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blob1024

don't laugh: any girl playing doom?

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not looking for my soulmate here obviously xD
but I wondered, because I was reading about Romero's and that girl who won against him... Also, in the DSDA player list I guess there's just one female-sounding name "Natalya Shilyaeva"
But seems like she was active just ages ago (even got a couple CN records back then). so, were/are there other women playing fps, and especially so old ones?

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blob1024 said:

Natalya Shilyaeva


Send her to my house. PM me and I'll tell her how to get here.

EDIT: Almost forgot to say, some of her demos are pretty cool, especially the ones from AV.

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blob1024 said:

so, were/are there other women playing fps, and especially so old ones?

They probably don't come much older than the Wolf3D community's Lakota Bucksnort, who must be approaching 90 if she's still around.

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129thVisplane said:

Me.

My friend used to play it as well (we sometimes played Invasion UAC4 on ZDaemon) but, unfortunately, she now likes nothing but My Little Pony.


not being a native speaker probably don't allow me to get the pony-thing; unless you really refer to the cartoon? :p
for how long have you been playing by the way? I doubt its a "new interest" is it?

MFG38 said:

There would be nothing cooler than a badass Doomer chick as a girlfriend.

well.. yea xD

yea natalya's Av demos are cool

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blob1024 said:

not being a native speaker probably don't allow me to get the pony-thing; unless you really refer to the cartoon? :p
for how long have you been playing by the way? I doubt its a "new interest" is it?


Yeah, referring to the cartoon. I don't watch it myself, though.

I play Doom since I was 3 years old, however I only really started playing without cheats around the age of 13.

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129thVisplane said:

I play Doom since I was 3 years old, however I only really started playing without cheats around the age of 13.

Man I'm so glad I only learned of cheat codes late. Instead of cheating, I was playing on I'm Too Young To Die, hey.

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There are esselfortium's chicks hanging around. Well, were, until he banned one of them. :(

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My (ex-)girlfriend I got into Doom pretty quickly. She loves FPS's but sucks at them...luckily, Doom has ITYTD, so she can have fun with a shooter for once.

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One name comes to mind. Lisa Moore who was a very avid player and
mapper back in the day although calling her a Doom chick might be
a bad choice.

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I never got the point of such threads on this forum or on forums of other hobbies I have (R/C models, electronics, programming, audio/video etc.): it's a well-known fact that "techie" stuff tends to be a sausage fest, both at the professional and at the hobby level.

OK, video games as of recently also have a "fashion statement" element to them, and there are entire categories of games aimed at the "casuals" and even specifically aimed at females, but would you call e.g. some chavette playing Farmville a "gamer"? Or some valley girl playing Wiifit?

Sorry y'all, but you DO know that playing Doom puts you straight into the "sausage-fest" section of the big party that is gaming, the one with the unpopular kids, don't you?

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Doom has it's fair share of female players. Interesting enough, a fair share of transgender peeps as well!

Maes is right, though, it's kind of a given that any given techie hobby is going to be dominated by men--but I'd argue it's only because it's been long emphasized that girls "don't do" things like that. This makes the feminist in me rage, but whatevs. What you have between your legs doesn't preclude your interests or abilities (for the most part)--Just wish that ideology was widely practiced and accepted.

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Nomad said:

Interesting enough, a fair share of transgender peeps as well!


Chu and Yuki off the top of my head, there will be more. I was immediately going to mention them in response to the original post, but without going out of my way to ask either of them how they prefer to be identified it seems a little rude.

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Doomworld: where the men are men (in the loosest sense of the word), children are obvious (because they'll throw a fit sooner or later), and women/girls are transgendered (or soon will be).

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Maes said:

and women/girls are transgendered (or soon will be).

There are a few MTF trans in Doomworld, but not any FTM AFAIK.

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I wonder how many of the well-known trolls in Doomworld's history were/are women.

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Zed said:

I wonder how many of the well-known trolls in Doomworld's history were/are women.


My guess is zero, but I have no evidence to back this up either way!

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but I'd argue it's only because it's been long emphasized that girls "don't do" things like that. This makes the feminist in me rage, but whatevs. What you have between your legs doesn't preclude your interests or abilities (for the most part)--Just wish that ideology was widely practiced and accepted.


Well if it makes you feel any better, I'm probably as frustrated as you are... from seeing people like you spout off this nonsense again and again in front of the endless amount of scientifical evidence we get of the many differences between men and women. Because it's not like *I* am even looking for it, and yet every week here's a new study showing how brain wiring differs between men and women, here's a new behavioral experiment with no relation to gender in its objectives showing completely different results from gender to gender, and that's on top of the enormous wealth of data, from biology to sociology, showing us how our bodies differ chemically and the resulting behavior changes or how our representation of ourselves shapes our attitude, and all of that is on top of, as a "feminist" parent, letting your own toddler, which you obviously raised fairly, pick his own toys given a set of choices, and seeing the little boy pick the truck and the little girl pick the doll.

But of course the news are filled with lies from the patriarchy which exerces total control over the media (except Tumblr, bastion of the free thinkers). History? Been rewritten from that same patriarchy for sure, and all those scientists must have been corrupted and bought. As for your kid picking the "wrong" toy, obviously he must have been influenced by what he has seen on TV despite your best efforts, perverting his innocent androgyne mind. And if he doesn't watch TV yet, uh, well, let's close our eyes and pretend what just happened above didn't happen. La-la-la-la-la-la!

All that because a bunch of drooling morons are unable to think in anything but absolutes. There's a social gender bias? Every difference in behavior between genders must then be caused by our society! There can't be any complementary explanation, because we like our world black and white! One pundit made a demonstrably wrong comment about what women can and can't do? Every argument claiming women differs in any way from men in abilities is wrong! My little boy actually picked the doll? Every little boy is as likely as every little girl to pick the doll! No, don't show me your fancy charts and statistics, these mean nothing compared to personal conviction born out of rejection of opposite but equally stupid values!

Bullshit like this actually impedes positive change, because muddling facts with garbage makes the implementation of any solution nothing but guesswork. Let's spend a few billions making this profession more "women-friendly"! And then a few years later, when the gender distribution still isn't anywhere close this magical 50% we agree is the only sensible goal, it's because we still haven't put enough effort into making this profession women-friendly. Because if the data doesn't fit your theory, make the data fit your theory! Meanwhile, real problems like income disparity in professions most women actually *want* to do remain unadressed. "But, but," I hear you say, "we should do that as well, we should do both!". Except resources are finite, the effort you spend on useless bullshit is effort that can't be spent on positive changes. So bravo, sir, congratulations on being part of the problem you claim to be against. Keep fighting the good fight.

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Just going to throw this out there: I don't have enough fingers to count the number of female friends and acquaintances that have told me they didn't pursue a field of interest because somewhere along the line they were convinced that they shouldn't or can't because it's not ladylike or that girls "just don't do that."

I'm not saying it's "patriarchy," but you can't claim that societal influences do not have a sizable impact on what interests or hobbies a person has.

By the way, I'm not sure how to feel about the angry projection you're putting on me just for relating to being a femnist. I guess I'll retreat to my man-hating feminazi outpost and report that our advances aren't working and should double up on our efforts.

[edit]Actually, I'm going to go ahead and point this out before this thread undoubtedly gets helled:

Your entire post, while pretty factual, is little more than a strawman. It does not represent my position at all, and indeed really is entirely irrelevant of a response to my post. What I said was that gender does not preclude a person's hobbies and interests--what it sounds like you interpreted is that I meant that gender doesn't determine interests, which is not the case. If we take a look at the definition of "preclude," it means "prevent from happening; make impossible."

Which indeed, while gender may very well partly determine the way someone's mind is wired and thus somewhat narrow how that person acts and behaves, it does not necessarily prevent them from acting outside those parameters.

I appreciate your fervor, as I too am disgusted by much of the ignorance present in the "battle of the sexes" as we might call it--but let's keep the friendly fire to a minimum, eh?

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i was reading an article (that my fiance showed to me) about differences between men and women, and it summarized that women generally act based on emotions while men generally act based on logic.

I can see how this may relate to video games as Doom isn't constantly spitting out climaxes of overwhelming fun, (at least to a novice player), there's a lot of parts that could be described as boring if the player doesn't understand it, or if the player dies or something. And to get to the fun parts, you have to work] for them so to speak. To my understanding, men are more attracted to video games like Doom for solving problems. Puzzle-solving to gain powerups, dodging fireballs to stay alive, finding secrets to explore new areas, killing monsters to watch them bleed. And even if we struggle, we enjoy that cause and effect of it, and will go through these obstacles again and again to reach the rewards.

Women on the other hand, while still capable of using logic to perform the tasks, don't always succeed, which leads to the boring part of the game. Having to start over, having to figure out where to go, etc. And as a result, the feeling of boredom overcomes the interest in the rewards, and in turn, direct their attention elsewhere.

That's what I've observed anyway. She won't play Doom unless I'm playing with her, or at least watching her and guiding her where to go. And even then, a level or two is enough for her, and if she dies, forget it. Game is over. The idea that the reward of playing through a level is a harder, larger, and more complicated level does not appeal to her, while I tend to keep my eye on the prize, and look at the entire spectrum and endure boring frustrating parts for the sake of seeing the entire thing through.

I'm not a genius at this kinda stuff so take what I say with a grain of salt, but that's what I understand about men being more attracted to video games than women.

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ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE WARNING:

As far as people I know personally, I've just got:

    1) my sister (loves Tetris and racing games, and nothing else),
    2) my other sister (likes RPGs, survival-type games like Minecraft),
    3) my mother (loves Minecraft, Neverwinter Knights, other RPGs, usually social, but sometimes solo)
    4) my friend's wife (loves The Walking Dead; likes The Sims, Civilization IV/V)
    5) my ex-fiancee (pretty much every genre other than sports, sims, and racers; prefers games that allow one to play a female protagonist)
    6) ex-gf (Megaman and similar; mostly platformers, puzzlers, and adventure games)

    7) other (pretty much everything under the sun, because it's hard to pigeonhole an entire sex/gender)
I have no idea why I took the time to think about and write all that down. I'm not sure what it even shows. Maybe I just wanted to take part in this Hellbound thread.

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Nomad's last post pretty much summed it up for me. There's probably some nature, some nurture. It's often hard to tell which is which, and that's where the guano hits the fan in most of these kind of debates. It's probably true that most men, on average, like to solve puzzles and kill stuff because of their brains and testosterone etc. while women, on average, prefer more social interaction or whatever. On average. So, it doesn't mean that those are hard boundaries by any means, and there shouldn't be. For me, that's the whole point - simply giving people the freedom to express themselves in whatever way they choose, and whether it's because of biology or because of the environment in which they grow up.

People who are adamant to change those environments because of tradition (boys = blue, girls = pink), no problem, I'm all for expanding people's minds but I would like to see more sensitivity towards the fact that most of us are biased and don't like to be told that we're wrong, and with something as complicated as gender, gender roles, gender identity, feminism, sociology, human psychology, neurology and God knows what else you're likely to be wrong somewhere along the line. I prefer just to read a lot about all kinds of stuff and enjoy the ride, and just try to stick to the perhaps naive but mostly effective principle of trying not to hurt anybody.

No, I don't know any female Doomers. I've also noticed that all views on my channel so far have been male.

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I met ToxicFluff at a convention once. There is at least one level for Legacy that she created.

There were some female boxers on TV last night. Several nights before there was this female (Korean maybe) kick boxer beating the heck out of some guy.

As for questioning about females that play Doom, observe which group the particular female tends to use for comparisons at the time the question arises ...
1. Her guy.
2. Her girl friends.
3. The neighbors.

If that group would not approve of playing Doom, then she will likely not play. You can extend this by questioning how much this applies to guys ... (more than you might admit)

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The oldschool deathmatch community had some female players. They would never come here, openly at least, not for the least reason that this thread starts off discussing girlfriends, hotties, etc and then veers wildly off into an unneeded debate about sexism.

When girls can go on the internet and just be treated on equal terms with the guys (and not be a beacon magnet attracting every drooling idiot for miles), maybe you'll see more of them. Until then they'd rather lurk or just not be involved at all.

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