can you send me the latest file, DG?

[dg93]

Doomkid92 said:

Much better! Still working on a new maplist. Can you send me the latest file, DG?

Glad you liked it DK :)

Here is the latest file: http://www.mediafire.com/download/851j2y625j6yejq/DMR+2014+2_24_2014.zip

I still need to work on the MAP27's midi and see what I can do about MAP33's midi as well. Other than that and the rearangement of the maps, 1 more playtesting session should be enough.