NOVA: The Birth [Beta Playtesting Thread - We're ready!]

[mouldy]

Veinen said:

... a miniature Ribbiks trap that locks you in (too easy though?)

man its hilarious how easy everyone finds that bit, when I first made the map it was even easier and I still found it difficult.

Cool demo, cheers!

[plums]

Map20: Kind of a silly title, but otherwise a nice map. No real problems so I have to find insignificant details to complain about!

http://i.imgur.com/BIukU4c.png
More secrets visible on the automap. Though despite this, and even getting the computer map, I only got 4 of 7 secrets. It's also less of a problem here because there aren't many secret doors that require actually pressing the wall like a door.

http://i.imgur.com/dQhhXIU.png
OK, here's petty for you: these cutouts on the big brick texture would look nicer if they were aligned with the texture vertically, I think. In this case, lowering the ceiling a little. Or not, if you prefer!

http://i.imgur.com/mzcKRxk.png
The texture repeat on this far-away mountain thing is quite apparent. It looks like there's no texture alignment on any of the walls?

The cyberdemon fight was again quite easy, even without the BFG secret. Still it was a fun excuse to spam rockets and cells.

mouldy said:

man its hilarious how easy everyone finds that bit, when I first made the map it was even easier and I still found it difficult.

Overall this wad doesn't seem super-hard, and I think that's fine. In that regard a very punishing deathtrap would seem out of place. The only real hectic combat I can remember is on MAP31, and given that it's a secret map and also entirely avoidable within that map, it doesn't really count.

[Veinen]

Oh but there will be hard, you just wait. More demos, maps 20-22.

Map20: Pretty decent map. A bit of a step down in the aesthetics department but it doesn't reeally look bad per se. Just more simple and back to the basics type of visuals. I have no idea why I had so much trouble with this, because it's truly not very hard, but I died a few times early on and thus the demo is yet another one of those partial FDAs. First death was unlucky though a rocket suicide because a Pinkie decided to appear from behind a corner at the most inopportune moment. The demo is very scrappy too and I'm very close to death late in the map. Highlight combat-wise is the Archie placement imo, all three are somewhat threatening and will very likely resurrect bodies.

Map21: Well, this is a slightly bigger step down in the aesthetics department. It's abstract I guess so there's that, but in the end it's quite a messy map. Too much happening for it's own good. Could be a little less cramped also, and in fact in the few rooms it opens up a little it's pretty decent. The fenced area near the end is pretty poor overall. The lowering down in nothingness at the end is interesting though.

Map22: Well this is definitely a Hurricyclone map. He has a very unique, kind of an abstract realistic style, with minimalistic detailing and very large structures. I think it tends to get a bit boring after a while to be honest but at least we have some variations between hellish and metallic in this map. The gameplay is not bad but it suffers a bit from the overly large rooms. The Cyber part is pretty nice and it's where my journey ends. Wasn't in the mood for starting over and it didn't seem like there was much left anyway. And the explosion effect is cool too.

[plums]

Veinen said:

Oh but there will be hard, you just wait.

Hah, ok.

MAP21: Kind of wonky visually, but I liked it. I guess it feels a little out of place between the other polished levels.

Secret doors are not marked hidden on this map.

http://i.imgur.com/FxkPzUR.png
I'd give some of these steps an offset, doesn't look right for them to all have the same section of that texture showing.

http://i.imgur.com/VF2zG3Q.png
This nukage doesn't damage you I think? All the other nukage in the level does, so it seems accidental.

The lowering into the void was cool at the end but that sky texture really doesn't tile so well.


MAP22: Agree with Veinen on all counts. Also annoying that you can't get 100% kills, I'd recommend a crusher triggers to kill those barons, for those who make it through the candle path. Have a slowly lowering wall before the exit to keep the player from leaving before they're dead.

The big hellish cavern seemed kind of plain detail-wise in comparison to other maps or even other parts of this map.

http://i.imgur.com/hg7ewjF.png
I love this room. Those cables!

http://i.imgur.com/wMQibvK.png
I like this too but you actually can't walk across those buttons which feels a bit weird. Same for the couch arms.

http://i.imgur.com/iEs7yPJ.png
Again, secret doors visible as such on the automap.

[cannonball]

Cheers for the responses guys to my maps. Just a few tweaks required, I am currently redoing the final room of map15, so it will actually pose a real threat to the player, because I've obviously let people off lightly here :P

[NuMetalManiak]

plums said:

MAP22: Also annoying that you can't get 100% kills, I'd recommend a crusher triggers to kill those barons, for those who make it through the candle path. Have a slowly lowering wall before the exit to keep the player from leaving before they're dead.

Maybe I shouldn't have it playtested in Zdoom since that's the only port I know that doesn't count the barons as kills. (they would not be marked as monsters but "friends" since they're on a Type 11 damaging floor) As for the slowly lowering wall. that would be a pain for speedrunners, so no.

I love this room. Those cables!

Cute, but on some ports there's slime trails and shit. I thought it'd look cool too but then it obviously would fuck up visually.

I like this too but you actually can't walk across those buttons which feels a bit weird. Same for the couch arms.

Why should you?

Again, secret doors visible as such on the automap.

That's fine.

Veinen said:

Map22: Well this is definitely a Hurricyclone map. He has a very unique, kind of an abstract realistic style, with minimalistic detailing and very large structures. I think it tends to get a bit boring after a while to be honest but at least we have some variations between hellish and metallic in this map. The gameplay is not bad but it suffers a bit from the overly large rooms. The Cyber part is pretty nice and it's where my journey ends. Wasn't in the mood for starting over and it didn't seem like there was much left anyway. And the explosion effect is cool too.

Yeah I tried abstractness once in this project, most likely will not come back. I'm definitely getting better in detail, so expect a possible surprise this next year :p.

And heads up, if ANYONE found my maps too hard, that's mainly because dobu wanted them to be hard. He told me to remove a ton of health and ammo and added more monsters, among other things.

[plums]

Hurricyclone said:

Maybe I shouldn't have it playtested in Zdoom since that's the only port I know that doesn't count the barons as kills. (they would not be marked as monsters but "friends" since they're on a Type 11 damaging floor)

With what settings/ZDoom version? I used GZDoom 1.8.4 (based on ZDoom 2.7.1) and it definitely didn't register those Barons as frendlies.
edit: Found the setting, definitely a ZDoom-ism. "End sector counts for kill %" in gameplay options.

I guess you could use a multi-crusher to kill them very quickly.

Why should you?

Conceptually it doesn't make sense that a person could stand on a console but somehow not cross over where there are buttons. But if you don't want to change it then fine, it doesn't make much difference to the map anyhow.

[mouldy]

Ok, time to start playing through from pistol starts.

Map 01

Simple and solid start, maybe a bit too simple for my tastes but it is only map 1. I like how it starts with all the opposition behind you up on the ledge, the rest of the fighting is fairly routine and without surprises, and the map is pretty much a straight path from A to B splatting the few enemies who get in the way. But it does the job, and nice to give the old pistol some exercise for a change. Found this glitch at the start, looks like a slime trail type of thing:


Map 02

Of the massive toilets fame. I was a bit disappointed at first when I found the choice of 3 doors at the start was actually a choice of 1 door, and the design seems very chunky and basic in the first few rooms, but gets better as you go on. My favourite thing was the secrets (they are signposted pretty clearly on automap but I think thats fine in this case as there are no other indications), especially the optional outdoor area which accounts for about a quarter of the map.

Map 03

I think I played an earlier version of this map ages ago, it seems to have improved since then. I like all the small crumbling detail dotted around, gives it a lived in kind of look. And the change from narrow corridors to open outdoors is nice. I did bump my head getting the invisibility secret, maybe that alcove could be a little taller. Not massively difficult so far, even with a fatty and a spider. I did enjoy taking out a whole troup of chaingunners though.

Map 04

This had an interesting look and nice large room near the start, after that came the corridors of bumpy floor and enormous protruding light fittings that kept getting in the way of both myself and the monsters (poor baron couldn't even get past them). The map didn't really do the monsters many favours, allowing some easy escapes and doorways to mow stuff down through. As with a lot of these early maps the route through it doesn't give much scope for deviation, thats just my personal taste though. I always enjoy a map that gives you more than one door to open, and most of the time I'm finding all but one of them are locked.

Map 05

I really enjoyed this one, much more of a doom 1 type of experience with the freeflowing interconnected abstract layout and such a choice of routes that I stumbled into the exit without seeing half of it and had to play it again. Great stuff, no complaints.

Map 06

Like map 02 this is greatly improved by finding the secrets, giving you beefier weaponry and a touch more exploration and fighting. The design is quite blocky, nice use of barrels though. Also the first map to give me concerns for my health after a couple of unlucky revenant hits.

Map 07

This is the first map to kill me, and where I started saving as well, mainly due to the first half of the map having no armour and only a berserk for health, which I mistakenly thought was there for punching stuff and just picked up. Then a couple of unlucky hitscan shots later i was dealing with a baron and hellknight with only a shotgun, not difficult in itself, but boring enough to make me run ahead to look for better weapons and bump into some more hitscan bullets. There was no recovering from that. Second go and playing more conservatively I faired better. The armour does eventually come, and shortly after it another one which I didn't end up needing. Plenty of health around too after a certain point. The difficulty goes back up again though in the sneaky room of bridges, that rev trap is quite nasty when you aren't quite sure where to run. The final baron and hellknight combo, again with only shotgun was a bit of a chore, I hate fighting barons with peashooters. Looks quite nice this map, cool use of lighting variation, and interesting areas to fight in. Slight glitch with this post:


Map 08

This is a cool looking map, really nice use of lighting, particularly like the dark crate maze. It also feels nice to explore, and has some nice easy to find secrets. Lots of other neat visual touches of broken things, and the music really helps give it atmosphere. I have to say though, it felt like I was being tooled up for a fight that never happened. There was a ton of ammo and health dotted around in the final area, but I'd already killed everything there (the 3 spiders I had taken out earlier from the balcony with chaingun quite easily, I don't think they could even shoot me from that angle).

Map 09

So much fun that I can easily forgive the fact that its just one long corridor full of meat. Nice use of archviles, not sure why the doorway into the room they appear in is monster blocked though? Bit of a stealth exit, also weird that you get the secret plasma rifle after everything is already dead. Not that is was really needed though. Could maybe do with making the monster closets hidden on automap.

[plums]

Bah, it's a good thing someone's catching those slime trails mouldy, I opted to play in GZDoom and so errors like that don't show up. I guess I should go to PrBoom+ but honestly I'm as concerned with having fun as I am with spotting bugs here! :P

MAP23: Whaaaat's this? Continuity?! In all seriousness it's a great deconstruction of a base level, made all the more interesting by basing it on that previous level. I'm not sure where the other levels in between fit into it, but no matter. Lots of fun situations, ammo was quite tight for a lot of it.

http://i.imgur.com/9xZRG68.png
Funny little thing sticking out here, can actually be climbed over.

http://i.imgur.com/R2D6Tny.png
Could maybe align the silver upper textures?


MAP24: Epic scale level, though I found the gameplay kind of tedious. Mostly there was a lot of running around, taking potshots at whatever I could, until I'd carved out a few places where it was safe to stop moving. Perhaps I would enjoy it more if I cared about time at all. In any case I really admire the architecture.

Some pretty hard-to-find secrets here, I didn't find half of them until I'd killed pretty much everything, but they're quite powerful too so it's understandable.

http://i.imgur.com/JfMmDcv.png
Stone sides of doors not aligned. I think there's a few places like this, I only grabbed the one shot though.

http://i.imgur.com/hEDIXWD.jpg
Bit of flat bleeding. Missing an upper texture or something here, where I'm shooting the plasma bolt.

http://i.imgur.com/jngqMYC.png
These lost souls never got released. A quick peek in DB shows that the sectors with tags 28 & 29 don't have teleport destinations.

[mouldy]

plums said:

http://i.imgur.com/9xZRG68.png
Funny little thing sticking out here, can actually be climbed over.

I am also curious as to what the hell that is. I'm testing with zdoom myself, just cos its what I usually play with.

[Demon of the Well]

Okay, so I'm wanting to play 31 and 32, but I still can't figure out how to lower the last of those three blocking tech panels in map 15. A switch in the soulsphere secret seems to remove one of them, and the switch involved in the computer map secret seems to eliminate another, but none of the other secrets I can reach (5/6 is the best I've been able to do) have switches in them, and I'm beginning to suspect that secret 6 of 6 is actually inside the secret exit itself. It occurred to me that maybe that last panel is a timed thing in some way, but the theory so far hasn't panned out, and I don't think there's enough clearance under the roof of the tunnel to get vile-jumped over it in the highly unlikely case that you bring the guy from the lift down with you and he somehow survives the cyberdemon shenanigans.

Any hints?

(Yes, I know I could just warp to where I want to go, and in fact I already have to look at the start rooms a bit, but humor me!)

[NuMetalManiak]

plums, I have GZDoom v.1.4.8. an older version than yours. I don't even know if that "end sector" setting exists in my version.

And just to be clear, the buttons are supposed to be for extra decoration, they don't do anything and are not supposed to be climbed upon.

[plums]

Demon of the Well said:

Any hints?

http://imgur.com/a/UjLw2

4 pictures, the 4th gives it away completely.

[kildeth]

Ok, time to start making some comments.

MAP01: Outpost

This map is just perfect as it is. I have no complaints, except I believe it lacks a deathmatch component, which should be added in before final release as this map would be particularly good for it I say given its small size.

MAP02: Administration Center

It is fine, except I don't like the way the texture on this door repeats.



Said door should really be placed in a shallow alcove instead of being flush with the wall like that. Give the alcove a lower ceiling than the surrounding room and the texture repeating problem will be solved.

I also failed to get a perfect item score on this map. Perhaps I missed something minor like a health bonus, otherwise there might be something stuck somewhere the player can't reach which is affecting the item scoreboard during intermission, which would be annoying.

MAP03: Water Treatment Plant

I've already expressed my thoughts on this map. The redundant room which is now just a redundant door to nowhere should be put back in the map as a secret that gets activated from afar. Inside the secret could be something fun like an early Plasma Rifle.

[Demon of the Well]

plums said:

http://imgur.com/a/UjLw2

4 pictures, the 4th gives it away completely.

Thanks plums, I got it from the first picture. Just knowing the general area was enough. I guess I fell for the red herring armor helmet(s) completely, must've checked that alcove a million times, and looked at the others on the map, but never zoomed in far enough to see that tiny knothole. Good work finding it, yourself.

[plums]

Welcome. To be honest I didn't even realize it required finding other secrets until I read your post, since I'd already got them by the time I got down there. I saw the panel, looked around a bit, found the right spot, and off I went thinking "huh, easy enough." :p

For better or worse, having MAP15 fixed as the only spot to get to the secret level means knowing when it's time to start combing over walls and things.

[kildeth]

More commentary...

MAP04: Factory Factor

All seems fine to me. There was a monster closet I couldn't open but perhaps I just didn't trip a linedef right or something.

MAP05: Hazard Facility

My map. Someone complained that it was a bit easy, so I've posted up a new version in the development thread which adds a baron and a few hell knights to the exit room instead of the pinkies. If this isn't enough, I guess I could add a revenant to the exit room (although I'd rather not as I like things how they are), or this map could be switched with 'Factory Factor' which appears to have a much higher monster count across all difficulty settings, as well as seeming longer and less compact than this one.

MAP06: Sewage Processing

All good, except there were some weird flat changes in a region with a very flat floor which kinda gives an unsightly effect. Perhaps more floor height variation is needed if the flats are gonna change like this:

[Demon of the Well]

Onwards, cont.

FDAs #5, maps 21-23.

Map 21 - Well, it certainly makes an impression. A bizarre map, about the best thing I can say for it is that the 2.5-second attention span it shows for most of its aesthetic/gameplay concepts effectively communicates that Nova's Hell has something of a propensity for mindfuckery (an impression thus far borne out by later Hell maps I've played). Despite generally reasonable alignment, it's eye-scaldingly ugly, both in terms of concept (e.g. texture/thematic combos that make Sandy Petersen seem very staid and conservative in comparison) and execution (all sorts of anomalies, like the forward parts of the initial building rendering into/out of existence from different viewpoints due to the way the final fenced-in setpiece is implemented, the gate in that same area scrolling up into the sky, the boss brain texture used as a lavafall substitute, etc.). There are definitely people that like this kind of reeling, Troma-esque presentation, but I'm not one of them, for whatever that's worth. It's also 100% beat-you-over-the-head-with-the-fact linear, and cramped as hell with perfunctory combat--usually just a handful of assorted monsters tossed into small rooms to be mowed down. I see more of an actual gameplay concept in that final area, but it's not fun to play, moreso without the benefit of mouselook to help shoot stuff in the deep stair-trenches. Even though I find both secrets, some of the monsters go missing....I'm not sure if they all wandered around to the soulsphere secret from the other side of the building like that one sarge did, or if some of them didn't teleport in somewhere, or what. This is rather a mess, I must be honest. It's kind of a novel mess, but a mess nonetheless. Not really sure what you could do to improve it without a total overhaul.

Map 22 - Very strange map, underscored by a very strange music track. The endless blank, sterile silver cracking away to reveal classic redstone/lava Inferno works well enough, but the little bits of DooM furniture and small spots of hyperdetail (e.g. the console power chords) on what is otherwise often an aesthetic non-entity is disconcerting. And what's with that single spot of ceiling light texture in one random spot in the start room? It's the sort of presentation where I'm not sure if some of what I'm seeing is intended or oversight. It distinguishes itself from an action standpoint as well, I reckon this is more of an out-and-out 'miser' genre map, with a rather tight ammo/health balance...most of the encounters aren't very hard, but there isn't a lot of room for mistakes or cavalier gunfire. Causing infighting is probably mandatory to some degree here, at least if you don't find some secrets--I only found the soulsphere, maybe it would have been different if I'd found some others (never even looked at the automap in this one). Pardon my slowness in killing the cyberdemon, I eventually start trying to jump onto his platform with him in order to get a better angle, but the jump appeared unmakeable to me, so I eventually give up, kill him in an undramatic way, and leave.

Map 23 - This also appears to be broken in complevel 2. Upon acquiring the yellow skull and returning to what was once the main hub of the original Teleportarium, there are sounds of an infinitely-moving platform and a very bizarre-looking step-texture blemish on one side of the central dais holding the sphinctereye slab, and no further progress can be made (so I commit suicide). I'm not sure if my experience with the soulsphere secret was a feature or a bug, but I'm inclined to guess 'bug', since I was able to trigger the secret while unable to reach the sphere--my guess is that it's simply 'floating' by accident, like that one armor helmet way back in map 04 that I probably forgot to mention. Other than that, while I wasn't particularly impressed with Teleportarium itself, this map is much more effective, ironically because it takes the angle of subverting something that previously seemed so plain and straightforward. Still not very hard (although I play kind of badly in this demo, especially vs. lost souls for some reason) and still pretty basic as far as fights go, but it wins out on atmosphere, and I would say is ultimately a much more effective stab at the same 'linear sideshow' angle that map 21 seemed to take.

[kildeth]

Demon of the Well said:
Map 21 - Well, it certainly makes an impression. A bizarre map, about the best thing I can say for it is that the 2.5-second attention span it shows for most of its aesthetic/gameplay concepts effectively communicates that Nova's Hell has something of a propensity for mindfuckery (an impression thus far borne out by later Hell maps I've played). Despite generally reasonable alignment, it's eye-scaldingly ugly, both in terms of concept (e.g. texture/thematic combos that make Sandy Petersen seem very staid and conservative in comparison) and execution (all sorts of anomalies, like the forward parts of the initial building rendering into/out of existence from different viewpoints due to the way the final fenced-in setpiece is implemented, the gate in that same area scrolling up into the sky, the boss brain texture used as a lavafall substitute, etc.). There are definitely people that like this kind of reeling, Troma-esque presentation, but I'm not one of them, for whatever that's worth. It's also 100% beat-you-over-the-head-with-the-fact linear, and cramped as hell with perfunctory combat--usually just a handful of assorted monsters tossed into small rooms to be mowed down. I see more of an actual gameplay concept in that final area, but it's not fun to play, moreso without the benefit of mouselook to help shoot stuff in the deep stair-trenches. Even though I find both secrets, some of the monsters go missing....I'm not sure if they all wandered around to the soulsphere secret from the other side of the building like that one sarge did, or if some of them didn't teleport in somewhere, or what. This is rather a mess, I must be honest. It's kind of a novel mess, but a mess nonetheless. Not really sure what you could do to improve it without a total overhaul.

Off topic but have you tried out the first map of Evil Unleashed by Xaser? That was a mindfuck far beyond MAP21 in this wad.

[plums]

MAP25: another visual feast, this one has an extremely interesting layout and nonlinear gameplay. I really liked it. I'm playing on software mode now in case it helps me find more errors, but with this level I want to go back to GL just to look at it a bit, since it's so nice. A demonic, blood-soaked kind of nice anyhow.

Pretty hard, but also a lot of health if you can find it. Interestingly I found the cyberdemons to be among the least threatening part of the map, but they still serve a purpose. I'd love to see some speedruns of this level, since it looks like you can just rush straight to the exit if you know where to go.

I think this map will probably play much easier continuously, where the BFG will beat many of your traps without much trouble, but that's the nature of a megawad I suppose.

http://i.imgur.com/7ZHd9p3.png
I found the cell pack secret. I did not find a way out afterwards though.

http://i.imgur.com/5QjP5dn.png
Normally it's fine to leave bricks unaligned but having two divisions so close together looks odd.

[mouldy]

plums said:

I'd love to see some speedruns of this level, since it looks like you can just rush straight to the exit if you know where to go.

heh. Here's a 28 second run:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/3ylab8thgy3u0ld/nova25-mouldy2.lmp

Not sure where that secret cell pack is, think dobu added that when he was doing the enemy placement so I'll leave it for him to sort out.

[Demon of the Well]

kildeth said:

Off topic but have you tried out the first map of Evil Unleashed by Xaser? That was a mindfuck far beyond MAP21 in this wad.

You mean 'Logos Anomaly', from his Lost Episode? Yeah, that map's weird, from swiss cheese windowframes to the big fleshgrid room. Hell, a lot of the maps in that episode are weird. My favorite was called 'Carrol Street Station' or something close to that--the big, convoluted sandbox map that starts out eerily empty but then floods with enemies once you reach a certain point.

[plums]

Pretty good mouldy! Looks like shaving a few seconds off is quite possible.

The cell pack secret is here, behind the bloody wall:
http://i.imgur.com/mrvH314.png


MAP26: The Sandy Petersen style map of Nova? Didn't like it as much as the other one from joe-ilya. It also seems easier and uses lower-tier items/monsters compared to previous maps, so I suspect someone carrying gear from previous levels will just blaze right through it. I guess that's another Petersen thing though, heh.

I have no idea how to get the backpack secret, even after looking at the map in DB. I can't see tags on that sector anywhere. The rocket launcher secret is weird since it looks like an empty room; I'd suggest maybe putting in a health bonus or something?

http://i.imgur.com/tZZWTez.png
Despite me saying it was easy, this switch trap is one of the harder moments of the wad so far. Would have helped if I'd gotten the soulsphere I guess. (I figured it out later.)

http://i.imgur.com/4G61fir.png
I appreciate not being able to fall into this lava, but it might look better with a grate on it.

http://i.imgur.com/8JIJCPq.png
OK, this... thing. Not sure what it's supposed to be, and took me a long while before I figured out it's a switch that I need to hit. Normally such a strange construction would stand out, but in a visually wonky level like this one I didn't think much of it at first.

http://i.imgur.com/3eJF6f4.png
Door is off centre. Maybe intentional, looks bad though.

http://i.imgur.com/XdnDrck.png
http://i.imgur.com/aT0zolQ.png
http://i.imgur.com/w3Eajth.png
Lots of weird alignment all over the place, but it looks especially noticeable on the marble textures.

http://i.imgur.com/36Riy1I.png
Small slime trail here, really stands out because of the difference in colours.

http://i.imgur.com/maoikNM.png
Another texture alignment oddity.

http://i.imgur.com/PGks9Mc.png
And another, for both sides of this door.

http://i.imgur.com/rsD95J6.png
These lost souls never got out. Looking at the map in DB, I don't see how they're supposed to, even.

[Veinen]

Demons! Wait, no, just demos I'm afraid. Full on FDAs too for a change.

Map23: Backwards Teleportarium with a hellish twist, I like this concept. Looks very nice and definitely has an ominous atmosphere. I believe the HOM in the lift that takes you two floors down has been mentioned already but no harm pointing it out once more. It's hard not to notice. Gameplay is decent, although not very difficult. Somehow I still manage to die near the start but that's beside the point. And yes, with cl2 you can't finish the map. Suicide was my solution as well, though after embarassingly having trouble to even do that heh. Pretty good overall, the visuals themselves are enough to make it rather memorable.

Map24: This was fun. Large sandbox map with plenty of bad guys to kill and plenty of nooks and crannies to explore. Don't let the high monster count fool you though, this isn't very hard because of monster blocking lines cutting the sharpest teeth off the combat. I for one would have found it hilarious if a huge monster horde could have just followed you almost everywhere. Free the Cacos at least if nothing else, please? Nice visuals and pretty unique actually, don't remember anything in particular that would resemble this kind of grand antique outdoorsy style. The demo is a FDA but rather lengthy and features lots of running around so watch at your own risk.

Map25: Such an awesome map, one of my favorites in this wad for sure. Non-linear to the maximum and it's indeed possible to just get out immeadiately. You shouldn't though because it looks and plays great. Not extremely difficult but fitting for a late mapslot anyway and it sure managed to keep me interested throughout. I encounter a blind & deaf Arach very early in the FDA, how is that even possible? Also I'm pretty sure that's Rebellion in Dreamland by Gamma Ray that I'm hearing in the background heh. And did someone say a speedrun? Included one in the zipfile, 0:19 with a different route.

[plums]

MAP27: Ouch. For such a small level, that was pretty brutal. Despite finding some useful secrets early on, there's no escaping that cyberdemon.

http://i.imgur.com/C4HaH7N.png
I'm really not sure what the point of this lift setup is, and why you can't just lower the lift from the floor.

http://i.imgur.com/Lf8q7WE.png
Fairly detailed map, so these diamonds as lit areas looked a bit rough.

http://i.imgur.com/Zyq0nuA.png
Minor texture thing on the step texture.

I'll check that run out later Veinen, will probably watch a lot of your FDAs too, once I'm done playing this. 3 more to go!

[mouldy]

Veinen said:

And did someone say a speedrun? Included one in the zipfile, 0:19 with a different route.

haha bloody excellent. God knows what was wrong with that arachnotron, think he just fell asleep.

[NuMetalManiak]

Demon of the Well said:

Map 22 Pardon my slowness in killing the cyberdemon, I eventually start trying to jump onto his platform with him in order to get a better angle, but the jump appeared unmakeable to me, so I eventually give up, kill him in an undramatic way, and leave.

The cyber platform lowers like a regular lift from every angle.

[plums]

MAP28: Ow.

Ok, that was hard. I think I racked up more deaths in that map than all the previous ones combined. A little too intense for me on UV from pistol start I think, but I figured I'm this far, I might as well stay the course.

Looked gorgeous as always, perhaps a little less so than MAP25 just because the focus was on a lot of open spaces. And the most poorly-organized library I've ever seen. I mean it was fine for gameplay, but I sure wouldn't want to try to find a book in there.

No secrets? There were a few areas that definitely could have been marked, like the whole red key area for one. Or that soulsphere off of the ledge.

No real faults here. It's possible I missed some things due to focusing on surviving, though it's clear this map has had a good deal of polish.

http://i.imgur.com/ZZZSDrG.png
Not sure if it's intentional but the start of this map was quite reminiscent of Map 29 in Doom 2.

http://i.imgur.com/XbzYmwG.png
Bit of a texture alignment thing under that torch. Opposite side is the same.

http://i.imgur.com/WDLyLyx.png
That imp that the crosshair is on, and the one on the other pillar, didn't seem to do anything but stand there for the whole level, even when it came time for me to cross over there.

http://i.imgur.com/V5AZNZF.png
A slime trail here. Very visible in game.

http://i.imgur.com/mGzY3vI.png
Bringing up the issue of texture tiling and "limit removing" here, like in map 17. I'm sure there are other examples in the wad too. Again, if it's decidedly not an issue, I don't want you to think I'm insisting that it gets changed.

http://i.imgur.com/XX9ja1b.png
If there was a weak spot in this map for gameplay, it's this ledge here. It was really beneficial for me to just hang out here for a while and encourage monster in-fighting. This was also kind of boring though. In a more conservative source port, I wouldn't have even been able to leave this way, though of course there are other paths to go.
Don't know if there's a fix for that, the map is strong enough regardless.

http://i.imgur.com/sNd81kF.png
Another weak-ish spot: spent a long time lowering the lift and punching out imps one at a time, until that area was largely clear.
Normally I wouldn't resort to such boring tactics, but on a map like this I tend to go after any advantage I can give myself.

[Arjak]

@ Demon of the Well: Yep, Map 06 and 20 are both my maps. They're actually my second and third maps ever. My first map was a stand-alone called Caves of Hell (coh.zip in the archive) and not part of any project, then I joined this project and made Sewage Processing, and eventually Castle Bloodletting, which I feel is my best work to date. I also did a section of Map 30, but I'm not as proud of that one.

I really enjoyed watching your demo of Castle Bloodletting. I suck at playing Doom, so being able to see a better player than myself go through it brought a special joy to my heart. I loved watching you trying to figure out the secrets.

As far as the red key room, originally it was just the Archvile, but someone complained that that was too easy, so I added the chaingunners later. I had no idea that trap would be so powerful until I saw your demo. I usually play in God Mode during testing because I suck so bad, so seeing it work so well that you classify it as a 'dick-trap' in your post made me really happy. It really makes my day when someone praises my work, so seeing you talk positively about some of the traps I made makes me feel like a million bucks.

I know about that weird lighting glitch in the upstairs section, I have no idea what causes that or how to fix it. I am planning to take another look at the map soon and fix some things that bother me, so I'll do what I can.


@ plums: I chose the title I did because I wanted something that sounded epic, or at least over the top. I'm planning to fix some things about this map before release, so I'll definitely fix those secrets, among other things.


@ Veinen: I've never been very good at detailing. I have trouble coming up with clever uses for textures and mixing them in ways that look pleasing. I'm glad that you liked my Archvile placement. They were always the monster that I loved to hate, so I guess I have a special appreciation for how they work, and therefore, know how to use them effectively.

I watched your demo, and I laughed when you just grabbed the red key and ran. For a moment, I didn't think you would even go back! I'm pretty sure I called you a chicken at that point. :P

[plums]

Arjak said:

@ plums: I chose the title I did because I wanted something that sounded epic, or at least over the top.

Fair enough!


MAP 29: Just about relaxing after the last map. Still a nice little level though. Great work on the castle tower, it looked really impressive even if it's purely decorative.


http://i.imgur.com/yacseME.png
http://i.imgur.com/RJw8DVs.png
On the rocket launcher side area, some of the stone is actually damaging.

http://i.imgur.com/wxy3IDO.png
What's up with this automap?

So many secrets, seemed unnecessary to mark every platform around the moats as a secret. Another contrast with the last level, hah.